I have had an AMA membership on and off for the last 10 or so years. During that time, I am sad to say, I really have not understood the benefit of AMA except to say that if I did not have a membership I could not fly at any of the fields in the area. Yes I do get a magazine, but honestly, only a small part of it interest me. I'm not into FF, CL, and many of the other AMA catagories. I guess if I competed I would find some of the information more appealing. I did get this DVD sent to me, only to find out after openinnig it that I now owed, what was it, $19 or something to AMA. Sure would hate to be an AMA familiy membership with kids opening stuff like this. No telling what I would owe?

It appeared after trying to digest the small print that if anything were to happen, insurance wise, that my current home and such insurance is actually looked at to pay any problems first, then if there is anything else not covered, AMA insurance may step in. Please correct me if this is wrong, cause I would really like to know.

What I do know is the AMA membership cost keeps going up. It seems like the beaurocracy gets bigger, mostly with old farts like me. I wonder how kids can join if their parents have no interest in the hobby at these rates. Personally I don't have any issues with the AMA. But competition is good. And it appears the AMA has none. Not the American way would you say.

If you really want to increase the numbers in this hobby, you give the AMA some competition. New ideas, new blood, new thinking, new members with alternative groups at every field.

Or you keep the status quo and I get more flying time.

Boy, are you going to get it! I spect Red has a formed response by now.

I can say I agree with your points. I hate to keep on hammering the AMA magazine, but it's going right back to where it was a couple years ago. If your not into CL or FF and did not know any other type of flying was going on you would think that all other types of flying were on the fringe. Like R/C.

I read the last MA in about 20 minutes. That's probably 10 minutes longer than it should have taken. Hey they did a fairly good job on the ProBro event. When did that happen, middle of last summer? You can open up any other R/C magazine or should I say flying magazine and you would be lucky to even find anything about FF or CL. These guys that produce this fine magazine are really with it.

What really tears me up about the articles in MA is the lag time. What I mean is they are reporting on events that happened 4 and 5 months ago or longer. It's a good thing this crew does not produce your local news paper. You would be reading about the gas prices this up coming July 4 2006. I did mean 2006.

As for the insurance issue that is a total joke. It makes me think of comparing your auto insurance to your home owners insurance. When was the last time your Home Owners picked up what happened in your car and then your auto insurance kicked-in and picked up the balance. That insurance thing is just a hook, plain and simple.

The whole insurance and Magazine thing reminds me of the old bait and switch. Look at all you get for 58 bucks. Then after you join reality kicks in. Kind of reminds me of a used car salesman I used to know or should I say rather not known.

With all that being said I have been an AMA member for several years, and I truly believe we need an organization to speak for us with one voice, and it is a thread that binds all of us together. But AMA should not be sold as something it is not. The AMA has done allot of good over the years. NO one can take that away. And it does provide several services that we all need.

Maybe it is time for a complete overhaul of the AMA. Maybe it's time for a completely new board of directors and President on down. How about some people in there that are forward thinking like they used to be 20 or 30 years ago. I am no spring chicken by any means but the AMA powers to be are looking more and more like an old mans club, and not a progressive organization that is out there actively and aggressively promoting the hobby and really pushing hard for new members.

You have some information incorrect. However, I don't have the time to correct right now, I'm sure others will. My opinion is: of the magazines I get or have gotten I like Model Aviation the best. I'm interested in all aspects of model aviation. That's me though. I could divide up what your getting from your $58.00 yearly dues, to the rediculous and I am confident for myself, I feel it is a small expense compaired to the benefits.

Competition would be fine. However, I'd still stay with the AMA!

The DVDs were $9.00 for the original and $19.00? there after. You did not have to pay for it, as it was unsolicited mail. Also, you could have returned at no charge, except your time to do so. I thought this project this was a mistake on the AMA's part and created a lot of ill will towards the AMA! I think it was handled by a marketing company, however, it just did not go over very well.

I don't know what people expect for $58.00. In 1975 when I first joined AMA, dues (I believe) were around $25.00. With inflation since that time, this works out to just under $100.00 so in actuality your dues are less expensive now then they were back then. Still, if you don't feel they are worth it, then don't pay them! AMA is not a monopoly! More people are flying R/C airplanes today, then have ever in the past and a significant proportion of them are not members of the AMA! If your club requires you to be a member, then it is the club's requirement and not the AMA.

Quote

Per Carwood444:

"If your not into CL or FF and did not know any other type of flying was going on you would think that all other types of flying were on the fringe. Like R/C".

Please count the number of pages of R/C advertizements, R/C equipment reviews, R/C Columns, build articles and R/C related information in Model Aviation and compair with pages for FF & CL! The coverage R/C gets, is OVERWELMING in compairison! Columns alone average 5 for R/C and 2 for FF and maybe 3 for CL. Model Aviation is not only R/C! However, if your interests were FF and CL, you'd certainly think that's what people think!

Pretty much my point of view. This thing about the AMA being a monopoly is getting old and rather funny. That's like saying that AAA has a monopoly on car tows since since just about every tow company utilizes their service. But it's only your choice to utilize AAA tow service and the tow companies choice to utilize AAA as a broker/charter. You can still simply pay to tow your own car, just like you can simply go fly in many places without having an AMA card. Where I live I can simply just call a school and ask to fly on their football field or schoolyard and in most cases they will say "sure" as long as you do it safe, how hard was that? Has anyone else even tried doing that?? In fact I don't recall being told no one time. This includes gas and glow planes too, not just electric. Monopoly??? Where???

If you are led to believe that AMA is a monopoly, you simply are just oversold by their sales tactics. Can't really blame them for "selling" to an easy crowd. As far as a competitor coming along, really not that hard to put together, but the problem is that there is an obvious withdraw from anyone needing flying insurance if you can simply utilize your homeowners or rentors insurance. The AMA put together a nice package together for $58, especially the magazine, bar none the best in the industry. The only well rounded magazine chock filled with information and ads. The biggest problem is that most wants ALL the AMA perks and magazine articles to work and revolve around themselves and not for others. Most forget the other stuff the AMA does because it doesn't come in their mailbox every month.

Come on, Do you really beleive all that B.S.? All the A.M.A is, is another bureaucrat looking to profit from your hobby.

Bob

Well, this is certainly not the first time we have gone around this block. The AMA has both it's good points and bad points. The AMA is essentially a product packaged withmultiple services, and like many other products we DO have the choice to purchase this product or not. $58.00 a year breaks out to .1589 cents per day. My auto insurance is $4.83 per day. Homeowners is a bit more. In order to join an AMA sanctioned club I am required by the CLUB to be an AMA member. I do not HAVE to join an AMA sanctioned club but if I CHOOSE to than I have to be AMA.
Are they perfect? NO! Is the magazine perfect? NO! However, they are dedicated to model avaition which is NOT solely R/C. I agree that I too do not really like to read articles about FF and CL, but nor do I like heli articles too much simply because I do not fly them. I do understand that they are all apart of Model Aviation hence the name of the magazine.
AMA is not a great evil in Muncie, AMA is here for us to help us and protect our hobby.
Look if I gotta spend $58.00 a year, .16 cents a day to fly at the field I like and enjoy my HOBBY GREAT!!!!!!!!
I spend more than this a year on CA glue,not to mention kits, parts,gas, batteries,etc....
I spend more money on things I have to pay for than want to, like my CAR insurance, medical insurance water bill electric bill uinion dues etc..........

AMA is not evil, not terrible, not backward. The AMA is like any other institution, there is always room for improvement and they never seem to move quickly enough in doing it.

At .16 cents a day, i would think juat about everyone spends more than that just to get to their flying field. If the AMA insurance was primary in your liability protection it WOULD cost significantly more.

IMO $58 per year is a bargain. For the amount of insurance, my home owners is $1000 deductable and I don't know it would cover anything, you would think it would be a couple hundred. The magazine is great, all of it is about actualy flying models, if it flys its cool enough to read about.

BTW R/C models of all types other than the toys is pretty much on the fringe. So we need the AMA to help protect us from Federal, State, and local laws infringing on our hobby. This is my complaint with the AMA they hardly do anything to help, especially at the local level.

Well, the local level complaint is a tough one. Although I completely agree they SHOULD be more active on the local level helping the clubs of each state with any legal issues that may arise against county local or state government. The AMA has long stated they do not get involved on the local level. So, though I would like o see it and welcome it, I cannot blame them for not doing something theynever said they would.
I also agree that I think they could/should be a stronge rlobby on the federal level that they are. Big Tobacco, big oil, why not Big R/C? seriousley though.... we have the money, why not use it to work with and help steer our state and federal officials in the direction we need them just like any other special interest group or lobby.

Again, I am in no way complaining about the AMA. I am just speaking of what I would like them to do in the future,I have no issue with the AMA. They have NEVER not done anything they said they would. I find that people who dislike the AMA are upset that they don't do this or that instead of realizing that the AMA delivers everything they promise.

I've flown model airplanes for over 60 years and have done various types of flying. I build my own airplanes, so I don't have a whole lot of interest in ARF's. I've mellowed on Model Aviation. Any one issue may strike me as more or less interesting, but I understand and accept that what is available varies and that the magazine needs to cover all facets of model aviation. I think this means that the microspecialties will get more than their percapita share, else they would get nothing. As said, not interested in ARFs, and don't plan to fly electric. I do read about them to some extent and have learned some useful things. I admit to not reading the helicopter column, but I do agree that the helicopter folks do not get as much coverage as they deserve.

I like to fly in a competitive setting, so the AMA serves me well by sanctioning contests and maintaining rules and records. My major gripe with the AMA is that, at the national level, almost nothing is done to make the general public aware of, and familiar with, model aviation.

Glad you are satisfied with AMA, SSRC....:

However I am NOT; I disagree with your thesis very much. AMA promises to be engaged in both NATIONAL and INTERNATIONAL recognition of our sport. They do almost NOTHING. [:@]
The Bylaws charge AMA with publication of research and scientific journals. AMA publishes a commercial magazine at an expense upon the membership employing far too many staff.
Of course one can nit-pick some AMA activities as filling Bylaws purposes of the AMA, however IMO AMA does not nearly enough.
Where in these Mission / Vision / and the original Bylaws Purposes does it say that AMA is supposed to be an insurance provider? Of course that is needed, but it is not promised or required. It should not need total emphasis.

AMAVision

We, the members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics, are the pathway to the future of aeromodeling and are
committed to making modeling the foremost sport/hobby in the world.

This vision is accomplished through:
• Affiliation with its valued associates, the modeling industry and governments;
• A process of continuous improvement;
• A commitment to leadership, quality, education and scientific/technical development; and,
• A safe, secure, enjoyable modeling environment.

AMAMission

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a world-class association of modelers organized for the purpose of
promotion, development, education, advancement, and safeguard of modeling activities. The Academy provides
leadership, organization, competition, communication, protection, representation, recognition, education and
scientific/technical development to modelers.


ARTICLE II

Purposes

Subject to the limitations set forth in the Academy of Model Aeronautics,
Inc., Articles of Incorporation, the primary object of the AMA is to
promote and foster educational and scientific advancement in model
aeronautics, to give recognition to model leadership and to provide
guidance and direction of national model aeronautic affairs by those
individuals who, through their accomplishments in the model field, have
demonstrated their qualifications for such responsibility. More particular
purposes are listed below, but shall not be considered exclusive.
(a) To encourage the study and discussion of scientific problems and to
disseminate scientific news and views.
(b) To organize and sponsor discussion conferences and the
presentation of technical papers at such conferences.
(c) To encourage through recognition, leadership in model aeronautics.
(d) To recognize leadership of unusual quality by the conferring of
special honorary titles.
(e) To encourage joint discussion directed toward group agreement on
development needs relating to model aviation.
(f) To keep model leaders informed through the publication of scientific
journals and news bulletins.
(g) To encourage the contribution of articles on the development of
model aeronautics for the AMA publication.
(h) To associate interested organizations and individuals for group
support of education and development needs related to model
aeronautics.
(i) To guide and direct national model activities to the end that model
aeronautics may be advanced in the United States in a manner that will
best serve model aviation as a whole.
(j) To guide and assist in the acquisition and retention of flying sites for
the further growth and development of model aeronautics.
(k) To establish and maintain official regulations governing the conduct
of model airplane records and contests and issue sanctions for same.
(l) To direct the technical organization and conduct of national and
international model contests held within the United States and to act
through the National Aeronautics Association as the aeromodeling
representative in the United States for the Federation Aeronautique
Internationale.
(m) To license model aircraft and fliers thereof for competition.
(n) To promote recognition in the United States and abroad of all
officially sanctioned competitions and records which are conducted by
AMA Contest Directors.
(o) To have as its guiding principle, Of, By, and For the Model Airplane
Enthusiast.
(p) To operate through the National Aeronautic Association in
representing all activities of United States Aeromodeling to the FAI,
such operation to be in accordance with a written agreement between
AMA and NAA.



AMA does very little that it is supposed to. Even the NATs is an Archaic experience. As badly as I hate to say it, things need to be upgraded to move with the times. If the SIGs cannot provide adequate entries to make the efforts worth the expense, then change the events and move on to higher ground. The DVPs need to examine the Contest Boards and rather than just adding bureaucrats, delete the old and revise to new events. _ell the General Sections of the RB has had no significant changes since I started competition flying over 50 years ago, other than a few changes made around 1965. I initiated several of those.

Right now, AMA may be in a position to initiate some changes. There is a new ED that may have a fix on things. If we could get a new President next year that has the gonads to break some sides off the box and make some real moves to make the nation aware of just what aeromodeling is, then there could well be some real advances for this sport. Guys, It's up to you. READ PAGE 160 OF YOUR APRIL "[MODEL AVIATION."

BTW, for those of you that suffer with the "ME ONLY" syndrome, then this "ME" may not be very good for you. I love all aeromodeling. Oh, Have I told you lately, that I have been nominated for President of AMA? Well if enough nominations show up, Heck I just might accept, but those DVPs rather face a grizzley bear than me as a Pres. so never fear, you won't nominate, and without a bunch of nominations, they won't place me on the ballot, so you can still gripe next year.

So explain to us how the AMA pubishes ANYTHING without funds coming from the membership fund? As I see it now MA is more then 60% funded by the "commercial" ads. Are they supposed to publish just one copy for everyone to share?

"Oh, Have I told you lately, that I have been nominated for President of AMA? Well if enough nominations show up, Heck I just might accept, but those DVPs rather face a grizzley bear than me as a Pres. so never fear, you won't nominate, and without a bunch of nominations, they won't place me on the ballot, so you can still gripe next year. "

Hoss, I hear that having to deal with you on any basis is punishment for shoplifting in some third world countries. Is that true?

If you get on the ballot Hoss, I will vote for you. I figure the best way to show you that you are full of crap is to give you your shot and watch you fail.

I sure hope you get elected.

You made my point completely. Your exact words (Columns alone average 5 for R/C and 2 for FF and maybe 3 for CL.) Is that not a 50/50 split? What do you think the percentage of flyers is out there? My point was simple and maybe I just did not state it clearly. Add the total of R/C and then add together CL and FF. Do you think that 50% of the people fly R/C and the other 50% fly CL and FF as one combined group?

Just to let you know I am not dogging you for your opinion. But the total split of R/C as one group and CL+FF as another group, can not be 50/50. It is probably more like 90% R/C and 10% CL+FF. My point to this is as I stated earlier, when was the last time you opened up any other Flying Type magazine and saw this much coverage of these two area's of flying on a continual basis. I don't want to demean the people that fly CL or FF, I think it is great they enjoy this part of the hobby.

My point to all this is not running down MA or the AMA. My point is that the AMA is stuck in some kind of time warp. They are living in the past and in order for the AMA to survive the AMA needs to change with the times. I was hoping that someone might pick up on the point I was trying to get across. The way these people that publish the AMA magazine proves the point. I don't care about how many advertisements are in the magazine, count the numbers of ad's for CL and FF and then count the number of ads for R/C.

I am not anti AMA I will always belong to the AMA as long as it is around. But maybe a little food for thought, how long do you think the AMA would survive if all flying clubs dropped the AMA requirement to fly at their fields. Hum 5 or 10 yrs. my guess is less than that. And if it did survive you would be looking at a completely different organization.

So whats involved here - do I have to say something nice about you, or will it suffice to say that I'm nominating you because you are not Dave Brown?

Abel

You know Able; with that ol' Battle Ship Row of Good Ol' Boys standing in line, I doubt very seriously what you say makes a bit of difference. Let's see, there's Hanson, Oberdieck, Stillman, Mathewson, Wes De Cou, and I'm sure someone else even if Brown retires. So the slate of 3 will easily get selected. Just have to keep the water a little off color now and then. Just a point, the person nominating me was not one of my old buddies, but a Florida personality of some renown. [sm=shades_smile.gif]

edit: remove double word.

HOSSFLY, I have to agree with you-it is time for a POSITIVE change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I said; count the pages of the magazine devoted to R/C (advertizing, build articles, equipment reviews etc.) as opposed to the other aspects of Model Aviaition and then tell me the focus of the magazine is not R/C! All the columns you mention are such a small portion of the whole as to be almost meaningless in comparison! Better yet, forget your interest is R/C and and put on a different coat, now you are an advocate of FF or CL. Now, tell me how much of the magazine is devoted to what your interests are?

My opinion is the split is likely near your 90% for R/C and you must count the advertizing as it truly is reflective of the market! I get the same magazine as you do, however, what I see is a magazine that as far as content is concerned is fairly close to equitable coverage of the sport in it's many different facets.

carwood444, as I mentioned above, I think the microspecialties have to get more than their fair share to get any meaningful coverage. I personally like Flying Models better than Model Aviation for just your criticism. It gives me a more unbalanced coverage of model aviation than does Model Aviation. And it is a commercial money-making (one supposes) venture. Interesting article on indoor slope soaring in the last FM, for example.

Well Hoss, amongst those GOB's at least two have already lost to DB while vying for the job, one has distinguished himself primarily as a DB parrot, and scuttlebutt is that one was blocked from being on the ballot by DB's decision to run last time. A couple of them have shown glimpses of what they are made of in this forum, and for one of them that ain't likely to help him win the job - like DB he doesn't know the difference between election and coronation. One is from FL so he has something going for him, but he is still a freshman DVP and didn't by any means have a tough act to follow. Dunno why you can't compete in that crowd.
You've got a FL personality of some renown behind your run, so I said to myself 'Self, maybe a FL personality of little and somewhat checkered repute is needed to balance things out.'
I found this [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/nominatdue.asp]Nominating Procedure Document[/link] on the AMA site. Anything else I need to know?

Abel

Free flight and C/L are the minority therefore they deserve more coverage not less. Don't you understand todays politically correct politics?

If Imus was in R/C would he refer to FF and C/L as Q-tip headed geriatrics?

Carwood, I'm betting you are not in a timewarp, and like the vast majority of RCers, you never know when you receive an election ballot from AMA, and if you did, you would not do anything with it other than the nearest trash can. Those CL and FF modelers, being in a time-warp, if there was some way to observe such, I would bet that 85-90% of them not only know when the ballot arrives, but they know how to mark said ballot, plus where to send said ballot to keep the people that keep that magazine publishing articles for CLers and FFers and keep that magazine being mostly paid for by RCers.

Some years ago it was audited that nearly 90% of the non-RC fliers voted in AMA elections. Less than 10% of RCers voted in AMA elections. If we were to meet at some big RC event, I would bet you a case of MY favorite drinking whiskey (Gentleman-Jack or Maker's Mark) that we could go forth and ask any number of RC fliers three questions: 1. Are you an AMA member? Most would know the correct answer to that one. Then #2 What is your AMA Number? and #3 Who is your resident AMA District Vice President? If more than 5 out of any 100 members, asked questions # 2 and 3, could correctly answer both questions, I would buy you a case of YOUR favorite DW.

So my point is that the CL/FF community knows what is happening. Those that make things happen take care of those that take care of them. RCers are of the newer generation and expect things to be provided for them. Hey, I raised 3 kids now approaching their fifties, with teen/grown kids of their own. None have ever wanted. I had to make my own way since age 14. Mine and theirs always have had the milk in the refrig. Unfortunately far too many expect others to pave the way and make things right all the time. If you want changes get involved.

If you want things changed, it's time you make some changes and become interested in the operation. OTOH, if AMA doesn't give the CL/FF some attention, just who will? Both of the disciplines are wonderful works of the true arists and craftsmen. Comparing the skill required to wallow a foamie around the sky as compared to the CL stunt pattern is like comparing a walk along the sidewalk to a runner jumping hurdles. The FF doesn't have to fill these forums with, "Where's my CG?" and "What size prop.?" He finds it out or just knows.
AMA stands for Academy of MODEL AERONAUTICS, not just RC. We're all here together.