SSRCCPRES. If the we have gotten off topic, you are just as much to blame. You and STL have been for 3 pages of this thread extolling the virtues of a free market economy and competition. Had to reply based on the direction the two of you steered this thread.

It's all cool Jug. Don't take it personally, I sure don't, let's just have fun and discuss. But like I said before there is not 1 single member benefit which does or does not have an effect on competiton or future competition from or with the AMA. Not 1 single service or product the AMA offers. The foam is no different then the insurance. This week is just foam week for the AMA, some members think they did wrong, but some just don't understand the bigger picture. Tomorrow the AMA will come up with some other clever idea and we'll have the same members wondering what the short term effects without thinking about the long term effects. It will go on and on and on.

The way I see it AMA is doing no different then any other successful NFP out there. This is how things get done in a free market for NFP's and FP's. Just shut up and let them get it done.

"The insurance is fluff and secondary. Who needs it? Sounds like you do, but I sure don't. " Quote STL.


The insurance is the very reason i am in AMA. I bet if we took a poll, that would be #1 reason form most.

Doesn't matter what the poll says. It matters what the bylaws of the AMA says. Who cares what perception of the membership is, that holds no weight on what the AMA must do to maintain it's 501C3 status. The AMA would and has existed with or without the insurance. The AMA is not an insurance company, it's a membership org.

You've been conditioned to think you need it, but you don't. Wouldn't you agree there are more RC flyers in the USA then AMA members? What perception do they believe that they need AMA's insurance? It appears none and this is why the AMA is trying new clever tricks to capture them. The AMA has been on a steady decline for the last 8 years, something must have made them believe they can fly without their insurance.

Stl, it sounds like you acknowlege that possibly the AMA does not represent its members, us. So AMA is this self sustained entity, pursuing its own intersts and in the process of that sometimes our own intrests as modelers intersect? Sounds like the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

STL, sometimes you amaze me in just how you can be so totally in error yet have such an insight at the same time. [:-]
>>"The AMA would and has existed with or without the insurance. The AMA is not an insurance company, it's a membership org."<<
Corrext AMA is NOT an insurance company, however it would have gone OUT of business in the '70s without the Charter Club liability for landowners and members insurance program installed by then Pres. Johny Clemens.

STL you may be a hotshot young business man with all the current hot marketing fads that rise and fall however I am an old modeler, one that was a very experienced modeler by the time I entered the the AMA's political arena as a Contest Director and Leader Member back in 1963. Since then I have been much more than simply a local CD. Especially after 1967, I was extremely active in the political part of AMA for the next 16 years and have been very involved since then. I will put my experience to test over any of your hotshot theories any time any way, anyday reference whether AMA woud or could have made it.

Now, AMA Leadership has failed miserably to be a LEADER of model aviation. When the landowner insurance showed positive gain in allowing charter clubs access to farm land and public parks for flying facilities, and 100% AMA membership in Charter Clubs quickly started a positive cash inflow to AMA, the attitude became, "We've got it made in the shade." Some tried to warn. None listened.

The 1981 frequencies ('91 to you newbies) was the icing on the cake for the feet-on-the-desk crowd, and the magazine publishers. Clubs have always been the AMA sales force without comissions. The bureaucracy only grew and complemented itself.

Well the permissive society of the '60s finally took over in the '80s and '90s and now no one has to be responsible for anything.

Two things: The FIRST is SOCIETY Lack of Responsibility to the fellow person. Judgements are just fought in court until any monies
are eaten up by the sharks. NBD! Fly anywhere, do anything. Like here in TX. Don't need liability Auto insurance. Just run away, the cop will ticket the other guy or both can run away if situation warrants.

The SECOND is WHAT THE _ELL IS AMA? American Motocycle Association? American Medical Association? Buy a Model Airplane News or a Fly RC Magazine in a Grocery Store. If there is an AMA ad. it doesn't say anything eye-catching.
That is because these other magazines lend NO SUPPORT to AMA simply because AMA just has to publish a commercial magazine to each member, double the circulation, NOT on news-stands, and undercuting free-market ad pricing. Half the LHS clerks only know about cars and have no knowledge about AMA so newbies don't hear about it there. Clubs are way off in the sticks so no one finds them except by club effort, not by AMA's effort.

AMA BEING _ELL-Bent on their MA policy is doing everything possible to decrease the AMA membership all by themselves, except that the membership does help because the membership sits on their behinds and refuses to nominate and/or elect leadership that will put a stop to this madness.

T-r-e-m-e-n-d-o-u-s.

The AMA must, by law, acknowledge their bylaws. Read the bylaws and you'll see where the insurance fit in. Members can think whatever they want, it's a free country.

Hey I have an idea for the OP. Instead of asking why the AMA is cutting foam to raise money, why not just ask them why they don't raise the MA ad rates. Looks like the AMA is trying to raise revenues, from the sound of it the quick fix is just double the ad rates and we'll go in the green in no time. I can't wait to see their answer.

Hoss I hope you don't carry this attitude through your campaign race. Nothing of what you said is fact, it's opinion. Fact, the AMA has existed without insurance. Opinion, it would fail without. I agree it takes leadership to keep members, but it also takes strategy. You say leadership, I say strategy. Whose right .. both.

I am as much to blame????? So in oyur opinion the argument of a free market and whethewr the AMA should compete in it is off the topic, but the MA is losing money is on topic???
I am as much to blame? I thnk not.. I was and am on topic. Should the AMA be allowed to compete in an open market selling products and services....Has nothing to do woth their liquidity..

It is you who raised the issue of AMA in for profit ventures to offset costs. The single greatest loss on the AMA balance sheet is MA.

My point was that any additional revenue stream to offset costs and keep dues down was a good thing, and that this is done throughout the non-profit industry. This is in direct response to the origonal posted question. Discussing the specifics of the P&L statement is not within the confines of the conversation. My statements were generality's. Furhter since the labor is donated and the machine is already owned, than there is absolutely NO DOWNSIDE whatsoever.
The AMA ought to be applauded for the efort and hopefully this is just the start. hey still need to cut costs , but this is a win for the AMA.

Then instead of taking the effort to post opinions, why not just go to the EC or ED to find out why this is happening? The OP got his answer, now just find out.

"Then instead of taking the effort to post opinions, why not just go to the EC or ED to find out why this is happening? The OP got his answer, now just find out." quote STL



I have had some conversations with AMA in the last year or less pertaining to a certain amount of money, $3000.00 to be exact. When we brought this item to the powers that be we were just basically ignored. After providing documentation and evidence surrounding this case we were finally told, after much persistence, that there was no mechanism within AMA for dealing with such a problem.In the final analysis we were told that the program involved would be revamped to help prevent things like this in the future.

The bottom line was that the people incharge of this didn't want to deal with it, probably because it would embarrass some and probably because it would require them do something. To ask some of these people why they can't balance the books to me is just fruitless, and frankly i will not waste my time, i have already done that.

I mean asking them why MA rates are lower then what some believe are less then industry standards.

FOR the KNOW IT ALLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MA ad rates are fixxed as advertized....

ALL OTHER Modeling RAGS have

negoiatable rates

as much as 50% off listed rates

ps

I know Modeling ad RATES as I just spent 35 thousand for mag ads...

Told them that a LONG time ago multiple times. Nobody believed me then, I'm sure it's the same way now.

Question from a knowitall. What was the cost of the ad rate before the 50% discount?
what was the actual cost of the equivelent MA rate?

I can tell you right now that you can get a full page spread in Fly RC for about 1000-1100 a month. More then 50% below what they advertise. Equivilent cost is well below MA. That's just one of many examples.

Nice twist to not answer the question.

Are we not agreement on things anymore. Did you read that thing iflyrc wrote about Hoss? Was that a trip or what.

STL, you are not my enemy. As much as i respect or try to respect everyone in this forum,i don't necessarily agree with all of them all the time. Heck i disagree with my wife 90% of the time but i still love her. LOL. We agree on much but this is one clearly where we don't. The question i asked was to find out where the starting prices for ads are compared to AMA regular prices. Since this man called me a know it all then claimed to know more, i only wanted to solicit the required info. As you well know all info can be scewed to mean much of anything. I wanted a baseline to evaluate the info. Your response craftily left that out. Sorry, no offense intended. When people beat around the bush and go the long way not to answer a question i am automatically suspicious.

Who is "iflyrc"? Where is that post? In about an hour, I'm leaving on a 4 day holiday and the laptop stays here, so no more discussion for a while.

Jug you can see all the rate cards from the respective magazine websites. Most of them are about double MA rates. MA is the only one fixed like iflyrc stated, he's right, I've stated that multiple times on this forum.

Hoss they yanked the post, it was the fastest I ever saw one yanked and it was good you didn't see it. Really wasn't funny.

i know hoss, i like hoss, and i thought it was very funny, and i bet hoss would too.

mods probably shouldn't react to what they think will offend someone, but rather to what some user notifies them is offensive.

hos s it was something to the affect of, well just buy hoss a beer.