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Keeping Non Members off the field

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Keeping Non Members off the field

Old 08-10-2010, 09:44 PM
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PLANE JIM
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Default Keeping Non Members off the field

I would like suggestions that would help keep trespassers off the field-we have a new club that has been formed on leased land-we have placed post in the ground along the acces to the road side of the field with a simple driveway into the pit area-This is a new field that was a garbage dumping ground for many years that we have cleaned up and back filled and leveled. We are constantly finding someone flying that is not a member nor desires to join a club-Short of putting a chain up and locking it down, would you think signs indicating in our covered pit area would help deter this or would it cause someone to be offended and cause vandalism.

I have found several guys flying and they are established in the rc arena-in other words they should know better. I have given them applications to join and invited to come back with the completed application and this still continues. Our dues are less than $50.00 per year with covered pits and 50 acres to fly over and a 700 foot by 125 foot grass runway.

We are a new club and our monies are limited but we are growing with our roster at 56 members and we stated 01/01/10

thanks for any insight you could give me-jmc
Old 08-10-2010, 09:50 PM
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ggraham500
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

Combination lock and chain on a gate does work.
Old 08-10-2010, 09:52 PM
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dbcisco
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

As long as you invited them to join and explained matters to them, arrest them for trespassing next time they do it.
Old 08-10-2010, 11:28 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

ORIGINAL: PLANE JIM

I would like suggestions that would help keep trespassers off the field-we have a new club that has been formed on leased land-we have placed post in the ground along the acces to the road side of the field with a simple driveway into the pit area-This is a new field that was a garbage dumping ground for many years that we have cleaned up and back filled and leveled. We are constantly finding someone flying that is not a member nor desires to join a club-Short of putting a chain up and locking it down, would you think signs indicating in our covered pit area would help deter this or would it cause someone to be offended and cause vandalism.
Jim, not knowing the terms of your lease, I cannot be exactly correct, however in most cases - you may wish to have your attorney advise you ref. the lease-terms - a lease gives you the rights to the property. That means that you can post the land and keep tresspassers out. Posts with 4 ft of purple paint means Posted-Private Property. Of course a sign stating Posted, Private property should be erected along the roadway.

Now in Texas, trespassing is a very serious thing especially for the tresspassers. You have the right to use deadly force if a trespasser breaks in or will not remove himself from the property when asked to do so. A chain, a lock and a couple posts with signs to keep-out should do the trick. If trouble happens, you can call the sheriff, and detain the perpetrators until the law officers arrive. There is an advantage to having a CHL! [sm=devious.gif]

The Crosby Club had that problem for years. Finally they did the posts with a swinging gate-pipe and a sign. AFAIK, no one has entered and destroyed anything for 3 years now.
Here at Jetero we have 2 pipes that come together with a chain and dual locks. One for the club and one for the farmer that leases our hay. (Just great leasing TO the farmer) We have had no wheelies on the runway and only one tractor stolen in 15 years. And we are right on a state highway!

Good luck to you.






Old 08-10-2010, 11:49 PM
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dbcisco
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

"You have the right to use deadly force if a trespasser breaks in or will not remove himself from the property when asked to do so"
I love it.
In Pa you only have that right on your porch, patio or entryways. Of course a sign saying "Lethal Force Authorized" with the appropriate law code cited on it keeps the literate ones away..
Old 08-11-2010, 02:28 AM
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vpresley
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

dbcisco

Wow your at it again. No, deadly is not authorized, except in defense of yourself or others when deadly force is used against you. Just common sense. Which you seem to seriously lack a great deal of. Call the police is the best thing to do in most situations. Take names, license plate numbers etc etc. You seem to want to stir things up, by making outrageous statements like the one above in the forums. I am not sure of your motives. But they are not in keeping with MOST MODELERS beliefs. So lighten DUDE and give us all a break from this vitriolic rhetoric you spew.

Vince


Who in his right mind would even consider using deadly force against someone just for trespassing on an R/C Field? No one I know of, PA or no. Its so pathetic to even consider it. That kind of thought is just sick.
Old 08-11-2010, 02:36 AM
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Tarasdad
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

Verify the terms of your lease with an attorney as suggested above. If it gives your club the right to control access then it's time to put up NO TRESPASSING signs at the entrance and your covered pit area. Those who ignore the signage can then be subject to arrest and prosecution.
Old 08-11-2010, 04:28 AM
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dbcisco
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field


I suggest you read the PA statutes. What you seem to be referring to is the use of lethal force outside the home. The law regarding private residences is different and was recently amended to extended "inside your home" to include patios, decks and entrances, it also removed the "retreat" proviso.
Having a carry permit requires demonstration of knowledge of the laws regarding firearms. Yes, I have one.

Please know what you are talking about before bashing people.
Old 08-11-2010, 08:08 AM
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foodstick
 
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

We have had trouble in our area with people pushing gates down for fun..

Or so it seems..
Old 08-11-2010, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

If you do use a gate. Make sure it is very visable at night. Don't want someone running into it and calling it a hazzard. It has happened in the past with a teanage motercyclist. Dennis
Old 08-11-2010, 11:15 AM
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gzkpez
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

Signs. They are the first step and are needed. Some that say "No Flying except by Members and their Guests" ; another that state the Clubs name and the requirements to join, safety requirements and room for announcements. And others still for General Public so they do not wonder on the field. I know signs make a good target so make replaceable ones. Signs and safety fencing makes the field look much better in my opinion, it looks like a model flying field instead of a hay (etc.) field.

At 50 dollars to join it sounds like a good deal. Some people need to be asked to join a couple of times, explain the benefits to them and you. Have a "fly-in" to show your club off, and invite all AMA members to fly that day; at the fly in be setup to take instant members.

Are these repeat individuals? Are they young (don't know any better yet) or old (to set in their ways)? Are they damaging the place? Did they fly there last year? Are they some sort of local official, or the owner of the property or adjacent property?

As for the other comments about use of force, it is not a domicile nor a farm/ranch; besides it is not good to terminate potential new members. Even calling the local authorities has a real downside that should not be over looked; but sometimes calling is needed. You want to be inviting not necessarily to these scofflaws, but to others including your current members and their families; actions you take against some individuals effect how others view you (even unfairly).

If they are real pains take pictures and post the pictures of them on a sign and say this means you.
Old 08-11-2010, 11:30 AM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

"As for the other comments about use of force, it is not a domicile nor a farm/ranch; "


its Texas,
we grease the treads of our tanks with their living guts
Old 08-11-2010, 01:07 PM
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Jim Thomerson
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

We folks here in Texas go by Texas law. Hossfly's statements are correct according to Texas law.
Old 08-11-2010, 01:42 PM
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dbcisco
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

I don't think the majority of people realize that different states have different laws concerning the use of lethal force. Texas has a long history of upholding the right to protect your private property as well the right to carry and use firearms.
Old 08-11-2010, 05:01 PM
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gzkpez
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

I was not saying Hoss is wrong about shooting "trespassers"; if they are told by the landowner not to be there then it is a criminal trespass, and subject sanctum. There is a problem of a lease vs an owner telling a belligerent what to do. If the lessee is a club does that make every member an agent in the club to tell them to leave? What rights has the landowner granted others?

Just because it is legal does not make it the right thing to do. Starting with the signs first is good idea. ,then a gate.

The only individual I knew who shoot a trespasser and got in trouble was when I was a guest in Huntsville TX area. I had lunch with him and some friends the day before. He ended up being incarcerated for about a year waiting for his trial. Then he was cleared. I had a real problem with why he was locked up, but I guess as the saying goes it is better to face a 12 man jury then St Peter. He ended up loosing his job, and then moved.
Old 08-11-2010, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

Texas knows how to do things right. I think that I am going to move.
Old 08-11-2010, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

I thought this was a forum about keeping non members from flying....not a forum on how to kill someone and justify it.
Old 08-11-2010, 06:02 PM
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dbcisco
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field


ORIGINAL: Johnny_Zero

I thought this was a forum about keeping non members from flying....not a forum on how to kill someone and justify it.
The topic arose and the posts followed.
Why do you have a problem with jusifiable homicide?
No one is supporting murder.
Old 08-11-2010, 06:25 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

I have nothing against "Justifiable Homicide", but does this REALLY have anything to do with keeping non members from flying without membership. I guess they could attack you with a spare prop or maybe a pair of plyers and then that would be "Justified".
Old 08-11-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field


ORIGINAL: Johnny_Zero

I thought this was a forum about keeping non members from flying....not a forum on how to kill someone and justify it.
True, however, if you do all the right things to warn people that they are breaking the law and they push back, then they will feel the consequences of their stupid actions.

Our small group flies off private property and we do have signage to warn potential trespassers. Only once we needed to point out to unwanted visitors that it would be advantageous to their health to leave. They did so, promptly. Maybe them seeing our visible means of defense had something to do with their prompt compliance.

God bless Texas.

Bliksem

PS - My humble opinion is that too much political correctness is destroying this great country. Freedom and resposibility are flip sides of the same coin. Both sides are inseperably joined.
Old 08-11-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

I am sure you see how utterly rediculous some of the above statements are, and the person making them. Act accordingly.

Vince
Old 08-11-2010, 06:57 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

And act responsibly... shoot their thumbs off!!! Problem solved.
Old 08-11-2010, 08:08 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

Gate and lock is probably the only way you are able to keep people off the land.  As sad as that is, it is true. 

And vpresley, do you honest really believe that anyone here will shot someone for flying as a non member at a field.  They are talking about different laws and rights in different states.  calm down.
Old 08-11-2010, 08:11 PM
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dbcisco
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

My dad used to shoot in the air so the shotgun pellets rained down on the trespassers. Never had the same thieves twice.
Old 08-11-2010, 09:30 PM
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Default RE: Keeping Non Members off the field

Ok I can see the headlines. Man asked if he was a member of flying club and was shot onsight because he failed to show proff of membership. Remind me to never fly in Texas. This thread is just stupid. THIS IS TEXAS LAW FROM THE LAW BOOKS. DEADLY FORCE CAN ONLY BE USED IF YOU ARE BEING HARMED OR THE LAND IS AND THIS IS THE ONLY MEANS TO RECOVER IT. I CANT BELIEVE MODLERS WOULD TALK THIS WAY ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS OVER PLANES. GOD BLESS!!!!!!!!! ITS AMERICA PEOPLE. HAVE SOME COMMEN SENCE.
http://equinelaw.alisonrowe.com/arti...operty-rights/
4) Secure the Property - If you know a trespass is imminent, lock the gate or take other measures to prevent entry upon the land. Call the sheriff or local police if you're in the city limits and let them know a trespasser is trying to get onto your property.

If, despite these efforts, someone trespasses on your property, the best thing to do is to call the sheriff and let them handle the trespasser. If for some reason you cannot have law enforcement intervene, Texas law (Section 9.41 of the Texas Penal Code) allows you to use "reasonable force" to protect your property. Reasonable force includes any force that is not potentially lethal. This would probably include physically blocking the trespasser's entry onto the land and perhaps even showing the trespasser that you have a gun and are prepared to use it if warranted. However, as discussed below, an actual discharge of a firearm, unless clearly not aimed anywhere towards the trespasser, may expose the land owner to unwanted scrutiny by law enforcement.

When is a landowner allowed to shoot at a trespasser? According to Section 9.42 of the Texas Penal Code, a landowner can shoot at or use other deadly force against a trespasser if the landowner reasonably believes the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means, or that the landowner himself would be exposed to substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury if the landowner does not use deadly force.

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