Well, I did't think you would get that riled and I wont worry about defending myself. I for one was amazed at your attitude towards the generation that made this hobby what it is today. Those 60+ yr olds are the best part of this hobby and the more that make it to 80 the better. Their experience knows what it takes to keep and maintain a flying site. I hope to learn from them so I will be able to do the same. Your dismisal of them is... well what it is.

johnbuckner.....no not at all but what token fee are you talking about the club could possible make more money then if i joined , i just threw a number out there $5 not enough ok $10 or $15 . what i've been saying is i do travel i'm just here in florida due to my fathers ailing health , i am originally from virginia were i guess from everything i'm reading is one of a very few places were people WANT to get togeather to pursue a common interest . i did not mean to offend anyone and i apologize if i did . i really think this is what i thought would happen club and ama members are going to fight against anyone that suggest change to there world , let me tell anyone what to do if you travel alot like me , get on google maps and use there satellite map to find your spots . i was just asking a question and some of you come unglued, and due to that  my mind is made up to heck with the ama , this has just been a example of the people that are involved i thank the ones that were trying to give me the best answer they could but the rest of you should be acting like ambassadors to the ama not trying to run people off , and to let ya'all know i shouldn't have to be saying this but most sanctioning bodys like a.r.c.a. / nascar / n.h.r.a / the real ama ( american motorcyle association / aba just to name a few assure not only participation in any event but the use of a facility in any state they are involved in ....that was were my question was steming from!!!!!!! but what i've learned , is that the few good members are way outweighed by the real ignorant ones and that is such a shame , you can't even take the time to be a good ambassadors to your own hobby ........</p>

and i didn't realize that was the way i came off and i've been saying sorry for it it only takes a few to make everyone look bad and i am manning up to my mistake

tararsdad ok now that is the answer that really makes sense it may be a little extreme but ok ( i'm not knocking what you said) i can live with answers that make sense . some of you think i'm getting tick no i'm not i'm looking for answers that make sense not just "you ain't using our field to fly the heck with you"

this guy really has the right name JOKER! he is proof that you can't fix stupid!!!I hope he never runs out of his medication. you don't need a field to fly in just imagine in your head that your flying and it won't cost you one single cent! your a 42 year old self centered person who should take up a new hobby like painting were you can be ALL by yourself and not be bother by those nasty OLD people.

Even though it's hard to read &amp; follow the jokers puncuations or lack there of, i think I understand what he's trying to ask/suggest. 
He wants to why he should join AMA AND a Club; i.e., $58 for AMA &amp;  $50 or $100 Club dues, especially when the Club is flying on city/county/state/fed property.The Joker,  Am I correct? 
From AMA you get the insurance &amp; a magazine, from the club you get a nice place to fly.
I belong to several clubs in several cities. I fly in Atlanta, Houston, Florida, &amp; here at home. As long as I have my AMA card, most club members welcome me. However, at ALL these clubs, there's always an AH, who thinks he knows it all &amp; "act like he owns" the Club tries his or her best to run new &amp; other folks off. And/Or they try their best to be superior and act like the new guy is beneath them. Joker, I think every club has those types, it's just a fact of life. After you get to know them, you just learn to ignore them, most are bully, blowhards anyway .
I'd say think again about  investing in an AMA membership. You'll learn a lot, make a lot of friends, get a lot of help with you planes &amp; flying. Don't let one monkey stop your show. I think I understand what you are proposing, join the AMA for $58, and then pay by the flight day at the club. That's a good idea.
I know one club in Houston has a $300 initiation fee &amp; $300 per year, but they own their land. Another that flies on a county park, where the county has paid for the facilities, charges $35 per year. You can fly there with just an AMA card &amp; don't have to join the club, but most do.
All these clubs are declining in membership, some by as much as 1/3, because many of the old guys are dying off, and the younger crowd had rather play video games.  I wish we could just stop the decline! Increasing membership is asking for a miracle! I wish we had an answer.

When this thread started with "I dont want to make any trouble.." I kept reading 'cause i knew folks would get fired up, I wasn't dissapointed
The AMA is neccesary because it puts a responsible and representative head onto aeromodeling activities for everyone in this country.  It seems so 'natural' how things are, but simple things like usable frequency designations, noise standards, general safety guidelines (ie flight lines etc.) were all formed or influenced by AMA activities, if the AMA didn't do this then the federal government would be dictating our lives (and giving us federal bail-outs to buy our votes but I digress....)  .Because of the 'big picture' I definately support the AMA in a philosophical manner and try to maintain my membership even when I live in the boonies and don't have acces to a toilet with running water.  On the other hand I am sympathetic to the person who gets stuck trying to fly at a new field and who runs into the attitudes of that field... so often these folks aren't helpful or friendly. but those attitudes are NOT the AMA or in any manner are they representative of that Golden Palace of Hope and Love that's in Muncie where the souls of all pilots go to when they die.

So on the one hand, the AMA, support it cause it supports you.  On the other hand the local clubs, fly there if you can because they need your positive attitude sometimes just to help their sour one.
</p>

I kinda understand the jokers point.  Whether you older people in the sport realize it or not, you are dying off and membership is declining rapidly.  With new simulators and such, people don't need an instructor.  I learned on a sim and I fly (for real now for 6 years)  and land scale planes better than alot of the old "vets" can fly a sport plane.  These are the same old vets that the joker is talking about.  The absolute fact of the matter is, until clubs can make themselves more "appealing" to the everyday park flyer and  and new guys like the joker, things are just going to keep right on tumbling down hill.   I like the idea of an AMA member being able to drive up to any field they want (the field can designate what kind of aircraft can fly) and paying maybe $10-$15 dollars to use a nice facility and get to know some "nicer" people.  Let it be their choice to join the "club".  If they come out to the your field 20 times in a year @ 15 bucks a time that's 300$ a year that a person my not even realize they paid.  If they don't want to join the club but they still pay $300 dollars a year to support the field .....who cares, the field still gets the money.  It's a win win.  The field gets the money, the AMA get's the membership and we all keep the ability to fly because the AMA is fighting for us.

So, you are saying that if clubs, whether they are AMA chartered or not, are nicer and more accomodating to parkies then the older folks will quit dying thus improving the AMA membership numbers?

Naaa.

AMAnumbers are slipping due to many factors. The attitude and non-partipatory nature of theup and comergeneration, the dying off of the older members, and more folks flying parkies and lighter models that they feel don't require additional liability protection over and above their HO insurance. These are but a few reasons and there are more. The issue has been hashed/hacked to death in this forum.

The OP, as is typical of the younger generation, wants the established clubs to conform to his unique situation. He will learn, if he hasn't already, that RCclubs will be the least of his worries in that regard.

This discussion comes down to one question: Should the AMA force all its chartered clubs to adopt a particular rule that the OP favors about when non-club members can fly at their fields, or should the clubs be free to do what they think best? I don't see any reason why the AMA should force some one-size-fits-all rule about this on all its clubs, and the OP hasn't really tried to give us one, except for saying the rule he wants would be better for him. "I'd like this rule so the AMA should make every club adopt it" is not the most compelling argument I've seen. In the absence of serious safety problems, why shouldn't each club be able to arrange its affairs the way its members want?

In the jokers circumstance, and others like it,  of not knowing how long he will be there, why not charge him a usage fee of $10 or so every time he flies?  The field gets it's precious money, joker gets to fly without any long term $150, $200, $300 obligation and everyone is happy.  If there is any question as to whether or not this person (the joker or anybody else) can fly, put them on a good sim with a few scenarios and make them prove that they have a reasonable handle on things.  Then you make them successfully solo at the field, smile, shake there hand and say thank you for supporting this hobby and the AMA that'll be $10. Hope to see you again soon. That's $10 more that the club wouldn't have had before.....instead of not allowing them to fly.</p>

You are right. Our club allowed you to fly 3 times as a "guest" for free, then you could pay $10 3 times to fly. After that (you had flown at the club 6 times), you had to become a member (but that did cost only $50.00).

It worked for us at the time... Of course, only AMA members are allowed to fly.

Gerry

Wow, This is a great post. I myself feel for this guy. I live 70 miles from the nearest AMA field, while some of those guys are great & some of them frown at outsiders I've had a hard time wanting to pay AMA $60 to tell me where to fly, how to fly & who I have to pay to fly. It has been very frustrating, & know even more as AMA has this park flyer insurance for guys that fly at parks with no guidance but the guys like myself who owns his own 40x400' strip at my house has to buy the full insurance becuase I run Nitro fuel planes, what gives. I have been flying for alot of years have 30+ planes in my hangar & have fun doing it all. I don't have a bunch of dictator's telling me how, when & how much it will cost me to fly. I do enjoy going to these other clubs to interact with these guys, but in my situation it doesn't pay for me to support AMA when there is no benefit in it for me. Oh I also don't require someone that wants to fly at my place to hold an AMA card but I do make sure they have liability insurance & make sure that there able to fly & if not I'll be more then happy to buddy box them & get them solo in a short time. It seems to me that AMA & some of the clubs out there take the fun out of flying & like the drama in keeping there members stirred up. Again this is not about every club but abour 80% of them. So if your ever in my neck of the woods your more then welcome to stop & fly. Later

This is all very strange to me. I have belonged to general, free flight and control line clubs over the years. I have never seen the attitudes talked about here. I presently belong to two CL clubs, dues $10 and $15 respectively, AMA card required, one on county land, one on city land. Because I fly competitively, I know people from all over, and can make connections where ever I go to fly.

Slick69 I could give a rats backside about the insurance from the AMA, BUT there is one thing that they do that you and I can't.  They fight the fight with the big dogs (FAA, DHS) so that guys like you and me can fly.  The gov't can shut down anything that has to do with our hobby in a matter of days no matter where you live in the US.  That is the fight that I will pay them for.  The military are using RC airplanes to kill terrorist.  Some whacko gov't official will probably raise hell that it's just as easy for us to do the same thing with an RC jet and eventually the AMA will put them back in there place......at least I hope they will.  And they will use my $60 to do so.  They are kinda like our lawyers when it come to that big stuff.  I like the point joker brought up about the ARCA, NHRA, the other AMA, BMX etc. Why can't these so called AMA sanctioned fields/clubs function like these other operations?  You don't have to be a member of any particular TRACK.  You pay your dues to the particular organization and then you go anywhere you want and use their facilities as much as you want on a per day/ per use guideline.  I might only use your "club" field 7 or 8 times because, I'm in the military, or on a long business trip, or doing a temporary job, or taking care of a family member, but I shouldn't have to pay $150, $200, $300 for something I know I am going to use a limited # of times.</p>

I like the idea of flying at any AMA feild.  I enjoy a good road trip.  I can easily see touring the country with some airplanes in the RV and spending a day or two in each town.  We all take vacations.  Most people take their golf clubs.  Why couldn't we take our airplanes ?  Just as golf courses have green fees. our clubs could have a similar fee, for example 10 dollars per day. The program could be voluntary.  Only the clubs that wish to participate would be involved.  A current list could be on the AMA website along with contact information.  That way prior arrangements could be made when travelling. 

Hey joker you are missing something. Are you or any of your ilk responding to the FAA in areas of national security? The AMA is defending our privilege to participate in our hobby. If you don't think law enforcement hasn't been looking at RC, then you have been too busy sending these posts.

From your diction, I must assume a lawsuit involving someone injured at a field would not be undertaken against you. Club officers are a convenient target for an attorney that can demonstrate "inappropriate safeguards" at a flying site. But then, I'm certain you would aid in their defense? Hmmm?

Individuals that put a great deal of time, effort and money into building a facility for this hobby need all the protection they can get. If people like you do not like the rules associated with a flying site, then why the hell don't you create your own? Why is it necessary for you to complain when you can just as easily channel your energy into something a bit more constructive? The individuals building and maintaining flying fields, and the AMA, are to be commended for their contribution to radio control while those that would demean or detract would be better served taking up golf.

There is a key critical problem being completely glossed over here and I am shocked at the ignorance being displayed.

It concerns the very existance of those coveted flying fields that are under attack here because they don,t just throw open the gates.

Now every one likes to ***** about AMA insurance which covers the member because it is secondary to any other liability they may have in place But-when a group charters a club along with that charter which has a ridiculously cheap fee and comes with coverage for their flying field 'Land Owner' is included for that land owner and it is not only primary coverage but it names the land owner as the primary insured. Period end of story.

Without this certificate naming the land owner (regardless be it public property or private) then a high percentage of those coveted flying sites all accross the country would soon be closed down thats a fact. Obtaining Outside liability insurance for the property owner in most cases is prohibitively expensive that a fact.

Now another point You all keep talking about going to Rc car races and such all over the country and such without becoming a local club member-So-Whats the differance? (this is another point where a lot of ignorance is being displayed) I can as an AMA member travel to any AMA sanctioned event in the country and participate without becoming a local club member period end of story.


Now for what its worth The vast majority of AMA chartered clubs will welcome visiting flyers even when there is no event and welcome them with open arms. In many cases ignoring daily fees which may or may not be in place.

Its a fact of life if you approach folks with an attitude that your clubs suck and you are just old people anyway then it a no brainer you are going to get treated in kind.

John

I don't approach hotels or airlines with the hopeful attitude that if I'm polite they will give me a room or a seat.Inthe case of travellers, (vacationers), some prior coordination is needed . Someone might actually drive to a destination rather than fly so that they might accomodate transporting their aircraft. Some people might even choose the destination itself because of the facilitesthat areavailable.

The idea of showing upunexpected forpot luck IS the problem, not thesolution.

Johnbuckner, we're not talking about RC car races, we are talking about the National Hot Rod Association (NHRA), American Race Car Association (ARCA), American Motorcycle Association (the "Other" AMA).  If you are a member of these organizations you can go to any track in the nation and use it whenever you want for a daily/hourly fee.  You don't have to be a member of the local club to go do what you love in these organizations.  There's ALOT more money , time, and danger involved with these groups.  Why can't  our AMA be the same way????????? Pay your dues to them, then go use any flying field you want , anywhere you want for a daily/ hourly fee.  If you want a say in the way the field looks/ operates, then join the club, but if you don't want to be involved in the politics then just pay a daily/ hourly usage fee.  If it was this way I would pay $100 for an AMA membership as long as I knew I could go anywhere to fly.

I'm in Virginia, all the flying sites around here require AMA, not sure where all these places in Va are that you can fly for free. Please enlighten me.

Dave

The OP definitely has some problems. He posts almost like he is text messaging like a teen-ager. His style does not lend itself to readable prose, as others have commented on, and IMO presents no case for that which he wishes to express.

Personally, as one that travels from SE TX to the Upper Peninsula, MI, each summer, I dare say that I think most any AMA Chartered Club will invite any AMA member for a day or even several day's flying. OTOH that individual that thinks he can go to each club within an area as he so pleases, and fly for free is, IMO, basically a financial illiterate as well as ignorant of the social world.

Most clubs and definitely clubs on private property, their owned, or rented, or borrowed has expenses relative to that facility. Free loaders are not going to be welcome on a continual basis. Common economics.

For those that push the day fees, that is probably going to eventually happen. If so, a club best be incorporated for the club will be subject to the IRC as administered by the famous IRS. Even if incorporated under the IRC 501 (c) (7) most liberal, there are limits to the non-taxable income outside member dues that the club can earn without becoming subject to Federal Income Tax. That means the Club Treasurer is going to do more than report monthly income vice monthly outgo such as how much work was done on the club's mower/s.

Just who in heck would want AMA dictating their club's social calendar? If AMA tried that then I would predict 25% drop of Chartered Clubs the first year and another 25% the next year. My flying would immediately become a thing on my personal property and maybe some club events. Big Brother is good for what Big Brother now does, but nothing else is needed over my daily life.

So, we don't need any AMA dictating any club's activities more than what we already have, No individual deserves any free rides outside what the club he/she belongs to determines for its members, and those that think any form of government should be able to do so, well they can just go elsewhere, and look for better. Just watch-out for the crowd that is coming towards you. [sm=devious.gif]


A GOOD ONE... Check on:

Takin' Back Our Country - Let Us Help Ya Pack

Hossfly I have to say that insulting the OPs intelligence and your smug attitude towards the subject at hand is one of the things that I hate about clubs.....................Insulting the way he types??????come on!.  There are many things in this thread that the OP may not have known.   I've been flying for 6 years and it was just recently that I found out what the AMA does with my $60 a year.  Is this really the way the OP is going to be treated as an uneducated new guy????  If it is then I want nothing to do with a club who has this type of attitude.  I fly because it's fun.  Not so I can be dictated by insulting, smug, club officers.  And no I'm not saying every club officer/ trustee member acts this way........or do they?</p>

This thing really got heated up. WOW. I have never stopped anywhere to fly and been told NO. Panama City, FL. offered me a key to the gate if I wanted one for the week I was staying there. (my wife said no). We have a group of old college guys that meet here every year for a week to fly together. No one asks for money we turn it into a party for all of us. I went to a field once in Florida and was told I needed the safety offer to buddy box me before I could fly as a guest. their rules. I said "OK" When he showed up. I pulled out my 40% Extra and the look on his face was worth a million bucks. I put him on the box and most anyone else that was there that day. Had a great time. Went to another field just to watch and saw a guy having trouble with a gas engine. I offered to help and ended up getting to fly his plane.
I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes it's how you approch a new group of people that really counts. As far as the AMA and what they have done for me and my club. This May we had 20 feet of water over our field and they were the first to offer help in cleaning it up.
Each club does their own thing some good some not so good but overall in the 30 years I've always found friends where ever I go. Dennis

Yup, +1 to what Dennis said.