JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Double Post

Nitro777

Hey anyone ever think about the fact that if the AMA didn't exist we probably wouldn't even have frequencies to fly on!!!!!!!??   Therefore YOUR PRECIOUS CLUBS WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST!!! So before you go on making your club dues and membership all high and mighty, why don't you listen to the point he is trying to make?  With arcticcats idea the precious club will still get its preciuos money you bunch of cry babies..........

Nitro777

sorry arcticflyer for calling you arcticcat</p>

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

You bet your Bippy its about money and you sir are a dreamer, without that money that beautiful field you so strongly covet and are demanding a right to could not exist. Simple as that.


Also I stated a program that I worked out for the snowbirds and beyond that stated three days gratis as our friend and guest you can buy (Yes money!) a four month limited membership with with full flying privileges for four months at half membership price! Thats twenty bucks my friend. Yes its about money and if that is still to much for you then perhaps you should rethink your hobbies and friends, You are certainly not making any here. Its the cost of doing business and make no mistake a club is very much a busines albiet a non profit one.

Your demands that any field in the country run by a chartered club be opened up to you at your demand any time of the day Based only on your AMA membership is so absurd and totally unworkable (and that is precisely what you are demanding).

Agine do You Expect Every Club To Send You a Gate Key or Combo?

Sir what you are so fervently demanding based on ama membership and it is clearly a demand, Your true agenda comes through on each of your post's, Is indeed freeloading no matter how passionately you try to rationalize your thinking.

I hope you enjoy flying at the parks or wherever. Oh by the way the are many parks now charging daily use fees for parkie flyers up to five bucks and more and that is the parks departments not the AMA clubs that do exist at some of those sites. Now lets see the AMA try to tell them folks (parks department) what to do, laughable.

Lets see now how much does the two or three weeks at five bucks a shot add up to.

Agine It is my opinion articflyer your obvious demands are absurd.

John

mewzella

I will gave to agee on the OGG, but that is just free entertainment.

But what are your written club rules? Who cares what OGG says? I still think removing the morse code requirement for Ham radio was wrong, I had to learn it so everyone else should too. Dang it I'm an OGG too.

I am not just pulling your chain, in our case the landowner requires restricted access to the field, so only club members have unlimited access. So someone has to be there for a visitor to fly. He has had problems with people driving across his property. We respect this and he treats us like family.

Most clubs have a limit rule, mostly to discourage local flyers who should support the club if they want to fly there. Just as you joined yours. And yes before someone bashes me..... yes we want their money. For all the reasons stated above, expenses to keep things running.

Most clubs have a web site these days, send a note to the President of the club, ask to discuss other options. I think most clubs are flexible with out of town visitors. Worked for me in two states.

This subject has been beaten to death on multiple threads, there will never be a resolution on a forum, but talking face to face or on the phone with the officer of the club might just get you what you want and you won't have to type so much.

All of this is really just a waste of flying time. I do hope you are able to get a solution so you can enjoy your time and get some flying in.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Wow....this is a sensitive issue, isn't it? [X(]

I live reasonably close to two fields (one of which I am a member of) and about an hour from two more fields. One of the close fields is rarely ever maintained and only about five members left alive fly there. I called and they are cool with me flying a few times, but I would need to join if I fly more than that and I totally respect that rule. For me the maintenance is a bit much to just fly a couple times.

Needless to point out (but I will anyway), an hour drive away is a bit far and I want to fly if I visit those fields. I especially like one of them and some of our current club members are members of that club, but for me that is not feasible (distance). It would definitely be nice to be able to have some sort of temp membership or pay-to-fly setup.

I can go as a guest of one of the members but that is very inconvenient because we fly at different times. Maybe a pay-to-fly would work out great instead of paying a full membership to fly maybe a dozen times is not feasible.

Maybe this is something that can be brought up at club meetings to implement change. It seems that I am not the only one that would use such a service.

Vettdriver

It's called reciprocation. It's actually quite common with country clubs.

If I belong to such & such a club and will be visiting my brother in another area and wish to play a round or two of golf at his club I don't have to pay full price as a guest.
They let me play for the price of the cart and my club would do the same if the situation was reversed.

These argreements are obviously in place in advance.

While I don't believe you could/should mandate this pratice, it would be nice if their was a standard practice for such situations.
Perhaps a national list that clubs could then opt-in with their participation.
The list of chartered clubs in the nation is already maintained.

Simply ad a line to their existing info.

Club: Anytown RC Club
Location: Anytown, USA
Established: 1975
Runway Surface: Concrete
Runway Length: 400'
Reciprocation: Yes

It's just an idea [sm=50_50.gif]


To clarify . . . . I'm not talking about an hour away 4 or 5 times a year.
That's what associate memberships are for.
I'm talking vacations or long weekends in different places each time.

arcticflyer

John- I'm not trying to pick a fight (life's to short for that) but have you REALLY read what I have written. My sweet BIPPY is more than willing to fork over the cash....my point is not MONEY it is ACCESS........................................ACCE SS..............................and the only person on this thread that seems to be upset by a mere suggestion of a national visitor policy is yourself.

Like Vettdriver suggested the club could opt in or out of the policy. Don't worry I would'nt go to a club that did not opt in because that club is probably full of OGG's[:@]

I agree Vettdriver there possibly needs to be a distance mine is over (2,000miles)!

Tarasdad

Call the club contact and explain your situation, then see if there's something you an work out short of a full membership fee. That's what I'd do, and what I'd expect someone else to do if they wanted to fly at our club while on vacation/visiting relatives/etc. But don't expect open access simply because you have an AMA card, that's simply absurd. As an AMA member I full expect to have to follow club rules if I visit someone else's flying field. It's always been that way, and that's the way it should remain.

arcticflyer

I guess what we have to define, if this is to remain a discussion and I want it to, is what is OPEN ACCESS? Anyone like to start............?

I would never tread underfoot the local rules and as far as I am concerned is not an issue in this discussion.

Tarasdad

It's you that started the thread, so you should be the one to give your definition of "open access" first. Tell us what you feel should be offered. Only then can we discuss it.

arcticflyer

Fair enough...let me give it some thought and I promise I will be reasonable.

JohnB96041

I am so thankful that I have my own flying field. 80' x 300' of kept cut grass. No trees, buildings or highline wires. The only restriction to use my field is just let me know when you are going to fly. I may come out and fly with you or just come by to take some pics. Happy Flying at the Apache Oklahoma Brown/Mindemann Flying Field.

Hossfly

Your posting is about the same as AMA question 93 responses a few minutes ago.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9792561/tm.htm

No, the clubs are CHARTED by the AMA.

Possibly correct, yet I believe clubs exist and many would still continue to exist, AMA Charter or not, due to the efforts of the club members. I belonged to several different clubs from Houston, TX, to Savannah, GA, to Laredo, TX, and to Chicagoland, IL before the AMA Charter became the socially acceptable thing to do. AMA definitely has made things better and easier, yet the clubs would (could?) have survived. Can you prove differently?

Why did you not find out who would be a "sponsor" from the folks you spoke with? Nothing like asking those that know the CORRECT answers? [sm=49_49.gif]

Then if not willing to pay the club dues to fly there, then you don't belong there. Do you play Golf? Here in Houston, $75 to $100 for 18 holes is the standard DAILY rate for sport golf green fees. Ya' wanna' play ya' gotta pay! Sport RCers are generally a very CHEAP group of people. If money is NOT the object as you have stated, then join the clubs. Then you can play as you want to.
I belong to 4 clubs. My main club, I am a LIFE member as well as a number of retirees are. The other clubs, I joined because I like the people and I fly at events they host. One club I seldom fly at, but if I do go there to fly, I have paid the dues and am a member therefore I do not have to feel guilty because I contribute almost nothing to the heavy maintenance and care they perform for their facility.

Maybe it would be if the field was "SANCTIONED" by the AMA. However there ain't no such critter so get over it.

CHARTER: a written instrument from the authorities of a society creating a lodge or branch
SANCTION: a mechanism of social control for enforcing a society's standards. explicit or official approval, permission, or ratification.


Now ref. the 3 days or whatever. At Jetero, Joe Blow shows up. Fast learner, after 3 visits he is making landings but not safe for flying alongside others. After taking an instructor's (a guy that pays club dues and donates his precious earthly bound time for someone else's benefit) time and patience, Joe the Blower hauls behinder and goes out to some outlaw place and proceeds to fly as he desires. I have absolutely ZERO respect for those that do so.

AS A CLUB AND INTRO PILOT INSTRUCTOR, I refuse to teach landings or go beyond 3 sessions unless the student joins the club.
I do not waste my precious time with spoiled freeloaders that have the emotions/thinking of spoiled children. SPOILING is reserved for my grandchildren and I do plenty of that.

How about this example of a club Bylaw?

[b]SECTION 7
(September 27, 2007)[/b]

No person, as a guest, may engage in flight activity at the Club more than three (3) times in any
consecutive twelve (12) calendar month period.

Exceptions to the above stated twelve-month rule are permitted, and those exceptions are limited
to the following:

1. The Guest actually resides outside one hundred (100) straight-line statute miles from
the Club's Flying Facility, and is a current member of the AMA. and is a member of
another currently effective AMA Chartered Club. Such person may participate at the
Club for up to and including, but not more than eight (8) days per calendar year, as a
specific Guest of any/all Jetero member(s).

2. Any current Club member that has a guest-in-house (regardless of the actual
sleeping quarters) may allow the guest to participate at the field with the member, if such
guest is an AMA member, for a period not more than twenty (20
consecutive days, or 2 periods of ten (10) consecutive days in any calendar year.
The limit periods may not be interchanged, or divided.

3. Attendance at Club advertised events and public fly-ins are not considered days for
the guest limit.

4. Individuals, whether AMA members or not and not a current member of Jetero RC Club, Inc.,
while actively participating in a Jetero RC Club, Inc. sponsored portion of AMA’s TAG
program, will not be restricted to current guest limitations during those days that are part of
Jetero’s administered TAG operations.

Pita

My Feedback: (31)

There is a distinct difference between a visitor that lives local and wants to take advantage of a club member's hard work and a visitor that is only in town occasionlly and enjoys flying with fellow AMA members sharing the hobby we all love. In my opinion the occasional out of town flyer visiting the area should be welcomed to fly at no cost as a good jester of the host club. Any local flyer trying to take advantage of the hard work and expense of others should be restricted from flying. Most three day flying rules at club fields are intended to introduce new people to our hobby which is a different issue than what the original question suggests.

All clubs have different economical and geographical situations. Most rules governing the flying field are divided by safety and management. I do not think anyone wants AMA to get involved with the management of every flying site. This would not only take control away from the local club it would greatly raise the cost of AMA membership which is too high to begin with.

This is only my opinion as the president of our local club.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Most clubs need all the support they can get. If money truely isn't the issue, then I would advise the OPto showhis support andjoin the club.That is the simple solution and everyone wins.

ira d

The example in quote is basically what I had in mind and somthing I think the AMA should try
to work out.

edh13

My Feedback: (9)

<font size="2">

Vettedriver nailed it, great idea and well explained. One of the few posters that actually understood the OP. Too many others on here piping in without reading or understanding the whole thread.</p></font>

Arbo

WOW. I can see how that attitude can drive people away. Small suggestion, actually read the posts the thread starter made. He clearly said he wasn't looking for a free ride....

Arbo

Wow, another one... No wonder so many clubs get a bad rap. (And to think those on the AMA's forum sit over there and whine about this forum being full of anti-ama people with attitudes... perhaps a mirror is in order)

And a good club will welcome people in, be it through understanding they are only there a few days a year and offering an associate program or charging a day fee or just letting them fly. We are all in the same
hobby, have the same interest in aircraft... get together and quit playing greedy capitalist.

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Having a reciprocation tag in the AMA Cartered Club database would be acceptable. That is a long way from having the AMA or anyone else mandating who accesses club property. By now you should be able to see that as soon as you suggest delegating local control over to a national association you will encounter stiff resistance.

You, and the OP of the"AMA Question" thread, cameacross toothers with a sense of entitlement that is off putting. How you could expect anything other than resistance?

Join the freakin' club already. Most clubs I have come across have the three visit rule. If you're goingto fly more than three times you need to pony up.

p51Dpony

I like the "club reciprocating" idea, where clubs agree to let each other members fly there for no additional cost.  The last two clubs I've been in were rural  and membership #'s were always small, if someone showed up with a plane and an AMA card they were our guest, free to fly as much as they want for as long as they want, come to think of it our club had no dues other than on occasional get together to mow or general maintainance.  I enjoy the OGG's mentioned above, but more problematic are the KIA's (know-it-alls), the GAAA's (general-all-around-*******s), the MARFEDTK's (make-a-rule-for-every-damn-thing-known).  Problematic but loved are the NPEWTC's (new-project-every-weekend-to-crash). [8D]

Arbo

Didn't come across that way to me. Seems to only have come across that way to a few people... but that may be because they did not actually read the whole posts before that
jerking knee kicked in.

How arrogant. If I head thousands of miles across the country to visit my mother and happen to take a plane, I am more than willing to pony up for an associate membership or
pay daily or some such... but if I'm out there for two weeks and the weather is good, so I might get 4 or 5 days at the some field, I'm not paying for a full membership, as I do not
live in that state, and it will be the only time I spend at the field for years. Perhaps if a club doesn't have the associate thing, they should consider it, over raping other AMA members
due to their own greed (asking for full membership for 4-5 days a year is exactly that).

I am thankful that the club I am president of is full of modelers and fliers and folks interested in the hobby and sharing and talking about the hobby, and because of that welcomes
visitors...

ira d

I dont understand why people keep using the termMANDATINGby the AMAand DELEGATINGcontrol over to the AMA because no one has suggested that

iflircaircraft

I feel it reasonable to allow an AMA member to fly at any club field he/she wants for as many times as he/she wants whether another member is present or not. FREE OF CHARGE
However, our club has 35 members. Of these 35 members, at least 25 visit the CLUB field less than 6 times a year.
Dues for members is $5.00 a month. Dues cover the cost of field maintenance,etc. Even the one or two guys who VOLUNTEER to cut the grass still pay dues.
So, let's just say the 25 members who come to the field only 6 times a year figure if a visitor can use the field 6 times a year FREE OF CHARGE than why should they pay dues?
How long do you think we would be able to keep the flying site we do have going?
Then there would be one less AMA Chartered flying site.

Tom