littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

One second you profess to have the facts and the next you are without knowledge. I find that a little strange. You have posted my local previously... why ask...I think you just enjoy stirring the pot.

I know you know who I am. I know you know where I live.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Red, be my guest, you can assume anything you wish.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Evidently one of those removed was my comment referring to the "crack dealers" but you get my drift here. You really don't have to give anything away to get people interested. I share things with my fellow fliers as well, we all do, but if you start an "RC welfare" program just to boost your membership, sooner or later there will be one or two members pulling the weight of those around them, and again it will come crashing down. If your club was formed at the expense of another, again it will not have a firm foundation, especially if it has to share facilities. I am not directing this at you crank, nor at anyone, it is just my personal opinion that most of the new members we attract have had a desire to be a part of RC and can find the means to do so. You, much like those I fly with, sound like someone with a heart for RC and will do whatever it takes to participate in that hobby. Don't sell yourslef short, nor give away the farm to try and create something that will not stand on its own. If the guys wants to do this, he will find a way to do it. I have seen retired senior citizens who bring some of the best models to the field and fly the best equipment, and I have seen teeneagers do the same. Where there is a will there is a way, and in the long run they will appreciate it alot more than someone who gets it for free.
Tommy

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Re utopian clubs - Assume this!

http://tuffclub.net/tuffapp%5B2%5D.pdf
Where we fly: We have finalized an agreement with the city of Tyler to use the model field at
Northside Park

http://www.tylermodelers.com/flyer-p2.htm
The TMC Flying Field is located at Northside Park

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

The concept of the utopian club ""From each according to his ability to each according to his need." is wonderful until you think about it. Needs grow as you feed them, likewise so do abilities, but far more slowly. Growing abilities takes individual commitment, while no commitment is good fertilizer for needs :-) Therefore by definition, the utopian clubs can't work for long as the needs far outweigh the abilities eventually.

JUGFLIER

TUFF club sounds like a great group of guys. It looks like they were given a lease on the field even though another already had it. Looks like club # 1 was not acting in the best interest of the community otherwise club #2 would have to go somewhere else. Looks like the city fathers agreed and decided to break the yoke of dictatorship. Its amazing what happens to some people when they get control and its not even their land.

BTW, i really like the two pound provision. Sounds like a good basis for a parkflyer definition.

Liberator

"The concept of the utopian club ""From each according to his ability to each according to his need." is wonderful until you think about it. Needs grow as you feed them, likewise so do abilities, but far more slowly. Growing abilities takes individual commitment, while no commitment is good fertilizer for needs :-) Therefore by definition, the utopian clubs can't work for long as the needs far outweigh the abilities eventually. "

Man I have not read Atlas Shrugged in a very long time, that has prompted me to dig that back out and go over it again, thanks Red.


John Galt

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Yep, zero dues. Can't beat that. City fathers on the other hand can be bamboozled by a slick operator. But the club we are trying to identify cut its dues in half. What is half of zero? Must be another group than TUFF.

JUGFLIER

Red, you need to stay on message. he said he was in two clubs. You are the one who identified TUFF, not him.

Tommy_Gun

How did an established club that had taken the time to set up a field get another club stacked on top of it??

And how is it the new club can do it with members that pay no dues?

Very strange.

http://www.tylermodelers.com/history.htm

"After trying other sites for a couple of years, an arrangement was made with the City of Tyler to use the present location at Northside Park. The TMC moved to this location in 1992 and has been there since. The City provided the location, but the TMC made, and paid for, all the improvements except the bleachers, which the City provided in 1999. The City provides mowing at regular intervals for the club runway and other TMC areas, and for bush-hogging of the flying field, twice a year.

In 1999, the TMC became a member of the IMAA, #684, and had our first sanctioned Combat Meet. Several BIG BIRD events have been held since that time.

In 2000, the first jet model successfully took off and landed at the TMC flying field.

In 2001, the field was scraped, leveled and re-seeded. Many truckloads of dirt were moved to fill low areas. Members provided the funds, labor and seed. The City provided the dirt. That year, the club purchased robust metal covers for three work areas and installed them, along with fabric covers for the bleacher and a rest area adjacent to the covered work areas. Pilot safety barriers were installed for six pilot stations, adjacent to the runway.

In 2002, the TMC club members poured concrete slabs under the large work areas. A large windvane was also permanently installed near the pit and pilot stations.

The TMC areas include a 60 ft X 600 ft grass runway, a large pit area, covered bleacher, four covered work areas, parking areas, a small metal storage building and a portable toilet. The club installed a sprinkler system for the runway, pit area, and areas around the work areas. A drinking fountain was also installed near the bleacher.

In addition to yearly BIG BIRD events, the TMC has a Black-Eyed Pea Fun Fly on the first day of each new year, and hosts a yearly two day Float Fly at the Lakewood site on Lake Palestine. There are also several club Fun Fly events at both the flying field and lake site.

The TMC is an active and growing club with members ranging from about 9 to 90 years of age. Visiting flyers are always welcome. There are flyers at the field almost every day of the week, weather permitting. "

JUGFLIER

i think that just about summs it up. The city maintains and mows the grass. Looks like they can decide who flies on it and how many clubs have access. Looks like a sweet deal untill somebody forgot they were flying there at the invitation on the city. Obviously they decided it was "their field" and it took another club and a parrallel lease to slap them to reality. Sadly , this all to common the case. The reason why we don't have more public sites it too many people suddenly realise they know more than anyone else, decide they are "chosen" to lead the infidels, and throw out people who wont "bow down" to the king.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

The city did not invite the TMC to fly there. The TMC worked the deal with the city. Now we have yet to hear the real reason someone deemed it necessary to move in with another club. They all have to use the same facility. What is wrong with this picture?

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

The best I can figure by looking at the web sites is; TMC developed the field on public property with their time and money. The TUFF's formed a free dues club to use the same field with no expenses.

If that is correct, it sure doesn't seem fair to me. Who is going to foot the bill when repairs or new stuff is needed?

JUGFLIER

The city provides the land, ( biggest expense), mows the property and maintains it, ( even the runway), provided the dirt to level the property for a runway. The club, from the looks of things the club has been flying there since 1992 ( 15 years) with probably no rent. Any improvements made were with funds the club probably saved by free land. No one in TMC has anything to squak about. Again, i think this thing goes back to who thought they owned the land and who actually did. Some one forgot they were a guest.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Wow! This thread has really morphed. Anyway Jug you hit the nail on the head. Some of the more pertinent info has been left out of TMC's history lesson. First off, many of the members of TUFF are actually old TMC members, ranging from ex Presidents, Vice presidents and board members. That alone should speak volumes. We as old TMC members provided much of the funds, and sweet equity for improvements made. No free lunch here. Of course that will never be admitted. Also missing in the record is the attempt TMC made to adversely possess the park and even went so far as to pass a rule that prohibited people within a 50 mile radius from being guests of the members or flying there without being a TMC member. That was a fine how to do to the city that had been so generous up till then. There is much more but the fact that the city seen fit to take the field from the exclusive use of TMC should tell all of us something.

Red, you can continue to twist and construe but the fact remains the TUFF club has done more than the average club to promote the hobby but as someone pointed out I was not the one to bring TUFF into this discussion...you were.

There is now a field that citizens here can use and it was the TUFF club that brought it to a reality. The hobby is growing here and the modeling enthusiast population is growing and is being taken seriously. One day our hobby will rival baseball here! Ok, I got a little carried away on that one.

BTW Red, didn’t you join the TUFF club?

Mike001

Atlas Shrugged?! I think Sean Hannity is more popular in this fourm than Ayn Rand.

I found the references to "frisbee golf" interesting- by the way, participants typically use the term disc golf. In my state, there are over 100 disc golf courses, nearly all in public parks. Across the US, there are over 1800 courses. http://www.pdga.com/information.php

There has been some discussion here about publicly supported fields. How common are flying fields in public parks? Does AMA publish any stats on this?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I think that would be a good question...for the AMA to answer. Nobody here answers questions. They just pick pepper out of fly dung!

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

BTW, apparently more germane info, as it relates to the actual discussion at hand, has been conveniently overlooked by those wishing to railroad this discussion. Matter of fact; TMC has found the will to drop long standing initiation fees and reduce dues substantially.

I guess it is possible for more than just one club to drop their costs to the membership...HUH? Well, there you go… the rest of the story…

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

Question "Why do we have outlandish fees to join AMA clubs?"

This thread has morphed because in any attempt to answer the original question, one needs to know all the facts!

I can't answer that thus far because I haven't seen any outlandish fees. I can only surmise the original question is a personal opinion.

$0 is the only outlandish fee I have observed. My personal opinion!

wildchild45177

My Feedback: (11)

Just do like me. Get enough land with your home, and have a private field. To #$*& with AMA, and club dues.
I still promote the hobby by letting friends that fly, come over and fly. I also am willing to help anyone interested in
getting started. I don't however, see any point in paying a government agency for enjoying my hobby. I can see and agree that clubs do have to have a fee, (maint. cost) but some of those are in excess.

Bob

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

It is interesting that some of the "country club" R/C clubs in the country have no problem attracting members with some even having waiting lists. Some of these are even on public lands, such as the Ocala Model Flying club http://ocalaflyingmodelclub.com/
Their dues structure can be seen at http://ocalaflyingmodelclub.com/JoinUs.htm. 277 members. This has enabled them to build and maintain one of the premier flying sites in the country. Just down the road 30 miles is another club, also on the same Department of Environment Protection, Office of Greenways and Trails land, lower dues, no initiation fees, similar demographics, minimal amenities, 41 members. Another club in the same area, on the same Department of Environment Protection, Office of Greenways and Trails land has 141 members (membership cap 150), same dues, small initiation fee and with decent facilities. It would seem that dues are in proportion to what members want in the way of modeling amenities and are willing to work for. So here we cover the gamut from the first class modeling to steerage class. I guess it boils down to your personal preferences and what you feel you can afford to enjoy the hobby.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

First class people make first class clubs. Regardless of the amenities, the clubs I belong to are first class all the way. None better!

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Where is your club? Wht is your club's name? What is your name? How many members are in your club? What are your dues there? Is your club on public land? Is your club on private land? How much money does your club expend on a lease or does it own the land? Does your club have initiation fees? What are the other club expenses?

Please, just the facts so that we can expand on them later.

Polarized glasses are fine for wearing outside but they really should be taken off in here. My personal opinion!

LuftwaffeOberst

I agree with you 100%. I pay enough to be a AMA Member, and our birds and equipment aren't cheap either.

Many of us have other bills to pay and would love to see our hobby more affordable over all.

Many people don't get in our hobby because they know that it is expensive. ( I was lucky, my Vice- President sold me a Glow Trainer with complete Futaba Radio for $150... and I was in between jobs at the time.) I know of 2 people... who hasn't joined a Club in the past due to outragous membership fees.

When my President explained to one of the people that his fee was $40 a year, they were hooked and joined our Club, learned how to fly... and now fly solo.

I mow my Clubs field and I help pay for the gas. Sometimes I mow without the intent of flying that day because it takes me 4 hours to mow everything. I enjoy mowing because I'm doing my part as a member... plus when I mow I escape from my wife, job and everyday problems.

All of us donate our old trainers... fix them up and teach prospect members, and we have 2 "buddy boxes" at our Clubs disposel.

Our Club is on Private Land, and we have a runway for the full size planes next to our R/C field. Most of our members including myself are or were registered pilots.

We have over 25 members, some don't ever seem to have time to fly... but are dedicated and know they have a safe place to fly, or just come out and get away from it all.

The more members in our Club, the cheaper the fees I will assume. Our President only expects us to follow the AMA rules, and keep the place clean. Any money left over... goes in the next years treasury.

I'm sorry, it's just me... but I wouldn't pay $150- $200 to become a member of a AMA club, when they are many out there that only charge $40-$50. I've been a proud member of our Club for 2 1/2+ years... and I haven't seen one who hasn't contributed in one way or another.

Keep it affordable... and members will come, simply put.


Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

All pretty good points. But as the whole thread points out, the human element is what gives this whole hobby a black eye, but it not just exclusive to RC flying, you can find it in car clubs, gun clubs, etc. Some "Mr. Know It All whiney baby" that does not get his or her way will try everything in his or her power to create a riff in a normally functioning club when they do not get THEIR way. Usually they are convinced they are doing it for the good of the people, or the benefit of the club, when in reality it is always the minority They will use lies, deceipt and threats to make the whole bunch miserable. When those who have a distaste for controversy try to distance themselves from it, it is usually that vocal minority who will try and "overthrow" the establishment...throw the "dictators in the dungeon...off with their heads...and cry and moan about how they have been oppressed. If they are lucky, which some are not, they manage to create enough controversy to get municpalities and organizations to try and sweep the whole thing under the rug and give them "their" way, so then they can say "we won, yeahhhh...look at us and what we are doing"...when it reality it has done nothing but blacken the eye of the whole flying community. No one wins in a fight like this, and it is sad that it cannot and could not be settled like adults, but some think that there is no such thing as compromise.

In the end, great clubs get emasculated, and if you are really lucky you may end up with two decent clubs. Usually there is no way for these clubs to share one site since inevitably childish behaviour and geurilla tactics will prevail, as one club thinks they have to entice more members than the other. Wake up guys, this is not the COLD WAR, we are not superpowers competing for global supremacy. It is a hobby, and when it stops being fun, it ain't a hobby any more. Of course the way some act, you might think that flying RC is just the by product of their real hobby, which is creating controversy and wallowing in it. The whole state of it makes me sick.
Now I have said my two cents, and am sure the mods will probably see fit to "clean it up", but EVERY thread in the AMA forum ALWAYS ends up this way....tsk...tsk
Tommy