Nope won't be going to that ... the next large scale fly'in I'll be attending will be Oshkosh. I used to like large scale model planes, but sold most of them when I started building my RV8. So now it's just electric and full scale and not much in between. Will you be attending this year's Oshkosh this year? It's kind of like Top Gun .... only everything's sort of blown up in unequivable proportional dimensions ... even the AMA has a booth there, just to keep the discussion in line with the forum.

I wrote this to the IMAA about 2001 when I decided to drop out.....

A few years ago I was a member also and could see where the IMAA was headed. They did their job so well in the beginning that they failed to realize that there would be a point in time that they didn't have a job.

How many here remember the March of Dimes? That was an organization that took on the task to cure Polio. Did they go away when Polio was cured? No, they refocused and became the center for birth defects. The organization was still intact and rather than fold they changed.

The IMAA has failed to see the forest for the trees. They could have morphed into an organization for 55 pounds and heavier for example. They would be the AMA SIG that set the standards for the real large planes and maybe additional insurance if you were a member of the IMAA. No, they are still wandering in the forest without a compass and will be dead before they realize it.
My opinion...

Our club decided to drop IMMA. The reasons given were why should I pay a fee to fly at my own field, and with no leadership or fresh ideas comming out of IMMA who could blame the club/members for dropping out. I beleive IMMA time has come and gone, and its time to fold the tent pick up the gear & go home. Maybe some one with some leadership skills will want to start another SIG that encourges very large planes. like Frank T is going to host this year. Years ago IMMA was cutting edge but is now lost in the forest of yesteryear. Let it fade into the sunset. Drop IMMA

I have to agree with posts 26 and 27. The larger question than what needs to be done to revive IMAA is why struggle with something that is hide bound and no longer relevant to where giant scale is headed?

Paraphrasing something from a writer of the following. "I must hasten forth now for the troops have gone over yon hill and I am their leader."

This is the IMAA situation, behind the times and trying to figure out how to get back in front by doing variations of what they have always done.
It would be better to start a clean sheet SIG with new people at the helm and a new charter that addresses aircraft and flying areas based on the current state of technology and the demography of the newer generation of flyers.

Sorry if you don't like it but some organizations do become obsolete. Anyone seen a new 40&8 club chartered anywhere?

Wow, I was considering joining the IMAA; but, now I guess I won't (if it's a dying organization why should I?). Does the leadership know about the bad feelings you all have about the IMAA? Or, is this similar to the AMA Forum, where the vocal-disgruntled get together and simply commiserate? (Oh, wait, this is the AMA Forum!)

When I joined IMAA in about year 1999 it had 12,000+ members. Now according as reported here it is down to 6,000. It is an organization that has been out paced by its own progress. When it was formed, few were flying large airplanes. Now they are the norm and nothing special. As far as flyins, there is no advantage to chartering IMAA and actually can keep participation down since you MUST be a IMAA member to fly.

They didn't want any member ideas as they took down the IMAA YAHOO group.

No hard feelings, just facts. You form your own opinion. At the current attrition rate, I expect it to fold in 2 years unless there is a resurection of some kind.

Nope, I won't make it to Oshkosh this year, but I will be attending both Gatherings of the Waco clubs. One is in Ohio, and the other in Missouri. I have seen all the Vari-EZ's that I wish to see. Some of the members of the two Waco Groups will surely attend Oshkosh, but I have other obligations.

Bill, AMA 4720

Ponteri:

Let me say that I have waited for you to surface again with your doom and gloom messages about the IMAA. It would be accurate to say your one and only term as IMAA President had the highest lost of members ever. You might remember that you lost a bid for reelection to a second term and then when you became District 1 Director your fellow Board members politely eased you off of the Board. Your programs cost the IMAA money and during your term as President and we never gained any amounts of new members. The IMAA is as strong as ever under the conditions of our times which also has inflicted losses of members to the AMA as well. You have gained nothing but to stir up things again. It seems strange that your timing to activate these conversations is just when the IMAA is about to elect new Officers, is there some motive here? If you realy have an true interest in the IMAA stop these public negative comments and just go to the field and fly.

I LOVE THE IMAA AND WILL SUPPORT IT FOREVER

Obviously there's a whole lotta love going on in that organization.

I stand by my post #28.

I went back to your post #28 for a refresh, and also reread Dan Thompson's post #30, and they left me with a question.........

Does IMAA still offer Life Memberships?

Abel

I have never seen benefit to joining IMAA. After paying club dues at 2 clubs, AMA membership etc...it's just another fee I don't want to pay. As for IMAA sanctioned fly-ins..those that REQUIRE IMAA to fly- I simply do not attend. I don;t really see a need for IMAA... Just my opinion of course.

(In response to Flying12noon)

I was wondering how long it would take for someone hideing behind a screen name on a computer to turn this discussion into a personal attack. I really don't mind you makeing this personal, however I would ask that you at least get your facts correct. For starters, the decline in membership during my time as President was not the largest decline in membership under a single President. I would suggest you contact the IMAA Secetary for the historical numbers on membership. You also made claim that I was eased of the board. Again not true. My resignation was due to health reasons that limited the amount of time I could devote to the IMAA.

My term as District 2 Director (5 years) District 1 Director (3 years) and 2 years as President are a matter of record. Did I make some errors during my time serving the membership of the IMAA, SURE but at least I served. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE??

You say you "love the IMAA" and I belive you may. I would suggest that if you do love the IMAA, you contact your Director, Frank Fels, and find out what is going on. Ask why reserve funds are being spent to cover current costs. Ask why no meeting has been held in over a year because the directors could not come up with and agenda.

After you get all of the facts, run for office and try to fix the problem rather than just nocking those who step up to the plate!

I have been an on and off member of the IMAA for years now. Frankly, I would just assume let it die since they can't protect their flyins. I would much rather drive 20 miles to a Giant Scale AMA flyin, than to drive 40 miles to attend an IMAA sanctioned flyin. That of course is a very basic hypothetical situation. Some shows that are IMAA sanctioned are worth driving past 5 AMA shows. That is due to the CD and crew of that show, NOT the IMAA. If the IMAA folded, those really great shows would continue as if nothing happened.

Jeff

Kid your post # 3 had me falling off my chair laughing, thought I would let you know someone appreciated it!

I have been flying for 40 years now and attended my first/last IMAA Fly-in this year. I had no idea I would have to join the IMAA just to fly at the fly-in. That's ludicrous. I seen no reason to pay a membership just to fly at an organized fly-in; that's what AMA sanctions are for.

I see no benefit from joining the IMAA that I don't get from AMA already.

I agree, IMAA had a place years ago for promoting large scale flying, but I get that every weekend at my club field.

Jeff

Same here (except for the 40+ years flying). I joined IMAA four years ago, and saw nothing at their fly-ins that I couldn't see (or do) at any plain-vanilla AMA sanctioned event. If membership has dwindled to 6000, it will be 5999 now; I received my renewal notice a couple of days ago, and have filed it with all the other junk mail.

Even though I think that the IMAA no longer serves any usefull purpose I will keep my membership simply to fly in the few events that I like that require IMAA.
At the dollar level that they operate on the yearly dues amount to less than half of a prop or even half a tank of gas to get there to break a prop.
I am sure that it is the principle of the thing but if I am going to stand on a principle, I want it to be a much larger one than the IMAA.

Frank,

I understand your opening statement in the beginning of this thread. The IMAA has ventured into uncharter territory as well as the AMA. That is, dwindling membership on both fronts. I assure you no one will have a magic bullet for this solution. In my opinion, the suggestions below are only a 25,000 foot summary;

1) Costs are a number one killer of any organization. We have to start there and take action on costs that the organization can not sustain.
2) Territories need to be addressed.
3) Meetings and the way they are funded. Every organization must have meetings in order to survive.
4) Technology must play a major role in IMAA's survivability and cost-cutting.
5) HighFlight magazine. Hmmmm.

David

David,
Your remarks sum up the most of the problems with the IMAA today. The unfortunate fact is that the IMAA does not have the leadership or desire to fix the problems. Last fall, the IMAA board along with the president decided that they could not have a meeting in January of 2008 as required by the bi-laws because they could not come up with a meaningful agenda. Their answer was to change the by-laws and hold the meeting in June at the Rally in Canada (District 12) Given the fact that the membership numbers were falling, HF advertising revenue was down, and the budget was busted, how could they not come up with and agenda?

Recently, the District 5 Director, David Laver, placed a motion before the board to move the board meeting up and hold it at Toledo during the show. This would allow some action to be taken prior to the flying season as well as saving money on travel expenses. David's motion was seconded by Ron Shonk. The motion was sent out to the board and after a few days, Mr. Shonk withdrew his second due to pressure from some board members. It is also my understanding that David received some very nasty calls from a few directors. The motion was withdrawn. This is your IMAA board in action! Go after the director who is trying to do his job so you don't look bad.

At the first board meeting in January of 2000, I proposed that a committee be established to come up with a new Mission Statement and a plan to stop the decline in membership. Three directors were appointed to this committee and were asked to report back to the board with their recomendations at the summer 00 board meeting. To date, this committee has produced nothing and the same three directors are still on the board.

In the past eight years, the only answer that the IMAA President and Board of Directors has come up with to correct the problems was to raise the dues.

I believe that if the IMAA is going to survive, some of the folks who have said they LOVE the IMAA have got to step up to the plate and clean house!

And at that same summer meeting of 2000 the following was presented to YOU as President and the board.

Presented to the IMAA Board of Directors at the July 21, 2000 meeting

By:
C. L. “Red” Scholefield – IMAA 18939 District V.
4138 NW 33rd Place, Gainesville, FL 32606 (352) 373-8856, FAX (352) 335-9715
e-mail [email protected] note present e-mail is [email protected]

ADMINISTRATIVE

1. Directors shall appoint as a minimum one assistant for each state or territory they represent. This shall be done within 60 days of assuming office. Since the election leads the assumption of office by at least two months this should give the elected director time enough to put his team together. The second largest District (in members) had only 2 ADs while covering 7 states with

2. Directors shall identify an alternate, to be approved by the BOD, to succeed them in the event they cannot continue to serve in the position. This shall be done within 60 days of assuming office. This alternate will represent the Director at any required functions he is not able to attend.

3. Before being appointed as Assistant Directors the individual shall have demonstrated some interest in the IMAA by having assembled and flown at least 1 model aircraft meeting IMAA rules. One Assistant Director had been apointed that had never flown R/C, much less Giant scale

4. The BOD shall make an effort to involve more members to serve on committees established by the board. 1) This will take some of the load off the Board Members in the day by day running of the IMAA. 2) This will get more member involvement and hopefully stimulate growth of the IMAA. 3) It will enable to BOD to select individuals with specific expertise in the area under consideration. 4) It will serve as a training ground for future BOD candidates.

Areas of opportunity:
1. Inspection manual
2. Constitution and bylaws review
3. Web site archive review
4. Web site classified management
5. Guest book moderator
6. Forum moderator(s)
7. District News submittals for web site
8. Chapter list improvement to include chapter e-mail contact
9. IMAA “marketing” of benefits – why join?
10. Statistical studies – loss of membership, why, areas, differences.
11. Incident review and study – NTSB for giant models.
12. Industry relations – use of IMAA “legal” term, IMAA logo
13. Director peer review guidelines
14. High Flight proof readers


5. The BOD shall authorize a moderated IMAA discussion group (members only) as part of the web site. One did exist but it was not supported or authorized by the BOD. It was finally dropped for lack of support from the BOD

6. Peer review (semi-annual) review of Directors performance by other directors as to contribution, involvement, service to District, membership numbers, sanctions. Each director presents his review of others to the President for consolidation and discussion of results with the individuals. Summary of these reviews will be made available to the membership via HF prior to elections.

7. HIGH FLIGHT

Opportunities for “cost improving” High flight. From the Summer 2000 issue:

1. New releases, page 62- 70, just two per page. Then look at RCM, Aug 2000 Showcase 5 per page.
2. Calendar of Events - 16 per page compared to 40 or more in Model Aviation.
3. Directory pages 120-122 - 3 full pages to list about 100 or so IMAA Officers/Directors and Assistant Directors – compare to complete AMA Competition Directory on 3/4 of a page - lists about 60-70 key people.
4. Advertisers index - 80 for full-page compare with RCM 150 2/3 of a page.
5. Accessories order form – full page compare with Model Aviation 1/3 of a page.
6. Index – full page 3 articles/6 departments/full listing of chapter reports – compare with R/C Report 10 articles/ 10 departments
7. Magazine general:
Magazine pages weight (oz) wgt/page
RCR 134 7.8 0.0582
MAN 138 8.1 0.0587
RCM 184 9.6 0.0522
MA 184 8.2 0.0446
Average 0.0534
HF 126 10.8 0.0857
High Flight weight compared to others 1.60

8. Formatting – 36 words/column inch - compare with Model Aviation 50/column inch.
9. Layout – Safety Corner (page 10) 3 ½ column inches of air. Builders Corner (page 26) 4 column inches of air. Tips From the Pros (page 38) 41/2 column inches of air.
10. Change of address form – is nearly half a page required?
11. Meeting minutes, constitution and by laws…. simply make a note that these are available on the web site or may be requested from your Director with a SASE.

There are many opportunities here, yet we are still following essentially the same “airy” format we have used over the past few years. Can we not put our 30% dues increase to a more effective use?

Respectfully submitted.
Red Scholefield

Red,

I have NEVER denied the fact that the information you listed was presented to me along with the IMAA Board of Directors. I supported a number of the items that you proposed at that time and brought up a few of your proposals after the original proposal was made. I supported having a fourm and I supported having your articles presented in HF.

The problem was that although many of your proposals were on the mark and would have been good for the IMAA, a number of the board members would have nothing to do with them because of you personal attacks on members of the board on the "Big Bird" site. I was chastised on more than one occasion for supporting one or more of your proposals. If you recall, I was threatened with removal from the board because I dared to make comments on this site.

I know that you you have felt that I was the roadblock to your efforts on behalf of the IMAA, however, you were incorrect. The roadblocks were ( and still are) from the far west and north. I might ask you if any officer or director, past or present, other than myself, has complimented you on your articles in MA?

Keep up the good work,

Frank

Frank can you or anyone else on here give any examples of how giant scale flying as it exists today would be affected if IMAA ceased to exist?

It looks like the larger aircraft and those that fly them are increasing in number and external to the IMAA fold.

Of the 35 active large scale flyers that I know here in the DFW area there are not even 10 that are or have ever been members in the IMAA. In many of the cases the 40% flyers can't see any reason to be connected to a group where 3-D flying is not the prime focus.

I am well past the point of considering that style of flying but it does make me wonder how many other types of large scale flyers also consider us to be mostly a bunch of bickering old men that are jealous of where others have taken large scale aircraft and the way that they are flown.

Unrelated to the above I do not hide behind the screen name Gremlin Castle. That was my Uncles B-24 which was part of the 15th AAF 98th bomb group stationed in North Africa and then Italy.

Ross Woods
IMAA # 21493

Ross,

I will attempt to put my spin on your questions or comments...

1) Giant Scale Flying began many years prior to my involvement in the IMAA. I've been exposed to many long-time members and learned a great deal in a very short period of time. For more detail, I shared much of this in an article I submitted in the Winter HighFlight 2007, pg 74. Continuing on, Giant Scale flying in itself has changed a great deal since the original charter, so there's no real comparison to as it exists today. Its an apples to oranges comparison.

2) Increasing number of Giant Scale out side of IMAA? Absolutely! Again, my article addresses this very subject.

3) From what I've learned so far, IMAA seems to be strongest in the east-most part of the country. I visited a few clubs while I was on vacation in Arizona last March, and the consenses there was the same in TX. Creature of habit, repetition, old hang-outs, whatever the case, I'm pretty sure this is due to many years of participation of those in the IMAA and have not wanted to part from it. Those that don't is their choice.

4) IMAA was not based on 3D flying or the 40%'ers alone. Again, that style of flying and aircraft came into focus after IMAA was formed. 3D flying became more promanant after Quequi Somenzini had demonstrated it for the first time in a competition or demo somewhere many years ago. Someone told me when that actuall happened, but I forget. This evolved over the years (both 3D flying and 40%'ers) and its sole purpose (again, my opinion) in demonstrating the pilots individual flying skills and abilities to pushing the limits of our models. My son loves 3D flying, and I don't care for it.

Last but not least, I don't consider myself an expert on the IMAA by no stretch of the imagination. My main role is supporting the membership and the events that I sanction year around. I'm exposed to a lot of information and history along the process and I really enjoy what I'm doing.

David
#29132

IMAA served a purpose in the 80s as a focal point of information and like minded people that chose to build and fly aircraft that were beyond the 60 size birds.

However,for all that was done in the past to launch the large scale movement the current IMAA seems to offer nothing that can't be found in greater amounts elsewhere.
The monthly magazines publish three times as many giant scale articles.
The Internet has more quick reference sites that answer a broader range of questions than IMAA ever has even in it's most active years.
More giant scale fly ins are chartered outside of IMAA rather than through it so again if it ceased to exist instantly what would be the negative impact on giant scale modeling today?

Without some meaningful answers to that question it is hard to come up with solutions as to how the IMAA can regain membership.

The latest IMAA ads are offering a stripped one year membership for $5. It will take a bunch of those just to recover the cost of running the Ad. If we think that we have to go lower than the price of a spark plug to attract people what are we going to offer those that join? This puts us in league with the insurance companies that offer $100,000 accidental death policies for $12 per year should you be trampled to death by a zoo animal. Not that it couldn't happen but does it truly offer anything of substance?

Certainly it is not the privilege of being around those that like to build and fly large scale, as that is being done every day by many times greater number of people than those in the IMAA.

Are we now the classic "elegant solution to a non existent problem"?

I will maintain my membership simply because it is cheap like the Trample policy but would my giant scale situation change without it? Probably not.