F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
I seem to remember that when John Worth was the Executive Director he ran the whole show and the EC was more of an advisory panel that dealt with rule changes, competition rules and events, etc.
No disrespect to Joyce but it sounds like the ED job has become an office manager, if I understand the above posts correctly.
What happened between the time of John Worth and Joyce that seems to have changed the job description, if in fact it has changed?
Thanks,
Jon

fliers1

No disrepect intended to Joyce, and I don't know if it matters or not, as far as I know she isn't an RC modeler, unlike that of John Worth.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Jon,
Back in the bad old days the AMA EC made recommendations and the ED ran the show. There were N*O* communications with modelers until AFTER the decisions had been made and implemented. That is part of how Muncie came about.

It is much better today, even though there are many of us who feel it has a long way to go before the AMA becomes an open, democratic organization.

Today we have some VP's, AVP's, and AMA Fellows who decide what the average modeler is capable of understanding. In other words, they decide if you are smart enough to hear what they mean before they speak. Or something equally as demeaning like telling fictional tales about you in venues you cannot respond in unless you wail the party line. The disdain for the average modeler shown by some of our AMA "leadership" is enough to make you want to throw up. It sure is enough to make many want new faces on the EC, and maybe we need a few.

I am really afraid that with all the commotion going on, the moves of a select few will drive members away. The ones who try to control communication are high on that short list.

Just my opinion sir.

J_R

Mr. Branaum

Your brush strokes are getting pretty wide. Many of our leaders respond to us, if we will take the time to try to communicate with them.

Just my opinion.

JR

vpresley

My Feedback: (162)

Marc

You advocate a lot of what seem to be your own pet peve's with the AMA. You make statements, and of course a few people will always chime in and say "yeah me too". I have watched all or most of your threads, they are the same. Talk is cheap, like someone said. If your going to talk all this trash, you need to make that trip to the EC meeting and put up, or shut up. I have not seen enough real or substantial input from a large number of people to even give you any semblance of credibility for what you advocate. Of course there is the other way for a reality check, its called "get elected". But a large majority, of the large mouths in these threads can't or won't, they just sit here and bad mouth, grinding axe's. I believe all your questions could be answered by someone at the AMA, unless of course, you think they all lie to you, you know the conspiracy theory. Have you tried that at all ????????? I bet not. If all else fails, start your own organization, sell insurance and take all these unhappy AMA members with you and see how long it takes for the hate and discontent to start with your running of it. In this day and age, it seems to happen pretty quick. Nothing like reality to wake you up. Of course you will never have my vote, but then im sure your's will never be with the AMA, so we are even on that point.

Vince Presley AMA 7051

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

I sorry but I must have missed something once again, where was it that it states the AMA is suppose to be or ever was, or is going to be a "open, democratic organization" .

mvigod

Vince,

Make it so I can get elected to be President and I will run. Unless I'm in that spot there isn't much I can do to change the AMA right now. Unfortunately the rules of the AMA dictate that I cannot run for the next president election. Change that and I will run, win, fix everything that needs fixing and then resign and find somebody to put in my shoes at the AMA to keep the ship on course once my mission is accomplished.

Going to the EC meeting will likely have little benefit. Even elected VP's cannot achieve their agenda if the good ole boys don't want it. A bystander will have even less effect. Voting in to office those who will make changes for the better eventually will make a difference. Have them repeal the ridiculous rule that states I cannot run in the next election for president and I will put my money where my mouth is. As it stands now if 99% of the entire AMA membership voted for me I couldn't be president. Absurd if you ask me but hey..I always believe in letting the people vote for what they want.


Dave - I believe the 180,000 members if they had their choice for a democratic AMA would vote for such a thing. Few here in the US enjoy "regimes".

JR - It was $10 million to make muncie happen. You say it was an investment but the property values aren't racing upward in that town. They had a $10 million dollar decision. They could have put it in a money market and paid for office space off the interest thrown off that. Now they have an investment that may even be worth less than what they bought it for and the overhead of maintenance and upkeep. All for a property most members will never step foot on. If they wanted investments I don't think they qualify to be making real estate investments as we don't pay our dues to be part of a REIT.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I was reading a 1975 issue of MA the other night, and I THINK there is a gross misinterpretation of the rules, here. You need to qualify to be NOMINATED, but ANYBODY can be a write-in candidate and win.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong...but back it up with research, please.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Yup. The Worth days were something of a benevolent dictatorship. We have worked hard to get away from that. Not all dictators are benevolent...

mvigod

ET - I too would be interested to see if a write in candidate could in fact win right off the bat. If so we are "on"

In the meantime the 2 VP elections leading up to that are the chance to change the council over to some newer thinking and ideas. This is 2003 and not 20+ years ago. All I ask is that the members get what they want and their money is used for the MAXIMUM benefit of the majority.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Once again, I disagee with you completely and totally, and I think you have to educate yourself a lot more before speaking out, but....
I THINK, but do not know, that what has been said here about the nomination and eligibility may be completely wrong...any write in candidate is also eligible. I won't have time to call AMA or anything tomorrow, so let's hope someone else does, or knows the deal with this.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

PS...you should go to Muncie and sit in on an EC meeting. You will find it highly educational, and it will change your mind about many things. I did it, you can too.

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

I don't believe the AMA president has any power to change anything, I don't believe he even has a vote in any decision. He is there as a Guide.

The only power the membership has ever had is to vote in who they want making the decisions on behalf of the HOBBY not specificly what we want. And we also know that many of the decisions made are done so because of LEGAL issues and insurance issues, not what is popular. I think the fact is that 150,000 of the so called 180,000 don't give a rats tail about the AMA or how it spends the money or how much of thier dues goes where, they simply have bought a product and use it how they want, of the other 30,000 or so only about half of them vote, the other half just *****es and complains but have no solutions to any problems. If you really think you can do a better job then you have to start at the bottom, not the top, and prove you have the devotion it takes to be on the EC .

Here is a quote from you.

"I've never wanted to do anything more than get to the field, hang with the guys there and fly or watch them fly. "

I think its going to take a little more than that, so far you have not shown me any reason to think you could do anything better or you have the devotion and motivation to do the job at all.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Well said, Mr. Bowles.
You know, you have to watch out for politicians who have simple and easy solutions to complex problems...because THEY DO NOT WORK.
You know, there was another guy who had a bright sounding answer to everything who ran for AMA Pres, just a few years back. Frank Tiano. His stuff sounded very attractive to a lot of people on the web, a lot of "get rid of the old boy network" stuff, a lot of "do you like heli guys making rules for you aerobat guys?"(they don't), and "it's about time we got rid of the 55 pound weight limit"(you can fly heavier planes, there are just restrictions)...it all sounded great, and like your platform, it was based on totally misinformation, innuendo, inexperience, and plain old baloney.
But you know, if you did an INTERNET SURVEY before the election, he would have won, hands-down. When it came time for the ACTUAL election, the guy was trounced, totally and completely. N

Hossfly

>>>>>>
Easytiger: "I THINK, but do not know, that what has been said here about the nomination and eligibility may be completely wrong...any write in candidate is also eligible"
>>>>>>>
D Bowles: "I don't believe the AMA president has any power to change anything, I don't believe he even has a vote in any decision. He is there as a Guide.

J_R

Horrace

Any comments on the ED position or John Worth?

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

Horrace

"Guides are those that lead and/or direct another's way. The "guide" can -- IMO -- always direct the path, regardless of any claim otherwise. The AMA President CAN VOTE if he so elects to do so. The vote to break a tie option simply saves the Pres. from having to display his real politics, otherwise he would vote."

But what Leverage to sway a vote does he have, He can't fire anybody, he has no hammer to hit anyone with, he has no power over anyone. If the EC dosn't want what he has suggested he has nothing to force a vote or anything. He alone has no power to do much of anything , the EC has no reason to kiss his ass, so why would anyone feel they had to see things his way.

All he can do is bring his Ideas to the board and explain his reasons for what ever it is. And if its a good Idea it may get passed and if not a good idea it won't.

I perfect example is the 55 lb weight limit , Frank T. if he would have been elected Pres. would have had no power to change the weight rule than you or I have. And he would have nothing over the EC or leader members to vote his way, and they would have nothing to gain by voting his way if they didn't want to.

J_R

Dave

Although you are correct, in that the President does not have any power to change the vote of the other EC members, he does, indeed have considerable power.

He is empowered by the bylaws as the CEO of the AMA. He has all the powers that go with the title. The EC could exert oversight powers over him by parliamentary action, but, save that, he has the power.

He appoints all committees (with the exception of the Nominating Committee which is defined in the bylaws) and their members. Most of the work of the EC is done by committees. He can also dissolve those same committees, without input from anyone. As with any parliamentary group, appointing committee chairmen or appointing one to committee membership is quite a tool. In this respect, he does have the power to fire people, including EC members.

You are correct in the way that Dave Brown conducts himself. He leads the EC. He has quite a personality and can, generally, get the EC to see things his way. He is not so empowered by the bylaws, it is his ability as a leader to do this. The current EC has some very diverse personalities, unlike their image of "Good Old Boys" making decisions by acclamation. Brown manages to lead them to a consensus and the group then takes on the appearance of speaking with one voice.

As you imply, correctly, a maverick COULD have very little affect on the EC. He does, however, have a soapbox, in the form of the web page and the President's column in Model Aviation that he can use to bring pressure from the membership to bear on the EC . Dave Brown uses those tools to "sell" the decisions of the EC to the membership... at least those that read.

JR

J_R

Marc

I have been looking at your comments for a couple of days. It looks to me like the internet equivalent of:

"If you are not going to play the game my way, I am going to take my ball and go home"

JR

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

Thank you JR for the information, And I think you for reading into the AMA futher than most of us ever will, I try to pick a subject each week or so and read though it, I'm sending in my CD application this week. I to see Dave Brown as a Leader and not an Ogre.

J_R

I got a nice note from my friends in Dist VIII reminding me that the EC can also appoint and dissolve committees. The President may not dissolve the EC committees nor the EC dissolve Presidential committees.

JR :spinnyeye

Hossfly

Did they also inform you that Bylaws Art. XIV also -- in the real world -- gives the President the very long leverage pole in the world of politics?

Mr. Bowles, reference your questions concerning the President's power, I relate such an answer as the Marines say about "Semper Fi".
If you know, no explanation is needed. If you don't know, all the explanation in the world will not be enough for you.

Dave Bowles

My Feedback: (7)

Horrice "world of politics" Which World is this, Radio Control world or the real world. What political power would the AMA president have in the real world.

Hossfly

>>>>>>>>
Horrace

Any comments on the ED position or John Worth?

Hossfly

Mr. Bowels!!

Sounds like a question from a true democrat. Not worth acknowledging, much less an answer.