RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

With this example, I am of the opinion that Guy B should not get a dime.
Each and every time we go to the field we should take the responsibility of being injured.
While we want to blame someone, to me it is the same as if we go boating with a friend and he starts the boat, and I fall out.
If I drown, I don't expect my family to blame him. I should have not been on the boat if that was a concern.

Now the guy visiting is a different story.
If it is posted, then I would say that Guy A should take responsibility.
Especially if it is posted and he was personally notified.
Then in both cases, we know the USA court system will be ready to accept any case from this kind of incident.

My only concern would be from Guy C to make sure he is OK and he is the only one that is not considered.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

You are getting to the heart of it right now and that is that NOTHING is as simple as it looks at first. All kinds of things enter into it. Assumption of risk is one that you pointed out. Others are why did the pilot pass out?/ Was his belt too tight?/ Low blood sugar? A diabetic? Does he have any share of fault?? Was he under medication? Were there any other mitigating factors??

And I assure you that any party hurt in such an accident would have a lawyer on the case long before they even got out of the hospital. It is a fact of life.

But all this flies in the face of the certainty that the Internet has. No room here for the actual nuances of real life.

In a real life accident several things have to happen:

1 - the pilot needs to notify AMA HQ and file a report
2 - the injured parties need to file a claim against the insured's policy (AMA in this case)
3 - The insurance folks need to determine if the claim is valid. i.e. did the accident occur and was their insured to blame 100%. If not then things get complicated.


In all likelihood lawyers were involved between steps 1 and 2.

But the things I know for facts are that AMA does NOT try to deny coverage as a matter of course. They do make sure that all claims are valid and in accordance with the policy. Just like any other company would do. If they did not do these things there would be long threads here about how AMA just pays any old claim without any verification at all. Impeach the incompetent jerks!!!

As far as no member to member coverage, I have not seen that lately. The insurance summary and policy do not say this. They do say that a member's immediate family (those living with him) are excluded, but this is not atypical either. My homeowner's liability policy does the same thing. In other words, if my wife falls and hurts herself she cannot file a claim against our homeowner's policy or me. If your kid falls in your backyard, they can't sue you for it either. None of this is a typical, but it makes great fodder for the anti-AMA grist mill.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

NO

no the difference between bodily injury and personal injury? read the policy. unless U or your plane are, as an example, going around slandering an AMA member, most injury is gonna be covered.

U guys gotta quit reading the owners manual and the literature the dealer gives you and go to the document that actually explains how it works

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

I started this thread in an attempt to voice my opinion that I feel membership in the AMA is a good thing! I attempted to break down cost of dues to the ridiculous: I.E. $25.00 for a subscription to Model Aviation, $25.00 for the insurance coverage, leaving $8.00 to cover the lobbying done, Muncie, the Nats, some remuneration for the staff, etc, etc... It is unimportant if I have the costs right, only that the total truly does equal $58.00.

For the life of me I don't understand the animosity to-wards the AMA! However, to each, his/her own! However, to those of you whom do not like the AMA, I have to ask; Why do you join? It's not a good enough answer to say: Well, my club requires it! Find a club, or start one which doesn't require it. I understand the costs might be prohibitive; but, it's not my concern, as I am a member of the AMA and I get these services for what I feel is a very reasonable price, $58.00!

There has been some slighting of each other, from both sides over this simple issue! Had we all met at a fun fly, doing what for the most of us is our most enjoyable past time, we might have become friends! What is up with that?

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

Because my club and the ones I fly at require it. I'm glad your happy with the "services" . I don't want the magazine nor the Muncie site. Since I pay dues and am a member of this organization I have the right to have a say how OUR money is spent. I'm sure there is a lot of waste( as in any organization). You posted earlier that you would not support the AMA funding local sites. Seems like that should be one of the "services".

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

Need to add that Guy C is only one of others that is sued by Guy B. The site owner is sued. Since the site owner is relying on the AMA primary insurance, the AMA is sued too. The AMA insurance provider states clearly that they will not cover the liability of one member purloining another.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

I just called my personal liability provider and asked if the liability only covers me when I slander someone. Once he stopped laughing he stated that the personal liability covers that and any physical harm.

Need to read the PDF on the AMA website that IS the insurance underwriters contract. Not the Blue Sky stuff the AMA staff makes up.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

The insurance is less than $12 per member on average. Some years are more, some are less. This includes the cost of management. Most of what is left is to pay the 50 plus full time employees at Muncie. Ten years ago there were less than 25. Just how many does it take to make plastic membership cards???

Over 84% of the membership does not vote. To them AMA is required to fly where they want to. This captured membership is what has keep the AMA in business long past the time when it should have either folded or seriously changed it's practices.

Your professed contentment is founded on Blue Sky promises.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

Take your own advice.

Page 22 of 32 holds an exclusion for personal injury. No such exclusion for bodily injury. Took me a while to quit laughing at you, sorry for the delay.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

Right! As an AVP you don't know what's in the polices. Better resign.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

I just love target shooting!!!

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

Until Guy B is you!

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

now all you need is the definitions to show your complete lack of insurance knowledge.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

rcmikejet, I am a natural-born citizen of the great Republic of Texas, which is signed on to an organization called the United States of America. I do not like such "services" that this organization funds such as all the liberal do-gooders living off the public dole, millions of other citizens that refuse to work and donate to the organization, sending our better youth to fight in wars which the organization's powers have no intention of winning (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq) Foreign Aid, financial control of state educational systems, and a host of others, YET I am conscripted to "donate" to the "voluntary" Federal Income Tax each year an amount equal to many many times what the AMA charges me to be a member of its organization.

In addition just how many flying facilities have YOU funded? If you had any clue reference the cost of acquiring and developing real estate, especially in the vicinity of larger cities, then even YOU might not be so hot to make such a remark concerning AMA FUNDING local flying sites. Now if you reverse the question, the answer is one (1). That's my share, and your cue. [>:] You're on stage now!! [X(]

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

I am referencing the insurance summary. Sorry if I missed where it says no member to member bodily injury coverage.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/500-A.pdf

If I am not reading this correctly, then I apologize.

Hugh - Please review the difference between bodily injury and personal injury. The exclusion applies ONLY to personal injury.

And why do you care? You are not a member so what is your interest in this issue beyond just trying to prove how clever you are (not).

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

You did not read incorrectly. Bodily injury IS covered member to member. Personal and Advertising Injury is not.

Hint:

Definition of bodily injury is on page 12 of 32. Definition of as well as the exclusion of personal and advertising injury page 22 of 32 of AMA policy.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

So whats your point?

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

MA has to admit on the back page every month how it takes $18 from my ama $58.
MA ran last year with a $1mil Income, $2mil Spent plan... a recurring strategy for a big red ink cash hemorage full of ads

The Insurance is about $12ish says SCGG

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

So you are saying that the magazine actually made in excess of one million dollars when you take the subscriptions into account? Not too bad. Sounds like a nice accounting trick to avoid paying taxes, showing a loss. You take the number of members @18 and add that to the amounts earned by advertising (1 mil?), is that right? Then take the costs of 2 mil away?

Good point you make.

Where does he get those numbers? Policy shows cost of 429000 for one and 334000 for the other. how many members? whats that come to? sure he has some clue about what he posts?

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

losing money hand over fist is not an Nice Accounting Trick

They spent $2mil of the $1mil they took in.
Where did they get the other $mil? They took it from the membership.
You must subscribe to STLs theory that if they take $50 from each memeber, then MA would be very profitable for AMA and Return $32 per member as Profit. Deficit Spending is not a Nice Trick.

If you get $1mil, how much of that should you spend? The answer is not $2mil.
They run in the red cause nobody will hold them accountable for doing so. The more they mismanage the magazine, the more AMA will just give them to run redder. One big happy Muncie Family.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

That was your statment, not mine. If the AMA takes $18 of my dues, as you say they do, and if there are 150000 members, that is $2.700.000 taken from dues. YOU SAID THAT, not me. IF you then take the million that is raised in advertising and add it to the subscription income YOU STATED, and then take the $2,000,000 cost YOU STATED away, you are left with a profit of @1,700.000. ALL FROM THE NUMBER YOU STATED. Where do you think that $2,700,000 YOU POSTED ABOUT went?

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

in the immortal words of someone famous

CHIRP, CHIRP, CHIRP

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

I certainly hope your comments here are to show a shocking corolation to a line of thinking about AMA costs and apropriations. Because if you honestly feel that way about the United States and the "Republic of Texas" you can remove that avatar of yours because that 2nd amendment belongs to the United Stated of America NOT some so said republic. And I am a member of the US military and I support the efforts and ideals that the current administration of this great nation and what it is trying to get done despite the efforts of the general public to sling bipartisan mud around the real issues of national security and Homeland Defence. To think any nation or person would enter into a conflict without intended victory is rediculous. Do yourself a favor and turn off the Communist News Network and have a little faith that the leaders of this nation want what is best for it, yesturday, today and tommorow, reguardless of their party affiliation. Or of course... you can go start your own country.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

Either the AMA took the money as subscriptions, or they did not take the money. If they took it, they must account for it. if the accounting does not fit, you must acquit. guess you could UnSay.
use one of your UnSays now?

ps looked on the back page of all the mags here. no such thing as you say. maybe a GREAT time to use an UnSay.

RE: AMA is a real value!!
 

Maybe someone hear would be so kind to explain this exclusion and how it relates to us as insured.

Thanks in advance. page 23 of the pdf