I was talking to some RC friends, who aren't in the AMA, and when I mentioned that I have a membership, they asked if it was the "old-timey R/C club". When I inquired further, they stated that it seemed that the AMA was only associated with the older people who built nothing but scale warbirds and didn't know how to perform any aerobatics past a roll or loop... a bit condescending, yes, but maybe if this is a widespread association (which it may or may not be, I don't know) the AMA should look at it and see what they can do differently.

Another story... some years ago there was a gentleman at a club I was a member at who told me, after watching a few pilots do some post-stall maneuvers, that such maneuvers were never "meant" to happen... what the hell kind of moronic, static and ignorant statement is this? From that logic would follow that airplanes were never "meant" to fly in the first place. Then he stated, proudly, that he was glad the AMA did not approve of "such maneuvers"... I didn't know the AMA did and did not approve certain maneuvers as "legal" and "illegal".

Anyway, it seems that, from what I have read here, and in MA, and elsewhere, the AMA seems to be a "stick-in-the-mud" organization - unable and/or unwilling to make changes. It is my opinion that change is the one good thing that can ever happen to anything or anyone - change = progress.

Starkville Ms, it figures. [&o] Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is terminal. [:'(] Where do these friends of yours come up with such idiotic statements? The AMA is the one that maintains the competition rules. Obviously your friends that can perform maneuvers beyond loops and rolls have never done them in competition where they are judged by AMA standards beyond, "Hey bubba, watch this."

Unfortunately, I run into the same kind of uninformed people here in VA. I'm always trying to correct the record, but then they coume out to the field and........... they see warbirds and gray hair.[:'(]

Good answer, Red.

Your friends' statements come from ignorance and prejudice. All anyone has to do is open a MA and they can see the AMA is much more than an "old timey club" that has restrictions on maneuvers and types of flying. The AMA isn't perfect, but it's a lot more than they think.

As for types of flying, there are only a few rules that address maneuvers and/or equipment, and all are safety-oriented. I do believe the AMA has a rule against touching a model aircraft while in flight.

Maybe it would do them good to attend an AMA Rule Book contest at a nearby club. Or take them to a club where there are a lot of 3D-type planes. Let them watch that! Frankly, it sounds as if their knowledge of model aerobatics is pretty limited. I wonder how much THEY can do in the air.

Maybe this is all in vain, it looks as if they've alrady made up their minds. Sometimes ya just can't fix stupid.

Dr.1

Well, isnt that the actual problem here?
Where do people get their ideas about AMA? Not from AP, CNN or FoxNews, that's for sure.

The friends gotten that OldeTimey idea from somewhere.
And the AMA is hard pressed to get a better image into the minds of the general public. Of course, it is hard to change folks minds about a club they saw 20 years ago full of AARP Warbirders & CL/FF/Rubber.... what other image is being given to them when not at the field? They can pay $5 to get the club they dont like magazine, just to see it full of all types of flying- a few of which are still CL/FF/Rubber and plans for Electric Hughs, Four.10s B24, Curtis BathTub E-Pusher..... and maybe a few pages of Pattern in between the million ads.



--edit spelling

Two issues are mentioned here...it's an "old timer's club" and it "frowns on certain types of flying". Both of these, however, boil down to a simple point of view...that the AMA is comprised of people who've been modeling so long they don't appreciate change and advancement.

Where do people get these ideas about the AMA?

Simple...

AMA members, publications, and events....in short, they get them from the AMA.

Personally...and this is simply one flyer's observations and beliefs...I think the "problem" is fairly simple.

We (the hobby) have reached a rather "intriguing" point in time. Like many hobbies, ours has advanced more in the last 5-10 years than it did in the 50 years prior. Let's face it...model aviation simply did not change drastically from say, 1950-2000 or so. Sure, there were advancements in equipment, technology, and skillsets...but, quite frankly, model airplanes did many of the same things in 2000 as they did in 1950. They were, in large part, built the same way, flown in the same fashion, powered by similar (albeit improved) motors, etc.

Now, this certainly isn't, say, the AMA's "fault". It's not like the AMA "held back the hobby" or anything. MOST hobbies have seen a similar explosion over the last decade or so for one very simple reason...it is easier now to convey and share ideas, discoveries, and tips with fellow hobbiests than it has ever been in human history. Doesn't matter if we're talking about model airplanes, aquariums, or golf...if you want to find out what the best servo, coral, or driver is, it's less than a day's work...whereas it USED to be days, weeks, or even months.

Ok...fine...our hobby has "exploded" in the last decade...so what?

Well...consider who the people are who take an ACTIVE leadership role in the AMA and model aviation. Look through MA some time at the pictures of the various DVP's...or the board members...or a "featured modeler". I have no wish to be rude, but NONE of them are "spring chickens", ok?

Now this isn't a bad thing. A 60 year old man who's been flying model airplanes for 30 years quite likely has more wisdom (about both modeling AND life in general) than, say, a 30 year old who's been flying a Telemaster for 6 months. He quite possibly has more RESOURCES (contacts, net worth, time, whatever) that ALLOW him the opportunity to take on a larger leadership role.

This doesn't change at the local level either. FREQUENTLY the CD of a contest or CP of a local club are the folks who've been on this Earth a while, and flying model airplanes nearly as long. And, again, it stands to reason that this should be so.

Now...don't get me wrong...by NO means am I saying that young and/or new flyers can't be effective leaders, or shouldn't run events, or be president of a club. ABSOLUTELY they can and should when and where the opportunity presents itself. It's simply a FACT that an older flyer may have more free time, or more interpersonal contacts to "get things done", or whatever.

Frankly, many of these folks simply don't WISH to fly the latest greatest ultimate 3d freestyle machine. It's simply not what they enjoy. And that's FINE. It's as acceptable for them to feel that way as it is for me to not enjoy your warbirds, or you to not enjoy my biplanes.

Secondarily, let us remember...this IS still a hobby. it is not encumbant upon these members to learn every new flying style and airplane technology SIMPLY because they lead clubs or run events. They DO have lives, after all.

I mean, ok, sure..perhaps YOU (the general you, not anyone in particular) have taken the time to learn all about...oh...say...3d flying. And you practice and practice and practice and get REALLY good at it. That "old guy who hates 3d" can still build circles around you, ok?

Does that mean he's "better" because he builds and you don't? heck no...no more than it makes you "better" because you fly in a stall and he doesn't.

Ok...so fine. What does all this give us?

Well, you have a hobby that's grown exponentially in a very short period of time. Random John Q. Public sees 102" of brightly colored airplane torque roll 5' off the deck, and goes "wow, that's an awesome toy". And then, guess what...he's exposed to the "public face" of the AMA...which is what?? In general, a group that simply hasn't been willing or able to embrace that technology.

So, guess what: The "cool guys" fly big monster planes down low, and the AMA is a "old fogey club that frowns on aggressive flying"

Despite the fact that the "cool kid" with the 102 QQ Yak has his AMA card hanging on the freq board per AMA guidelines, has 4 different shut off mechanisms because he's concerned about safety, and just yesterday worked radio impound for a local club event....and the fact that John Q. Public didn't happen to see the "old guy's" 33% Edge because he was buddy-boxing a new pilot today, so he didn't bring it out.

These weren't from here, though I see your point.

LOL... Red makes it clear! Also makes arguing futile He is a moderator after all And his inferences to Mississippians stupidity and ignorance supercedes all other views.

It seems, in this forum, if you are from the south you are just too ignorant or stupid to post.

I keep forgetting
Are Miami & San Diego South? Cause it seems most of MS,GA,AL, & LA are more northern than them.
What about poor Hawaii... look how far south they are.

Heaven help you if you're an RC Pilot Penguin.

Hey, I didn't say it!

[link=http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~gcharter/iq.txt]LINK[/link]

All in good fun.

Preface - you don't have to be 60 to have a lot of knowledge in this hobby. As a 41 year old man with +35 years of experience in several different aspects of the sport/hobby, I must tell you - things haven't really changed or if so, they have gotten worse. We were ridiculed and disliked when we were young because we flew better than most. Even today we are "looked down upon" because of our BIG airplanes or the fact we can do things with them that others never dreamt about. I will say that AMA and aviation have given me a lifetime of pleasure, some of its members - nothing but grief. Sail dislikes gas/glow, planks cannot stand helis. It goes on and on. If this is the face we express to members, what face do you think we project to John Q Public? Is it an old face or a new face? I don't know, but I would have to lean toward the OLD FACE of AMA – I liked the ORIGINAL face better.

So - what do we do to change it? I guess more correctly, the first established question and answer is; do we need or want to change it? I would attest that yes we do.

I have always been of a mindset that all that love or have an interest in aviation (full scale or other) should be embraced in our organization. I believe heavily in the EDUCATION aspect of our organization and will honestly tell you that I believe it to be lacking. What does it matter tall or short, black or white, gas, glow, or electric, or the challenge of the breeze? I see "old" folks who scream and complain about electrics and won't have anything to do with them - YET, electric planes are STILL airplanes. I see "young" folks saying you cannot tell me what to do and GAS/GLOW is out and so are you. The selfish, self-centered approach permeates our society not just our organization. It is this we need to change to ensure any positive growth in our organization. Where did all the friendly folk go?

Our organization, our magazines, or local clubs, and our members are the face of AMA. Of these, it is the membership which defines us to the rest of the world. "New" people don't go to our websites or read our magazines - they go to our hobby shops and drive out to our flying fields. Contrary to popular belief - MOST PEOPLE don't even own computers so websites and e-mail are not even in their vocabulary. Do we greet them and encourage them; do we help them or ignore them?

As for RC friend’s ignorance of AMA - perhaps AMA and we (the members) are failing to get the message out! Why do we keep addressing AMA as an insurance company or BIG BROTHER trying to control OUR FUN? -- See the self-centered part above -- it’s about modeling folks, plain and simple. It's about the wonder of watching something take flight. Why should my watching or flying an airplane/helicopter/glider/or kite for that matter be any different - better or worse than yours? If you enjoyed it, I am glad for you. If I could share my enjoyment with you, I am even happier.

In closing - I am not saying everyone in this sport/ hobby is a lost cause. I have met thousands of good people all over this hobby and hope to continue that growth. Most of us are just plain old good people and this is still a great FAMILY hobby. However, there are some who are just plain asses and have louder voices than most. I would really like to see that change and get back to the essentials that brought us all together in the first place. Maybe then our good face will be represented to the John Q's of the world.

I guess your point is stupid people voted for Bush And smart people are for Gore Hmmm...I guess the inventor of the internet is indeed a genius.

Somehow the saying more money than brains seems to fit but since I am from the south I just can’t figure out how.[X(]

I cannot believe you took that bait - . While I know STL likes to through in the North / South thing to rattle some cages, I didn't think you would be the one.

However, when it comes to the first sentence of your reply - well ??? [:'(]

Hey All

In reading RMV's post I read he had friends who fly that aren't AMA members, and these guys had a "SOME WHAT" skewed image of the AMA and and the clubs.

Then the people who responded chose to over look that fact and instead threw discriminatory statements like this

"Starkville Ms, it figures. Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is terminal. Where do these friends of yours come up with such idiotic statements? "

And this

"Obviously your friends that can perform maneuvers beyond loops and rolls have never done them in competition where they are judged by AMA standards beyond, "Hey bubba, watch this.""

And yet another

"Your friends' statements come from ignorance and prejudice"

And how do these NON AMA friends do this

'All anyone has to do is open a MA and they can see the AMA is much more than an "old timey club" that has restrictions on maneuvers and types of flying."

You guys do realize ( I hope) anyone who may be curious about the hobby will go to the Internet first, and they will find these forums (as I did).

As the new person starts posting, someone may mention the AMA, and they will search out info on the AMA.

With the statements I quoted above, what opinion do you think the new person would form?

The more you guys defend the AMA with statements like that, the worst it makes you guys look.


Well that my opinion

Brent

afineman - Indeed !!! shouldn't the organization (meaning its members) promote the hobby?

Donald Sutherland said it best as Oddball - "Always with the negative waves, Moriarity, ALWAYS with the negative waves!."

I live here, but I am not from here. That said, I see his point because I live here. Again, that said, I think it is also a rather stereotypical thing to say concerning Southerners. I have met some whose intellect far exceeds most people save Hawking or others of his ilk. Some of the best RC pilots I have ever seen are also Southerners.

Unfortunately, it is true that the predominant attitude in the South, in my experience (about 20 years worth of it, give or take) is one of ignorance, and it is by choice.

Were he incorrect, I would have debated/argued with him all day, regardless of his board position. I believe as long as discussion remains civil, you can disagree with anyone you want, so long as you support your views.

Ahh, comprehension. Thanks afineman.

The point of my post was to illustrate that many of the non-AMA members I know or have met have a skewed, though not entirely wrong (nor correct), view of the AMA.

Hmm, and Red's from Florida... ?umm? Last time I was there, that was south. It's been 18 years though.... Did Florida move?

I like that link.

We do a heck of a good job of projecting a negative image of the AMA and of ourselves as AMA members (or not) on this forum. I'm pretty much with Kule Kanian on wanting to see all of model aviation unified and respectful of each other as to how we go about having our fun with toy airplanes.

Thank you Jim - we are now two and two become four and so on and so on. Hey, we even seem to have brought north and south together, although I have lived and travelled all over this country including Texas.

What difference does it make what you fly? What difference does it make IF you fly. I would estimate that 70% of my club doesn't even fly anymore, yet they are still members.

My old pappy used to say - if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
AMA, no AMA, member, outlaw - just fly!

Kule, in your thread "Statement and Challenge...", I asked you a question which you have avoided. You haven't quit posting, so I know you are avoiding the question.

Therefore I am left to my own methods of determining an answer. I can wait a few more weeks to really know.

No. Florida is more southerly than most. LOL

While it's true that Florida is more Southerly than most, we have an overflow of Yankee's here. I suppose that since we Southerner's are so stupid, we should return the favor by moving to the North. Naah, we're smarter than that.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1