AMA Corruption??
09-22-2008 | 12:09 PM
#126
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From: Lexington,
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
PPP could cost the AMA while raising sales for the committee involved industry players.
PPP could cost the AMA while raising sales for the committee involved industry players.
The point I was trying to make is that IF PPP is successful, then BOTH the suppliers and AMA will benefit.
Bob, I dont think folks are jumping too much on the 'PPP is now a failure' bandwagon.
What you are seeing is the concerns and fears about PPP from 9-12 months ago getting realized and still being asked for data. We cant rightly call it a success or failure without looking at the marketing costs of the program & Renew/Upgrade numbers... someone should ask the Marketing guys for that cost, or even budgeted cost.
What you are seeing is the concerns and fears about PPP from 9-12 months ago getting realized and still being asked for data. We cant rightly call it a success or failure without looking at the marketing costs of the program & Renew/Upgrade numbers... someone should ask the Marketing guys for that cost, or even budgeted cost.
And you are right. The figures for cost and revenue should be well tracked and available, probably on a quarterly basis. If Muncie can't break out the PPP costs from other marketing costs, then they should revise their in-house accounting procedures. If, at the end of the year those numbers can't or aren't provided, then IMO something is seriously wrong. It would also be nice to know what the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year goals are for the program. If such goals haven't been set, they should have been.
09-22-2008 | 01:50 PM
#128
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From: Lexington,
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Bob
dont confuse something failing when tried
with something that should never been tried in the first place.
Bob
dont confuse something failing when tried
with something that should never been tried in the first place.
And don't confuse current support with unconditional support.
09-22-2008 | 06:37 PM
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From: Pine Bluff, AR,
RE: AMA Corruption??
I would like to offer a thank you to Bob Mitchell.
He has asked BOTH the candidates very good questions in a polite and respectful manner.
He has responded with very good follow-up questions.
How the candidates responded is as revealing, if not more so, than their answers.
One elaborated, one got mad.
But the best part is the irony. My, my, I do so love the irony and it has been plentiful since BM has appeared on the scene. You know the "blind allegiance to the AMA crowd. The "questioning" is good folks. But the humdinger is the candidate and his following that are running on the platform of battling the "good ole' boys" while creating their own cadre of "good ole' boy" Horrace Cain cult members. Wow. to think I spent the whole weekend flying my Sukhoi and preparing for more flying this week and almost missed out on this.
He has been asked "how dare he", a relative newcomer, come on this site and question the King.
The "old timers" (forum posters that have been posting for some unspecified length of time. When have you been here long enough? ) are having a conniption fit over his lack of allegiance to the King. Even to the point of starting to address him by last name only just a few posts after the King started doing so. The flying monkeys have been dispatched to rid the forum of this poster who seeks to undress the King by exposing his backside through his own words and actions.
I suspect allot of the frustration is brought about by the King proving the case against himself, by himself. The messenger takes the hits, but the message remains none the less.
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
He has asked BOTH the candidates very good questions in a polite and respectful manner.
He has responded with very good follow-up questions.
How the candidates responded is as revealing, if not more so, than their answers.
One elaborated, one got mad.
But the best part is the irony. My, my, I do so love the irony and it has been plentiful since BM has appeared on the scene. You know the "blind allegiance to the AMA crowd. The "questioning" is good folks. But the humdinger is the candidate and his following that are running on the platform of battling the "good ole' boys" while creating their own cadre of "good ole' boy" Horrace Cain cult members. Wow. to think I spent the whole weekend flying my Sukhoi and preparing for more flying this week and almost missed out on this.
He has been asked "how dare he", a relative newcomer, come on this site and question the King.
The "old timers" (forum posters that have been posting for some unspecified length of time. When have you been here long enough? ) are having a conniption fit over his lack of allegiance to the King. Even to the point of starting to address him by last name only just a few posts after the King started doing so. The flying monkeys have been dispatched to rid the forum of this poster who seeks to undress the King by exposing his backside through his own words and actions.
I suspect allot of the frustration is brought about by the King proving the case against himself, by himself. The messenger takes the hits, but the message remains none the less.
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
09-22-2008 | 07:20 PM
#130
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: Robotech
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
Thank you.
09-23-2008 | 02:13 PM
#132
RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: Robotech
I would like to offer a thank you to Bob Mitchell.
He has asked BOTH the candidates very good questions in a polite and respectful manner.
He has responded with very good follow-up questions.
How the candidates responded is as revealing, if not more so, than their answers.
One elaborated, one got mad.
But the best part is the irony. My, my, I do so love the irony and it has been plentiful since BM has appeared on the scene. You know the "blind allegiance to the AMA crowd. The "questioning" is good folks. But the humdinger is the candidate and his following that are running on the platform of battling the "good ole' boys" while creating their own cadre of "good ole' boy" Horrace Cain cult members. Wow. to think I spent the whole weekend flying my Sukhoi and preparing for more flying this week and almost missed out on this.
He has been asked "how dare he", a relative newcomer, come on this site and question the King.
The "old timers" (forum posters that have been posting for some unspecified length of time. When have you been here long enough? ) are having a conniption fit over his lack of allegiance to the King. Even to the point of starting to address him by last name only just a few posts after the King started doing so. The flying monkeys have been dispatched to rid the forum of this poster who seeks to undress the King by exposing his backside through his own words and actions.
I suspect allot of the frustration is brought about by the King proving the case against himself, by himself. The messenger takes the hits, but the message remains none the less.
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
I would like to offer a thank you to Bob Mitchell.
He has asked BOTH the candidates very good questions in a polite and respectful manner.
He has responded with very good follow-up questions.
How the candidates responded is as revealing, if not more so, than their answers.
One elaborated, one got mad.
But the best part is the irony. My, my, I do so love the irony and it has been plentiful since BM has appeared on the scene. You know the "blind allegiance to the AMA crowd. The "questioning" is good folks. But the humdinger is the candidate and his following that are running on the platform of battling the "good ole' boys" while creating their own cadre of "good ole' boy" Horrace Cain cult members. Wow. to think I spent the whole weekend flying my Sukhoi and preparing for more flying this week and almost missed out on this.
He has been asked "how dare he", a relative newcomer, come on this site and question the King.
The "old timers" (forum posters that have been posting for some unspecified length of time. When have you been here long enough? ) are having a conniption fit over his lack of allegiance to the King. Even to the point of starting to address him by last name only just a few posts after the King started doing so. The flying monkeys have been dispatched to rid the forum of this poster who seeks to undress the King by exposing his backside through his own words and actions.
I suspect allot of the frustration is brought about by the King proving the case against himself, by himself. The messenger takes the hits, but the message remains none the less.
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
Bill, AMA 4720
09-24-2008 | 11:41 AM
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From: Pine Bluff, AR,
RE: AMA Corruption??
You can call me Robotech, you can call me Robo, you can call me *Brinker, but please don't call me tech. 
*(last name, available with AMA # as well, in my profile)
*(last name, available with AMA # as well, in my profile)
09-24-2008 | 03:48 PM
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From: Dublin,
GA
RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: Robotech
I would like to offer a thank you to Bob Mitchell.
He has asked BOTH the candidates very good questions in a polite and respectful manner.
He has responded with very good follow-up questions.
How the candidates responded is as revealing, if not more so, than their answers.
One elaborated, one got mad.
But the best part is the irony. My, my, I do so love the irony and it has been plentiful since BM has appeared on the scene. You know the "blind allegiance to the AMA crowd. The "questioning" is good folks. But the humdinger is the candidate and his following that are running on the platform of battling the "good ole' boys" while creating their own cadre of "good ole' boy" Horrace Cain cult members. Wow. to think I spent the whole weekend flying my Sukhoi and preparing for more flying this week and almost missed out on this.
He has been asked "how dare he", a relative newcomer, come on this site and question the King.
The "old timers" (forum posters that have been posting for some unspecified length of time. When have you been here long enough? ) are having a conniption fit over his lack of allegiance to the King. Even to the point of starting to address him by last name only just a few posts after the King started doing so. The flying monkeys have been dispatched to rid the forum of this poster who seeks to undress the King by exposing his backside through his own words and actions.
I suspect allot of the frustration is brought about by the King proving the case against himself, by himself. The messenger takes the hits, but the message remains none the less.
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
I would like to offer a thank you to Bob Mitchell.
He has asked BOTH the candidates very good questions in a polite and respectful manner.
He has responded with very good follow-up questions.
How the candidates responded is as revealing, if not more so, than their answers.
One elaborated, one got mad.
But the best part is the irony. My, my, I do so love the irony and it has been plentiful since BM has appeared on the scene. You know the "blind allegiance to the AMA crowd. The "questioning" is good folks. But the humdinger is the candidate and his following that are running on the platform of battling the "good ole' boys" while creating their own cadre of "good ole' boy" Horrace Cain cult members. Wow. to think I spent the whole weekend flying my Sukhoi and preparing for more flying this week and almost missed out on this.
He has been asked "how dare he", a relative newcomer, come on this site and question the King.
The "old timers" (forum posters that have been posting for some unspecified length of time. When have you been here long enough? ) are having a conniption fit over his lack of allegiance to the King. Even to the point of starting to address him by last name only just a few posts after the King started doing so. The flying monkeys have been dispatched to rid the forum of this poster who seeks to undress the King by exposing his backside through his own words and actions.
I suspect allot of the frustration is brought about by the King proving the case against himself, by himself. The messenger takes the hits, but the message remains none the less.
Thanks again BM for turning on the light.
09-28-2008 | 09:31 PM
#136
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
Actually, I don't think the Park Fliers themselves have even requested such. The word on the street is that a certain AMA Official has partnered with a couple big wigs in the model airplane industry to formulate, initiate, and promote this AMA special privilege group. Don't you think you are being somewhat "used" for the benefit of a small round table of persons feathering their own nests. I certainly feel that wind blowing.
Actually, I don't think the Park Fliers themselves have even requested such. The word on the street is that a certain AMA Official has partnered with a couple big wigs in the model airplane industry to formulate, initiate, and promote this AMA special privilege group. Don't you think you are being somewhat "used" for the benefit of a small round table of persons feathering their own nests. I certainly feel that wind blowing.
Sorry Bob, this is nothing more than vague allegation / speculation. It is not a point blank accusation.
At least that is the way I feel the wind blowing from here.
09-28-2008 | 09:49 PM
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From: Lexington,
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Sorry Bob, this is nothing more than vague allegation / speculation. It is not a point blank accusation.
At least that is the way I feel the wind blowing from here.
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
Actually, I don't think the Park Fliers themselves have even requested such. The word on the street is that a certain AMA Official has partnered with a couple big wigs in the model airplane industry to formulate, initiate, and promote this AMA special privilege group. Don't you think you are being somewhat "used" for the benefit of a small round table of persons feathering their own nests. I certainly feel that wind blowing.
Actually, I don't think the Park Fliers themselves have even requested such. The word on the street is that a certain AMA Official has partnered with a couple big wigs in the model airplane industry to formulate, initiate, and promote this AMA special privilege group. Don't you think you are being somewhat "used" for the benefit of a small round table of persons feathering their own nests. I certainly feel that wind blowing.
Sorry Bob, this is nothing more than vague allegation / speculation. It is not a point blank accusation.
At least that is the way I feel the wind blowing from here.
09-28-2008 | 10:02 PM
#138
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RE: AMA Corruption??
Bob, a point blank accusation would read something like, "I happen to know a very reliable source who has informed me that........
Hoss's statement is hedged full of innuendo and is phrased to you in the form of a question. Worlds apart from what you are trying to make it out to be.
AFAIK, speculation is not slander, especially if it turns out to be true.
Hoss's statement is hedged full of innuendo and is phrased to you in the form of a question. Worlds apart from what you are trying to make it out to be.
AFAIK, speculation is not slander, especially if it turns out to be true.
09-29-2008 | 11:47 AM
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From: Lexington,
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Bob, a point blank accusation would read something like, "I happen to know a very reliable source who has informed me that........
Hoss's statement is hedged full of innuendo and is phrased to you in the form of a question. Worlds apart from what you are trying to make it out to be.
AFAIK, speculation is not slander, especially if it turns out to be true.
Bob, a point blank accusation would read something like, "I happen to know a very reliable source who has informed me that........
Hoss's statement is hedged full of innuendo and is phrased to you in the form of a question. Worlds apart from what you are trying to make it out to be.
AFAIK, speculation is not slander, especially if it turns out to be true.
But tell me, honestly, what would your reaction have been if Mark had said the same about Horrace?
09-29-2008 | 01:43 PM
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From: Austin,
TX
RE: AMA Corruption??
Man it's nice to know you can go away for 6mos. to a year and the same old B.S. is still going on... Different day, different subject, same old crap.
I sure wish I didn't have to re-join AMA just so I can fly at the new flying club I am joining, but thats the way it is.
Bob, You have made it very clear you have a problem with Hoss, ok fine. But lets really look at what Hoss said, quote:
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
Actually, I don't think the Park Fliers themselves have even requested such. The word on the street is that a certain AMA Official has partnered with a couple big wigs in the model airplane industry to formulate, initiate, and promote this AMA special privilege group. Don't you think you are being somewhat "used" for the benefit of a small round table of persons feathering their own nests. I certainly feel that wind blowing.
I take this statement to mean 2 members of the model airplane industry steering a AMA official in a way that will benifit the industry not so much the rank and file AMA member. And I think he has a valid point there. Even if that was not the case there should have never been industry reps. on a AMA committee. just as our own country government doesn't allow lobbyist on committees (you know, the old conflict of interest thing)
And as far as not liking the way he answered you ok, no problem don't vote for him. But before you do that think about this. I don't know anyone else that cares as much about aeromodeling and it's future as Hoss does. anyway enough of my rambiling.....
I sure wish I didn't have to re-join AMA just so I can fly at the new flying club I am joining, but thats the way it is.
Bob, You have made it very clear you have a problem with Hoss, ok fine. But lets really look at what Hoss said, quote:
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
Actually, I don't think the Park Fliers themselves have even requested such. The word on the street is that a certain AMA Official has partnered with a couple big wigs in the model airplane industry to formulate, initiate, and promote this AMA special privilege group. Don't you think you are being somewhat "used" for the benefit of a small round table of persons feathering their own nests. I certainly feel that wind blowing.
I take this statement to mean 2 members of the model airplane industry steering a AMA official in a way that will benifit the industry not so much the rank and file AMA member. And I think he has a valid point there. Even if that was not the case there should have never been industry reps. on a AMA committee. just as our own country government doesn't allow lobbyist on committees (you know, the old conflict of interest thing)
And as far as not liking the way he answered you ok, no problem don't vote for him. But before you do that think about this. I don't know anyone else that cares as much about aeromodeling and it's future as Hoss does. anyway enough of my rambiling.....
09-29-2008 | 04:35 PM
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From: Newberry, FL
RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
I agree Lee, Hoss is in it for the Hobby, not anything else.
I agree Lee, Hoss is in it for the Hobby, not anything else.
No even a little bit of ego building/restoration? . . . . "I'm going to make those incompetant EC members and stupid Open and Leader Members pay for the way they treated me."
09-29-2008 | 05:47 PM
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: LeeL
And as far as not liking the way he answered you ok, no problem don't vote for him. But before you do that think about this. I don't know anyone else that cares as much about aeromodeling and it's future as Hoss does. anyway enough of my rambiling.....
And as far as not liking the way he answered you ok, no problem don't vote for him. But before you do that think about this. I don't know anyone else that cares as much about aeromodeling and it's future as Hoss does. anyway enough of my rambiling.....
THe big manufacturers work in terms of hundreds of thousands of units sold to maintain profitability. Their potential gain from AMA "endorsemnent" of items which meet PP limits is but a drop in the bucket for them. OTOH, AMA can potentially make significant membership gains IF the program is successful.
Whether the program is actually successful will play out over the next 12-18 months, I think.
09-29-2008 | 05:58 PM
#145
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RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: LeeL
And as far as not liking the way he answered you ok, no problem don't vote for him. But before you do that think about this. I don't know anyone else that cares as much about aeromodeling and it's future as Hoss does. anyway enough of my rambiling.....
And as far as not liking the way he answered you ok, no problem don't vote for him. But before you do that think about this. I don't know anyone else that cares as much about aeromodeling and it's future as Hoss does. anyway enough of my rambiling.....
I do think, however that he has a huge ax to grind, and that, coupled with his fairly obvious inability to deal positively with conflict or challenges to his positions make it hightly ulikely that he can be at all effective in the position. AMA leader members are the most involved and active group that AMA has. Almost half of them voted on the recent bylaw changes. Of those, 96% voted yes. Horrace was very quick to characterize them as "naive and uninformed".
That's but one example of the kind of things that have convinced me he would be ineffective.
09-30-2008 | 10:10 AM
#146
RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
No even a little bit of ego building/restoration? . . . . "I'm going to make those incompetant EC members and stupid Open and Leader Members pay for the way they treated me."
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
I agree Lee, Hoss is in it for the Hobby, not anything else.
I agree Lee, Hoss is in it for the Hobby, not anything else.
If you are, I think you have crossed the line!.
09-30-2008 | 10:48 AM
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From: Newberry, FL
RE: AMA Corruption??
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
Red, are you using "quote marks" to say that the subject person myself made such a statement.
If you are, I think you have crossed the line!.
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
No even a little bit of ego building/restoration? . . . . "I'm going to make those incompetent EC members and stupid Open and Leader Members pay for the way they treated me."
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
I agree Lee, Hoss is in it for the Hobby, not anything else.
I agree Lee, Hoss is in it for the Hobby, not anything else.
If you are, I think you have crossed the line!.
09-30-2008 | 11:02 AM
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From: Austin,
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RE: AMA Corruption??
"Did you read Mark's comments on the conflict of interest concern? It's more than common for compaines to collaborate where they have common interests. Who better to provide guidance on the direction the hobbby is moving to assist the AMA in positioning itself to benefit?
THe big manufacturers work in terms of hundreds of thousands of units sold to maintain profitability. Their potential gain from AMA "endorsemnent" of items which meet PP limits is but a drop in the bucket for them. OTOH, AMA can potentially make significant membership gains IF the program is successful."
Yes Bob I read Marks comments, and as you said in the above quote, It's common for companies to collaborate with industry, But they don't put the industry reps. on their committees, they use them for ideas and guidance, putting them on the committee looks like collusion and smacks of conflict of interest no matter how you try to present it. And as far as the 2nd. paragraph time will tell if the program will benifit the AMA or not, But since Mark either can not or will not produce the numbers on the program to date, as requested by others, we cant see for ourselves.
I for one would rather have some one in the EVP position that will step on some toes and ruffle some feathers and truly has the good of the hobby as a whole in mind, than some one that will walk the party line to benefit a pet project.
Hoss might be a custy old fart But he does what he says, and you never have to guess where you stand. Maybe thats the Marine in me or the Texan in me, but thats the way I like it
THe big manufacturers work in terms of hundreds of thousands of units sold to maintain profitability. Their potential gain from AMA "endorsemnent" of items which meet PP limits is but a drop in the bucket for them. OTOH, AMA can potentially make significant membership gains IF the program is successful."
Yes Bob I read Marks comments, and as you said in the above quote, It's common for companies to collaborate with industry, But they don't put the industry reps. on their committees, they use them for ideas and guidance, putting them on the committee looks like collusion and smacks of conflict of interest no matter how you try to present it. And as far as the 2nd. paragraph time will tell if the program will benifit the AMA or not, But since Mark either can not or will not produce the numbers on the program to date, as requested by others, we cant see for ourselves.
I for one would rather have some one in the EVP position that will step on some toes and ruffle some feathers and truly has the good of the hobby as a whole in mind, than some one that will walk the party line to benefit a pet project.
Hoss might be a custy old fart
But he does what he says, and you never have to guess where you stand. Maybe thats the Marine in me or the Texan in me, but thats the way I like it
09-30-2008 | 11:50 AM
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From: Austin,
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RE: AMA Corruption??
Tactical withdrawls are quite common place, you can read all about them in Marine corps history. And looks like to me Hoss is trying to go back into the fight by running for the EVP position, again kinda like the marines going back into Hue after a tactical withdrawl.
Tonto think kemosabie need to think before writting
Tonto think kemosabie need to think before writting
