i'm not trying to start anything so please no one get upset but what is the ama really for through some of my research they only cover you if your at a ama sanctioned field but to be at a ama field at least here in florida were i'm at you have to join a club (a little insite i just moved to florida i came from virginia were hundreds of fields to fly for free) so you end up paying the ama then a club on top of the ama i would figure if you were a ama member one of the benefits would be use of a ama sanctioned flying field . also with everything i've looked up on the net people talk about the declining numbers in the ama and club memberships nationwide so maybe i'm not seeing the whole picture but to increase membership in the ama it makes sense to get the clubs to open there flying fields up to ama card holders even if the club was to charge lets say $5 a day for use it seems the ama and the clubs would stand to better themselvses . (the club in my area allow 4 free visits a year to there field to fly more you have to join except for rc planes i have nothing else in commen with someone in there 60's ) 1 more thing if the county owns the property and makes the club follow the same rules as county parks then isn't the flying field really a county park ??? like i said i'm not trying to start anything and i have been flying a short time but all of my flying time has been free i just thought we are all pursuing the same hobby so if the ama wants money they need to be doing something for it don't they ???

That is not true. They cover you pretty much anywhere you fly, as long as you have some semblance of a flight line, and flight area where there are no people (to make it short).

Most clubs let other AMA members that are visitors fly. As you mentioned, most have a limit on the # of times you can fly without joining. The reason for wanting people to join, is clubs cost money, from the lease for the land (or tax if it's owned), to costs to upkeep the field and such. If people were a little more free roaming perhaps more clubs would have a pay to fly sort of thing, or as ours does, an associate membership. With that if you are a full member of another club, you may join at the associate price (which is much cheaper) and fly... you just have no voting rights on club matters as an associate.

It depends on the land use agreement with the club. Many such fields really are open to any AMA member to fly, some are exclusive to the club. Sometimes you need to go to the local offices that
deal with that land to find out for sure, but most places will let you know up front. I've only run across one club in my years flying that tried to force everyone into membership to fly on a place that
was open to anyone with AMA. In the end due to their behavior they lost the field.

i understand that i myself in all the years i have also run into a club like that i think my point is if the ama is so important then why do the clubs try to restrict other ama members ya'gotta remember i'm dealin' with people in there 60's + they are the ones that for what ever reason always seem to make these type of things harder to deal with (weather it be the good ol' boy thing or the know it all age) .you guys know the type they act like you don't belong when you just show up and want to ask simple questions if the ama set some kind of guide lines then maybe i could see spending some money with them even if the club gave us a little more time to do the get to know ya' thing . as far as ama covering you outside of a ama flying field i don't know i my years the best type of flying is common sense .

<span style="font-size: x-small"><span style="font-family: Arial">There is only one "AMAfield", and it is in Muncie, Indiana. You are covered anywhere you have permission to fly and follow the AMA safety code.

As the previous poster noted, most if not all clubs have expenses. You should be willing to contribute and support their efforts in providing a safe, enjoyable, flying site.

If you don't feel like contributing you can always find an empty patch of land and, with permission, fly there. Either way the AMA covers you. BTW, your $58 does a lot more than just provide you with insurance. The benefits of AMA are too numerous to list here but a little thread search in this forum will give you an idea. Try to get past the negativity you'll inevitably run into searching this particular forum though. Perhaps if you went to the AMA's own forum and did some reading there you would get a good idea.

Your point concerning fields in publicly owned parks is a good one. My club's field is in a city park. The city requires AMA membership to fly but not club membership. We (the club)do all the maintenance on the field and paid for all the buildings and <span style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">accoutrements. You would be welcome to fly anytime but most would eventually join the club out of a sense of duty and fairness. Accountablilty and paying your way is hopefully something you will have in common with those 60 year olds someday</span></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">. </span>

ya' k-bob i do want to pay my own way you are right about that in my first post i was saying like paying $5 a day to fly to compensate for what the club does i'm not against the ama and i've gone through there web site and was thinking about the ama park flyer card i do not foresee getting into the big boys and i do need to see if the club in my local area will accept that card just for years back in virginia there are so many places you can go and fly then coming to florida (my fathers health declining) and bam no where with any type of room to really fly (at least in the area i'm in)  but to pay a club $100 and i'm really not sure weather i'll be here a year or longer , i am going back to virginia one day and really won't be any need for either one(club or ama) but for now i need to figure something out and if the ama was to open or get these clubs to allow ama card holders to use there fields (for a fee) would be great and i'd become a lifer with the ama but as long as clubs (at least in this area and yes many club fields in virginia allow ama members to use there field without being a member of the club)close there fields to outsiders i just don't see becoming a ama member would be the thing for me i do fly with common sense and not around people and such i guess i just don't see why these clubs are so exclusive if we are all in pursuit of the same thing in the end  

Some punctuation and spacing would go a long way to making your posts easier to read.

That said...

The reason clubs require AMA is liability insurance for the most part. Most land owners whether private or public, require liability insurance for anything organized to operate there, its just the way it is in our lawsuit happy society. While they could certainly say "require x dollars in liability insurance" checking on that and proving it with a copy of a policy that only a lawyer could understand becomes problematic, the easy solution is to show an AMA card thus proving you're insured.

On top of all that, you're also helping fund the organization thats trying to keep us out of the pervue of the FAA and DHS.

it seems this goes back and forth......ok i understand the ama insurance thing , why can't the ama sanction that a ama field is a ama field and visitors to a local area have the right for a fee to use any ama sactioned flying field ? see if i join the ama then i'd like to have more benifits then what my home owners insurance gives me , at least when it comes to my rc flying . i do not see myself living i florida for another 2 years so i join the ama then a club then i end up leaving the area and it now does me no good to be in the club , people travel and not all clubs open there doors to you even if you are a ama card holder or belong to some club . maybe i am wrong i think that the ama should get togeather with the clubs to allow anyone that is traveling to enjoy a ama sactioned flying field .  if i belong to lets say the moose lodge i can go to any moose lodge and show my card and i'm welcomed so what everyone is telling me is the ama is only good at ama sactioned flying fields but that is if the exclusive club allows a ama member to fly at there ama sactioned flying field , does that really make sense to anyone ? now i know not all clubs are like this , this is just what i'm seeing in the area i'm in ( central florida area ) i'm not calling out any club names , so i'm not trying to be a butt . i guess if i was to become a ama card holder then i could fly at some ama fields , but if you could fly at any ama field i for one would be a huge supporter and life time member of the ama ...... i'm not saying i wouldn't ever join the ama it is something that i am thinking of because i see some clubs have a open door policy , but why can't the ama have the open door policy when it comes to what almost all clubs claim are ama sanctioned flying fields ? i hope this clears up my question a little better and i really appreciate all that have taken the time to try and help with my question .

The AMA sets guidelines but the management of clubs is up to the clubs themselves. Some clubs are all electric, some all helicopters, others don't allow helicopters etc.... thats not the kind of things the AMA wants to get involved in, including who can fly there.

One point here, and it may be minor, but the AMA doesn't sanction fields, it sanctions clubs. As someone said, the only "AMA Flying Site" is in Muncie where the HQ is. You can fly, and by covered, anywhere you have permission and follow the safety code.

Try again

I think you meant to say they charter clubs and they sanction events.

regards
Frank

if i could get littlecrankshaf to explane i think i know were he's going , this is were i am so confused . look , like i said i don't see a problem with joining or being a member of the ama, there are fields in virginia were i am from ( and hope to oneday go back to ) originally that open there field to any ama member these same clubs come out to were i fly ( parks and schools) and join in and will invite you to there field for the day . i don't see that same comradery here in the part of florida were i'm at ( the schools are fenced and locked the county parks are small and the biggest one of those backs up to a business airport ) . i keep explaning that we are all in pursuit of the same thing  i.e. we are on the same team but the club thing makes it me against you , even if we hold the same ama card .
here is the best example i can give .......if i buy a part for my car from auto zone in virginia the same part fails when i'm in florida the auto zone in florida ( with a recept ) will replace or refund my money because they are in the same company ...
so as you explained to me the clubs are ama sanctioned and if i was a member of the ama ???? see thats were i get confused isn't it still all about the ama ???? when i first started to read stuff on the ama, i don't read into everything i look at, but no where does anyone tell you what besides insurance the ama does for you , then they start talking about declining membership in the ama and clubs nationwide , well through my thinking if the ama was getting the clubs to have a open door policey ( with a fee to fly there field i don't expect anything for free ) , then i might even go wow i really like these guys i'll join there club ..........ding , ding , ding everone just won the ama has a new member that goes out and flys on a clubs field that new ama member after a month or so decides he likes the club so to save him or her self money joins the club , it's win win so a person such as myself that may travel from time to time would also benefit from such rules . then the ama's membership would be on the rise , i think alot of the so called outlaw rc pilots would join, you'd be stupid not too at that point ....use any field for a fee that has ama sanctioned club , and think of the money it would make the clubs really it is win win , when i possed this same question to the locals they treated me like i had the plague . for me i just want 2 or 3 times a month on a monday or tuesday , so i really would not be interfering with the club and there activitys at all. i'd follow the same rules as any member would , clean up behind myself and such and hey if my stay here in florida was going to real long ( like i knew for a fact i was going to be here for the next 2 or 3 years ) and i get along with the people in the club then why not join , but right off the bat i'm the bad guy the outsider , now with the ama saying the club should have a open door policy and the ama backs there members then people would not feel like outsiders, we would all be part of something bigger . thats were my question stands why join the ama what do they do for me besides insurance ???? i'm really looking for a reason to say ok what the heck but it seems so confusing, give me your money and all i'm going to do is give you some kind of insurance but if your on the outside of what we think is wrong then your home owners insurance will have to cover it ???? my home owners covers it anyway so what the **** . see thats what i can't figure out. one more example for you when i was young i raced bmx bicycles now you had to belong to either the aba or the nbl to race on there sanctioned tracks but if you belonged to one or both of the sanctions you can race on ANY track in the world that is sanctioned by either one of them and yep they also provided you insurance if you were injured . so you can see i've delt with organized sanctioned events and such in my life i have some grasp on how things are supposed to work so why not the ama ? or is my question out of line .

Yup.

I was trying to multi task.

Dang.Your lastpost made me dizzy.

As soon as you realize that some clubs have an affiliation with the AMA, and that other than obeying the AMAsafety code, the AMAhas little say in how a club operates. It's like you're saying that because you have State Farm Insurance and I have State Farm Insurance, I should let you park in my garage.

If you're willing to pay $5 a day and you plan to fly two or three days a week, it won't take too long before the $100 club membership becomes a good deal. Plus, look at all the good things you'll be doing for other folksother thanyourself.

2 or 3 times a month , i don't have that much time every week lol, and trust me i've thought about just joining but then the what if i leave florida to go here or there or back to virginia, then i'm out the money and time and really i'm not that much of a people person i'm always looking for the times when no one is around i'm very solitary (okay anti-social ) , so really i need to be able to get along with the people involved and no offence to anyone but what i've delt with so far has been 60+ year old childern . and i know everone here has delt with these types so.
point takin' K-BOB that is 100% true

and yes the people i work for keep me locked away from the public, i work in the electronics field so not normally having to deal with people .

Yep, I wouldn't want you in my club either and I'm only 40. I think a little introspective look and you may discover the true underlying problem.

Joker, I wouldn't worry about it, MOST of this bunch here don't want any new ones anyway. I'd just go find me a good spot to fly by myself if I was there.

I got outta the ama, an we dropped the club charter also.
Guess what, our planes still fly just like they did before....hehe

Don't ya just hate that when it happens? Gets me in trouble too.

Regards
Frank

Our youngest is 13, our oldest is 80 plus. I'm now one of those 60 plus you talk about. When I started I was 30 and a 60 year old was a big help. Now he's in his 80's and can't fly anymone but still comes out and sits with us. When he wants to leave I help him up and to his car. Some day that will be me and you. Age may not play a role in the club. As far as events you don't have to be a member to fly at their field, but their money provided the field for the event. Come to my field as a guest and be weclomed. Stay 2 or 3 years, you'll need to be a member, but you don't need to cut the grass. Dennis

mr67stang ...........i'm an old ford guy myself but lets get something straight i am 42 and in all those years i never had to join any club mostly due to people with attitudes just like yours ...... i was asking this question because most anything that claims to have a sanctioning body normally dictate the rules out word ......to further your answer about me i went to the clubs flying field and i treat people the way i want to be treated and i was treated as a outsider i did not come here to ask this question to stir any pot nor did i think i would have to deal with some rambo with a keyboard the conversation was going along just fine and i was able to work through some of my questions i won't bother anyone anymore wouldn't want to upset the little ama'ers i'll stay the way i am and hang out with the "outlaw rc pilots" the ama is doomed with people like yourself in it ...........one day dude you'll need somewhere to fly your junk too and i hope the people you run into have your attitude .this just goes to show everyone some of these people don't want there clubs to grow there happy being a small group of disgruntled individuals that will stand and wonder in there own stupidity why no one wants to join them !!!!! ........let me thank you again mr67stang as these people in here almost had me fooled and you set me straight i will never join the ama and you should be happy you'll never cross my path mr67stang cause you being in ole' north carolina now how us hillbilly confederates from virginia can be


thanks to everyone that answered my question i am sorry there is always one that come off to stupid to breath the same air as the rest of us .and that is the same attitude that will keep killing the ama and clubs off

it's always easy to be brave in front of your computer !

i understand  there are alot of good people out there and in no way ment to point fingers sorry about that it's just the ones i've delt with in this certain club

dadstoybg........ see the world needs more people with that attitude and everyone would get along just fine i guess i'm guilty as charged for jugding the acts of a few and blaming everyone  

Any club could be warm and welcoming or aloof and snobby depending on which cars are in the parking lot when you happen to pull up. The big ones anyways.

Let me get this straight you expect to be able to fly at any field of your choice "two or three times a month" indefinately for years or more at any field of your choice across the country with only paying perhaps a token daily fee?

And furthermore you expect the AMA to mandate this to all clubs?

John

The way I see it it's up to each club whether to seek AMA sanctioning or not. If the club wants to be sanctioned then yes, it's going to have to follow the guidelines the AMA sets up for such clubs. In no way, shape or form does the AMA force anyone to join such a club if they don't choose to do so. It's up to the individual to decide. If your area doesn't have any non-sanctioned clubs, then it's still up to YOU to decide whether to join or not, whether to seek alternative flying sites or not.

I'm sorry if the inability to just wander on to any club's field and fly at will upsets some people, but that's how it is and <u>how it should be</u>. The club in my area requires all new members to prove their ability to fly before an instructor pilot and a member of the club board before they're allowed to fly solo. This isn't a simple "once around the pattern and land" proof either, but one that shows that you have full control of your aircraft in both normal and emergency situations. You aren't going to do that in a single day or even a single week. Yet what the OP seems to want is that this club allow anyone with a $5 bill in their pocket to walk onto the flight line and fly at will. Sure they may have an AMA card in their pocket but that's no guarantee that they have clue #1 about what they're doing with their aircraft! Remember, this last comment is coming from someone with just such a card, yet who fully understands that he will need to spend time with an instructor before he's let loose to fly on his own - that person, of course, being myself.