jester_s1

If you shoot them they will stop trespassing on your club's property.

Now to contribute something useful to the thread, If the signage doesn't stop these goons, making an example of one by having him arrested for trespassing (or more likely, escorted off the property by the police) will do wonders for controlling all the others. It takes one guy actually getting nailed for the club to get a reputation that they don't play around, and then other flyers will either join or stay away. If you budget allows, some security cameras near your gates or pit area to catch tag numbers would come in handy in the event of vandalism.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Interesting points dbcisco.

We often forget that when a man trespasses he is at the fault of his trespass. Does not a man know he is doing wrong when he steps accross the line? Absolutely, but he chooses to violate core principles. He thinks his rights outweight the rights of those that he violates (the landowner or lessee) when in actuality he has no right to trespass at all. I am just sick of the laws we have today. When an illegal alien is somehow given some sort of rights because he is illegal? What part of trespassing can we not understand?

I don't use weapons, but would if I need to to protect my family. I would shoot then we can discuss God issues later. Just because someone says that they have a right to defend what they own or lease then others assume they want to murder someone! Not me. A man has a right by law to defend his property. I believe there is a higher law that is obligatory (at least I believe that).

I have read stories of men going to jail because they shot a robber! We are implying that someone broke into their home...a robber. Think about that for a moment. What if the same robber raped your children? Yeah, now it makes a difference don't it? If I trespass on your property and you shoot me who is in the wrong? Now if I accidentally crossed your property and did not know then I am ignorant. It is all about intent isn't it? A man does wrong because he chooses to do wrong. What if the trespassers decides to do more wrong? Maybe he decides next time since he can trespass without any consequences the he can go ahead and steal someones radio.

jester_s1

Seriously though, I haven't seen a post yet that actually advocates shooting anyone. A few have made the leap in their own minds that some of us Southerners want to do that, but I don't see it in the actual posts made. I'm a proficient shooter and always have a gun. And I would not hesitate to perforate anyone who threatened my safety or the safety of another innocent. They way I see it, if a man chooses to be a criminal and become a danger to others, he's given up his rights to personal safety. But I, like many of my peers, am also a committed Christian and value human life and peace above all else. If I catch a trespasser on my land, I will show my weapon and tell him to wait face down on the ground for the police to arrive. If he complies, he will be fine. If he runs, then he runs and I'll let him go. But if he makes a threatening move at me, I'll deal with it and call the police back and tell them they'll need an ambulance when they get there. At the flying field, I wouldn't show my weapon but I would call the police after one (and only one) request for them to leave. If they refused, I would act like I'm not going to push the issue and wait for the police to get there. The weapon won't come out unless they get belligerant.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I just can't believe this thread. all the talk about gun play in regards to model flying...where are we going...to hell in a hand bag?

It is pretty simple...if there are those flying models that you wish weren't there and have no right to be there, don't be friendly and hope they will join your friendly club...call the police, build fences, install locked gates, hire security guards...keep those model flying scoundrels out by all means...and if all that doesn't work just kill them...damn them model flying people...damn them...they are a hard core criminal type and precautions need to be taken...I won't go to field again without my gun ever again...never can tell...someone with a Super Cub might show up without the proper credentials and I just might have to shoot him...and his son...
Do you guys think I should bring my sawed-off 12 gauge or my 44 Mag...oh heck I'll just bring both...I think I'll also put a little derringer in my flight box with my glow plugs.

andboy

My Feedback: (4)

Heh. A loong while back I saw something that has prooved itself many times since.

Many discussions / arguments with Americans will end in talk of firearms, whilst many discussion / arguments with Brits will end by quoting Monty Python.

I myself am rather confused. I am a Brit living in Texas!

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

Usually a gate will stop non members from coming on your property and flying. If they can't get their car in it is not likely that they will be so determined to fly that they will pack their support gear and plane in and out for a flying session.
Gates won't do much good for vandals and thieves as they have a very different agenda.

As someone else pointed out here, there are those that want to fly without paying their share for the privilege.
They seem to use some form of the theme that includes the idea that "I have the right to fly because I have a model." The fact that they can afford a model and transportation but not money for a place to fly is almost irrevelant to this type of person. They seem to think that your place to fly should be open and free to them because they just don't have the money today but it sure is good flying weather.

groovy67

My Feedback: (1)

Shooting people is not the answer,though some may need to be shot...lol. Just get the toughest guy at the field to run them off or call the police. At our field we have the problem of members bringing their whole family out and putting up tents adjacent to the runway.One plane out of control and hitting someone could shut the field down.I feel that only the member and one spotter should be allowed near the runway.Everyone else can stay behind the fence and still watch the planes fly.
I live in south Florida and the problem gets worse because most of these people don't speak English or refuse to understand what you are trying to tell them.Many of the people that have flown at this field for decades are looking elsewhere to fly(private clubs) before someone gets hurt or in a fight that shouldn't happen.We even have a gigantic rule board posted and "these people" seem to ignore it.

It's sad that some idiot will cause the whole field to shut down because they think that they are above the rules.
Oh hell,now I'm ready to shoot someone!

willig10

I am assuming you have a set of officers in place for your new club. If so here are some suggestions to help you guys out.

1. First install a gate and lock that only members have access to.
2. Install placards on the fence that state this field is for members and their guests only.
3. The standard AMA rules apply etc etc.

4. If you have observed guys flying that are not club members and they refuse to join, inform them that it is a private club and simply ask them to leave. If they refuse call the police and have them removed.

5. I know you dont want to create a lot of animosity and as a side note next to joining you might consider a daily usage fee. Place a box (locked of course) for the guys who dont want to join. However if they continue to freeload see #4.

6. Next to a locked gate, I think you are going to see a few people come out and not fly unless you get on top of this now and nip it in the bud. You might even post a sign on your frequency board to inform them that the police will be called to have a non member removed.

If they do not perceive that the club is serious about freeloading then they will continue their exhibited behaviour. Someone at your club has to grow a set of Balls and have a type A personality and be able to explain to them what it takes to fly at your field.

That said I would like to say this. Times are hard and some of those guys might want to join but not have the funds on hand to join. Ask them up front what their intentions are and if they refuse to join or commit to a future join date inform them of the clubs rules.

I believe that all clubs should have a visitors policy and typically it allows non members to fly once or twice a quarter. Any more than that and it is an abuse of the visitation policy. Hence the daily usage box for non members. I believe if they dont want to join but can afford a daily usage fee. Your club can at least get some additional funds from the non club members.

My 2 cents.

Glenn

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

>>>>At our field we have the problem of members bringing their whole family out and putting up tents adjacent to the runway.

OH, this is going too far! WOW....tents, next it will be RV camping...maybe even put up some small housing projects HAHHAHHAHAHA Hopefully you don't have to shoot 'em all! Maybe the campers will give you a small section to fly your RC planes.

psb667

sorry johny didnt know you always flew above the pits. were trying to figure out how to get rid of the guy who flys right over the pits at our field to.

pflynn73

My Feedback: (20)

Man I miss Texas.

echolmberg

I know we could never do this but how funny would it be to have three or four guys manning the anti-aircraft guns (eg. BB guns) at the end of the runways? Personally I'm all for the one poster who mentioned the 12 ga and saying to the offender "ya gotta land sometime." A plane blown out of the sky after a dozen unheeded warnings would probably send a loud and clear message. Again, I know we really can't do this out of safety measures but it's still funny none-the-less.

Eric

Hemikiller

My Feedback: (125)

Have to agree with Glen 100%.

As our club's treasurer, this is something I deal with on a fairly regular basis.

Our field is gated, locked and posted with plenty of signage. We've never had to go as far as involving the authorities, but we have our fair share of members that try to get away with not renewing and still flying.

The best approach is to try to draw them into the fold. If they decide they still want to be a freeloading lone wolf, then they can't fly at your field, period, even if you have to get the police involved.

DISCUS54

My Feedback: (211)

You guys are funny! You can do two things...put a gate up with a combo lock and publish the code to members. There will always be a few members who pass that info on to a few non-members....sooo then you can post an OFFENDER BOARD. The club info board would work. Take a picture of the OFFENDER/S and post their picture (similar to the convenience stores that post bounced checks at the counter) SHAME is an effective tool in fighting FREELOADERS. An effective caption or title to this area would be something like "New Members Wanted" or "Freeloader Rehabilitation Zone" and don't forget to post some membership applications there...really good for those who have not had their picture taken yet. For the worst offenders....and I'm talking about the zero's that would vandalize the board.....turn it over to law enforcement. By the way....set up GAME CAMERAS aimed at your facilities while this "transition" is going on....for evidence to turn over to law enforcement..if warrented. Surely you would want to encourage non-members to join...and give them every chance to participate...including the funding, of your site. The situation is sad, because this attitude is rampant....here in Arizona. People move here for all the benefits....but they don't pay anything into it.....how long do you think that house of cards will last?

andboy

My Feedback: (4)

Best idea ever!

Then shoot them... ;-)

Just to be clear, this is HUMOUR (that's right, with a U!

Sport_Pilot

The only newbies who would come to that conclusion is someone who doesn't bother to read the entire post. Nobody suggested shooting a trespasser, only that laws in some states allow it, which is true, but only if they are doing damage.

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

Getting back to reality and leaving fantasy behind...

As others have said: Lock the gate and post signs.

One club that I know of posts an additional informational sign listing the amount of money that their field costs them to maintain each year: lease, mowing, fertilizer, water, shelter, maintainence, paving etc and invites any non member visitors to join the club and help keep the cost of flying at the field as low as possible.

Our semi public field has two signs: "This field leased and maintained by the Fort worth Thunderbirds" Next to that one is another: "Are you a Thunderbird? If not, you OUGHT to be!"

We also give members tiny Thunderbird stickers for their AMA card. That way, you can tell at the frequency board who is a member and who might not be (We do have a generic freq board area for those on 2.4, although the frequency board is not as useful as it used to be!)

Even though it does not reach everyone and some will never join, it is best to take the high road and for the club to be approachable and friendly. As the old saying goes, you get more flies with honey than with vinegar...

Sport_Pilot

All states allow lethal force under certain circumstances. Most do not allow you to kill if say they are stealing from you or destroying property. Some do. But even in Texas the trespasser must be at least appearing to be stealing or destroying property.

bogbeagle

In the UK, trespass is not a crime. It has nothing to do with the police ... unless there is criminal damage or violence associated with it. It is a Civil matter.


It would be insane to have laws which allow you to kill someone for the mere act of trespass. That would be an invitation to murder ... discreetly invite someone onto your property, then kill them.


The crime, if any is committed, is not in the fact that you have dared set foot upon another's land, but in the damage or loss which you cause. Where there is none, there is no crime.


It's also easy to construe of occasions in which someone may trespass "in good faith"... having been misinformed; or mistaken; or perhaps just under the influence of a few beers. I appreciate that this probably is not pertinent to the flying field in question.

dbcisco

According to Comcast (and many others) theft of service is stealing and a criminal offense. So trespassing to use your property for a purpose that others are paying for is stealing. We are not talking about people taking a shortcut through your yard. Yes, you can protect your property from such criminal activity.

Super Kupfer

Personally I think that the government should support community services like RC Flying and build RC fields as public areas for anybody who wants to enjoy the hobby of RC flying as it is done in some countries (they build basketball,baseball fields, Why can't they build RC fields?).

That way we wouldn't have these kind of problems.

Here in CANADA or I should say Vancouver it's a ***** to get a membership in a club (I have been waiting for over 2years on the list to get in).
Everytime I want to fly I have to go as a visitor with one of our members (Sucks *****).

I WOULD PAY DOUBLE JUST TO BE ABLE TO GET IN.

Before I used to fly from somebodies farm but now that I'm getting into the big stuff it helps to have a runway.

bogbeagle

How can it be theft? The flying club is offering no service of which the trespasser is taking advantage.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

That is another interesting point. The fact that a moocher FLYING RC planes is really not ONLY a trespasser: "someone who intrudes on the privacy or property of another without permission"

One mooching by USING the flying field is stealing space that belongs to those that are official members of the club. To steal: "take without the owner's consent"

So here is the official take so far: Someone intruding on the privacy or property of another and taking without the owner's consent. (Theft and trespassing)

Yep, time to line them up in front of the firing squad

They have broken two laws and just think they must be breaking a TON of other laws [X(]

chrisdev01

I am formerly an officer at my club in Katy, Texas, Space City RC. Ours is a private club for members only.

Our facility has signs posted and has a combo locked gate.

I think the best course of action is to welcome the tresspassers with an inviting and friendly tone.

Encourage them to join. Tell them what the membership benefits are.

Do this every time you see them.

If after a resonable number of attempts (like three) to get them to join fails, then have two or three members confront and politely ask them to leave.

If they refuse to leave, call the Sherrif's Department and inform the offender that you have called Johnny Law and they had better leave.

By the way, I have my Texas Concealed Weapons Permit and I am armed pretty much 24 / 7. The only way I am going to produce my weapon is if I intend to use it.
I will ONLY use it to protect my life or the life of an innocent bystander. While completey legal as an escalation of force under certian circumstances, absolutely nothing good can come from brandishing a firearm in an effort to get some one to comply. You do not produce your gun unless you intend to kill.

formerbug

My Feedback: (1)

I can't imagine using deadly force to stop someone from trespassing or trying to steal my property.Pose a threatmy family, that's a different matter, but if Icatch a guy going out the back door of my house, I'm not going to shoot him because he refuses to put down the TV. A prior poster said it, there are higher laws here. I might shoot the TV to destroy its worth, but a human life is worth far more than anything I could buy.