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RE: AMA is a real value!!
Model.Flyer-
(if that is your real name) CHIRP, CHIRP, CHIRP Just when do you think I sleep? Egad! What do you want, my pager number so you can wake me up to reply to your comments? That was your statment, not mine. If the AMA takes $18 of my dues, as you say they do, and if there are 150000 members, that is $2.700.000 taken from dues. YOU SAID THAT, not me. IF you then take the million that is raised in advertising and add it to the subscription income YOU STATED, and then take the $2,000,000 cost YOU STATED away, you are left with a profit of @1,700.000. ALL FROM THE NUMBER YOU STATED. Where do you think that $2,700,000 YOU POSTED ABOUT went? use one of your UnSays now? MA Nov 06, page 183, gray box text: When membership in the AMA includes subscription to MA, $18 of the dues are for the subscription and lest see what I said: "MA has to admit on the back page every month how it takes $18 from my ama $58. " MA Aug 06, page 152: REVENUE ....MA Advertizing 991k ....MA Subscriptions 62k EXPENSES ....MA Magazine Direct Costs 2.2mil and what did I say, $1mil in $2mil out? so, No. I shant be needing one of my UnSays. My post was accurate, MA does indeed say they take $18 of my $58 AMA does indeed say $1mil in, $2mil out regarding MA I'll give you this, it isnt the back page, it is the next to back page, I was posting from recollection. While I said they take $18 from each member for their MA, I had no idea you wouldnt read that gray text to get the details on it prior to impuning my word. Maybe folks outside Texas dont know this, but calling folks a liar aint hospitable oh, and next time wait more than 2hours before implying folks are hiding from you Nice way to drag in a quote from another thread where we were thinking STL was missing... but that is probably completely unrelated. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy Model.Flyer- (if that is your real name) CHIRP, CHIRP, CHIRP Just when do you think I sleep? Egad! What do you want, my pager number so you can wake me up to reply to your comments? That was your statment, not mine. If the AMA takes $18 of my dues, as you say they do, and if there are 150000 members, that is $2.700.000 taken from dues. YOU SAID THAT, not me. IF you then take the million that is raised in advertising and add it to the subscription income YOU STATED, and then take the $2,000,000 cost YOU STATED away, you are left with a profit of @1,700.000. ALL FROM THE NUMBER YOU STATED. Where do you think that $2,700,000 YOU POSTED ABOUT went? use one of your UnSays now? MA Nov 06, page 183, gray box text: When membership in the AMA includes subscription to MA, $18 of the dues are for the subscription and lest see what I said: "MA has to admit on the back page every month how it takes $18 from my ama $58. " MA Aug 06, page 152: REVENUE ....MA Advertizing 991k ....MA Subscriptions 62k EXPENSES ....MA Magazine Direct Costs 2.2mil and what did I say, $1mil in $2mil out? so, No. I shant be needing one of my UnSays. My post was accurate, MA does indeed say they take $18 of my $58 AMA does indeed say $1mil in, $2mil out regarding MA I'll give you this, it isnt the back page, it is the next to back page, I was posting from recollection. While I said they take $18 from each member for their MA, I had no idea you wouldnt read that gray text to get the details on it prior to impuning my word. Maybe folks outside Texas dont know this, but calling folks a liar aint hospitable oh, and next time wait more than 2hours before implying folks are hiding from you Nice way to drag in a quote from another thread where we were thinking STL was missing... but that is probably completely unrelated. Then you come back with I should have gone out and looked for something you said was someplance and not where you said it was Now, you still seem to hold the position that the 18 is taken from each members dues. OK, BUT, BUT, BUT just where is the accounting for it in the financial statement? You could have and should have looked there before making your statement. The subscription income you claim is simply not accounted for. YOU ARE WRONG. Does that make you a liar? Not to my way of thinking. it just makes you uniformed or misinformed. accounting practices and the IRS rules involved in such accounting for unrelated businesses appear to be beyond your scope. Now you change your post and claim 62k subscriptions. Lets see, 62k divide by 18 dollars gives us 3444 AMA members. Yeah, you know what your doing NOT ps When did the AMA get so small? You really should use that UnSay before you get your foot in your mouth fruther. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf Maybe someone hear would be so kind to explain this exclusion and how it relates to us as insured. Thanks in advance. page 23 of the pdf the exclusion you dredged up is under the section entitled “Coverage C Medical Payments” (begins page 22). read what is covered and what is not. note the use of the words you and your as discussed early in the policy. medical payments for the insured are covered under a separate policy. coverage of Bodily Injury is explained in Coverage A beginning on page 18. read the whole thing and keep items in the context the policy addresses them in. If you have a problem with that, call AMA Special Services for an explanation. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
"You are a crackup. "
I try, I do get to use the Smiley, the Pbbb, & the Wink a lot ;):):D "You showed as being on RCU for about..... " I dont stay up to watch SuSe ISOs from Carrol D/L, I just wake up sometime in the night & turn offthe machine "YOU ARE WRONG." yup, it was the Next to last page, not the last page... already made that concession.l hold the position that the 18 is taken from each members dues. OK, BUT, BUT, BUT just where is the accounting for it in the financial statement? You could have and should have looked there before making your statement. The subscription income you claim is simply not accounted for. And yes, THEY print stuff that doesnt add up. And if you have read the Opt Out of MA thread, you would see where we have argued this to death. I'm one of the guys that was pointing out the flaws in the numbers published & asking for more accountability on the guys running MA. But others countered that with The AMA Can Do No Wrong, and I cant change their minds. You really should use that UnSay before you get your foot in your mouth fruther. I said MA SAID XXX, and AMA SAID YYY. They did. My post was accurate. You are the one chosing constants and using math, and finding the error in what the AMA & MA tells us. I have also said in other threads that their numbers dont add up & we should fire folks at MA. Do Not confuse me telling what faulty numbers MA has in print, with me generating those faulty numbers..... espesially since I have griped about them to no end. and what is the important part here? That AMA & MA print faulty numbers, or your unprecedented need only to find errors in my posts, such as it being the next to last page rather than the last page, and drag in a quote against STL from another thread. Odd how STL's contradicting posts are Mysteriously Vanishing from threads after my quoting them, and now some new guy is on a Credibility Crusade against me. The folks here have alread heard where I stand on things, our lines have been drawn. I stand by my citation of what claims MA & AMA make. Whether the new guy want to be my friend or not is of no importance. ------------------------------------------------------ Would like to get to the bottom of whether GuyB, the member in the parking lot, gets any insurance help with them $75k med bills. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy "You are a crackup. " I try, I do get to use the Smiley, the Pbbb, & the Wink a lot ;):):D "You showed as being on RCU for about..... " I dont stay up to watch SuSe ISOs from Carrol D/L, I just wake up sometime in the night & turn offthe machine "YOU ARE WRONG." yup, it was the Next to last page, not the last page... already made that concession.l hold the position that the 18 is taken from each members dues. OK, BUT, BUT, BUT just where is the accounting for it in the financial statement? You could have and should have looked there before making your statement. The subscription income you claim is simply not accounted for. And yes, THEY print stuff that doesnt add up. And if you have read the Opt Out of MA thread, you would see where we have argued this to death. I'm one of the guys that was pointing out the flaws in the numbers published & asking for more accountability on the guys running MA. But others countered that with The AMA Can Do No Wrong, and I cant change their minds. You really should use that UnSay before you get your foot in your mouth fruther. I said MA SAID XXX, and AMA SAID YYY. They did. My post was accurate. You are the one chosing constants and using math, and finding the error in what the AMA & MA tells us. I have also said in other threads that their numbers dont add up & we should fire folks at MA. Do Not confuse me telling what faulty numbers MA has in print, with me generating those faulty numbers..... espesially since I have griped about them to no end. and what is the important part here? That AMA & MA print faulty numbers, or your unprecedented need only to find errors in my posts, such as it being the next to last page rather than the last page, and drag in a quote against STL from another thread. Odd how STL's contradicting posts are Mysteriously Vanishing from threads after my quoting them, and now some new guy is on a Credibility Crusade against me. The folks here have alread heard where I stand on things, our lines have been drawn. I stand by my citation of what claims MA & AMA make. Whether the new guy want to be my friend or not is of no importance. ------------------------------------------------------ Would like to get to the bottom of whether GuyB, the member in the parking lot, gets any insurance help with them $75k med bills. Am I calling you a liar? No. To tell a lie requires intent. To have intent requires knowledge of the subject. To call one a liar requires that telling a lie is possible. Since I do not view you as having the necessary requirements to tell a lie, I certainly do not feel you are a liar. I have already covered guy b. Since you have problems with financial statements you might try your hand at reading the insurance pollicies posted on the AMA site. I wish you better luck with such an endevor. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
model.flyer, are you saying that by adding the advertising revenue of $1mil and $2mil of membership dues, then subtracting the $2mil costs of producing equals a $1mil profit? No matter how you cut it, a magazine that should show a profit is COSTING us. At the end of it all, the actual amount it costs us is about $8, but it's not really very good. So... that's eight dollars for the rag and twelve for the insurance. Where is the other $38 of my dues going....?
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RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: ptulmer model.flyer, are you saying that by adding the advertising revenue of $1mil and $2mil of membership dues, then subtracting the $2mil costs of producing equals a $1mil profit? No matter how you cut it, a magazine that should show a profit is COSTING us. At the end of it all, the actual amount it costs us is about $8, but it's not really very good. So... that's eight dollars for the rag and twelve for the insurance. Where is the other $38 of my dues going....? The actual facts are in the accounting in the audited financial statements on the AMA web page. There you can determine where all the money goes. Not sure where you got it, but I think your estimate of $8 is low since it does not contain any amount for magazine staff salaries. I also think that the insurance cost more since the amount you used does not seem to include the $250,000 deductibe (self insured) payments per liability claim paid by the AMA. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
Grab your October 2006 MA issue. Open it to page 165. Doug Holland published the 2005 Schedules of Operating Expenses. That tells you exactly where your money went.
You can also go to the AMA website, log into the Member’s area and download the most recent audit report. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI Grab your October 2006 MA issue. Open it to page 165. Doug Holland published the 2005 Schedules of Operating Expenses. That tells you exactly where your money went. You can also go to the AMA website, log into the Member’s area and download the most recent audit report. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
I don't really care if I can download an audit. How does the $38 have a positive influence on my experience? I'll even answer that for you. It has very little impact outside of Muncie. Now, this may come as a surprise, but I don't really want to fund Graceland. IF I could get my club to take another route to insurance, AMA would be off my list until changes are made. As it stands, it's forced enrollment if you want to fly at a club. There's no need to make changes when people are forced to pay up. No, AMA is definitely not a value. Fifty-eight bucks for something worth twenty is NOT a value.
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RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: model.flyer ORIGINAL: Phaedrus-MMVI Grab your October 2006 MA issue. Open it to page 165. Doug Holland published the 2005 Schedules of Operating Expenses. That tells you exactly where your money went. You can also go to the AMA website, log into the Member’s area and download the most recent audit report. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: ptulmer I don't really care if I can download an audit. How does the $38 have a positive influence on my experience? I'll even answer that for you. It has very little impact outside of Muncie. Now, this may come as a surprise, but I don't really want to fund Graceland. IF I could get my club to take another route to insurance, AMA would be off my list until changes are made. As it stands, it's forced enrollment if you want to fly at a club. There's no need to make changes when people are forced to pay up. No, AMA is definitely not a value. Fifty-eight bucks for something worth twenty is NOT a value. If all you want from the AMA is insurance, you can get that elsewhere. usually for a heck of a lot more money. One of the big reasons the policy the AMA buys is even available with a $250000 dedctible is the AMA reserves invested in Muncie. Don't beieve it? Go try to buy an umbrella policy without homeonwership. Apparently you are getting the benefit of something you never paid into. Not a bad deal. If you have no use for competition, flyins, giving kids schlorships, or representing the hobby to govermental bodies or the other things the AMA does, well, fine. Club members and/or landlords make the decision about who is allowed to fly at club fields. Not the AMA. Yes, the AMA recommends that only members be allowed to fly if the club has exclusive rights to the field. The AMA also requires that all club members be AMA members. The recommendation and the requirement are two different things. If you are a club officer, you may better understand clubs make the decision to reqire all who fly there to be AMA members. It is there neck, and those of the members of the club on the line. Self-preservation bothers you, I take it. No body is twisting your arm. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
[quote
I certainly hope your comments here are to show a shocking corolation to a line of thinking about AMA costs and apropriations. Because if you honestly feel that way about the United States and the "Republic of Texas" you can remove that avatar of yours because that 2nd amendment belongs to the United Stated of America NOT some so said republic. And I am a member of the US military and I support the efforts and ideals that the current administration of this great nation and what it is trying to get done despite the efforts of the general public to sling bipartisan mud around the real issues of national security and Homeland Defence. To think any nation or person would enter into a conflict without intended victory is rediculous. Do yourself a favor and turn off the Communist News Network and have a little faith that the leaders of this nation want what is best for it, yesturday, today and tommorow, reguardless of their party affiliation. Or of course... you can go start your own country. ][/quote] Well said I want to thank you for your service and sacrifice. Thank God for people like you willing to serve. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: model.flyer If you have no use for competition, flyins, giving kids schlorships, or representing the hobby to govermental bodies or the other things the AMA does, well, fine. When is the last time AMA sent a check to help you with a funfly or local competition? They CHARGE to list it in the magazine we pay for, for cryin' out loud. More suprising is that I think scholarships is not an appropriate way for dues to be spent. Nor do I think the AMA has done any "representing". The few times it was tried it turned into a fiasco. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: ptulmer ORIGINAL: model.flyer If you have no use for competition, flyins, giving kids schlorships, or representing the hobby to govermental bodies or the other things the AMA does, well, fine. When is the last time AMA sent a check to help you with a funfly or local competition? They CHARGE to list it in the magazine we pay for, for cryin' out loud. More suprising is that I think scholarships is not an appropriate way for dues to be spent. Nor do I think the AMA has done any "representing". The few times it was tried it turned into a fiasco. There are examples all over the country where chartered clubs are on public land and anyone can fly there. The payment on the Muncie debt on the buildings, etc. is $200000 a year from an Indiana educational bond, as evidenced in the statement. The rest of the expenses are also there. The CPAs that did the audit expressed their concurrence with the accounting. Apparently the IRS also approves. If you can’t look at a statement and determine what it says, well, there is no way I can teach you on this forum. You want a big ad in the mag for a sanctioned event? Pay for it. If you just want the small one its free, in spite of the garbage posted in this forum. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
Why should we have to pay for a ad when our dues already subsidise the magazine. The magazine is a drain on our funds that could be better spent elsewhere. As far as the go to a AMA field and fly if your not AMA go and try it, past experience says you ain't flying.
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RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: rcmiket Why should we have to pay for a ad when our dues already subsidise the magazine. The magazine is a drain on our funds that could be better spent elsewhere. As far as the go to a AMA field and fly if your not AMA go and try it, past experience says you ain't flying. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: ptulmer model.flyer, are you saying that by adding the advertising revenue of $1mil and $2mil of membership dues, then subtracting the $2mil costs of producing equals a $1mil profit? No matter how you cut it, a magazine that should show a profit is COSTING us. At the end of it all, the actual amount it costs us is about $8, but it's not really very good. So... that's eight dollars for the rag and twelve for the insurance. Where is the other $38 of my dues going....? [sm=idea.gif][sm=50_50.gif] This was asked before but no one could give a real answer other then the other 38 dollars is to offset some of the lower price that the junior members pay. If your post is true about the costs etc then a person could actually get the needed AMA insurance for flying at clubs for less then 20 bucks a year. And people gripe at me because I think that 30 dollars a year is all someone should pay if they could get out of receiving the magazine and opting out of donating to pay for junior members. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: redfox435cat I challenge you to produce ONE such case with verifiable facts. that would require naming names and I'm not under any of your obligations to do that. June of 96' After a fun fly event at VAFB. Model(Gp superspot 40) doing a low high speed inverted pass. We were trying to drag our rudder on the ground I was flying my tower uproar. A by standard, not an AMA member runs onto the runway at the far end after hoping the fence unannounced and is struck my the model, Luckly only cuased a broken arm. AMA rep concidered the flying irresposible and in violation of AMA rules and denided the claim. This was of course from the atament of the guy that got hit and his wife. The pilot was yellling out his intestions and had complete control of the model, we both were, I had just done the same with the mine a few seconds earlier. He was hung out to dry. No home owners insurance, doesn't own a house and was just a grunt mechanic so no real benifits from work. Ended up filing bankrupsy. Feb of 98' Lompoc feild 1/4 scale pitts losses all control and hit a chevy truck in the parking lot doing sever damage to the vehical and destroying the models in the bed. Traced interferance to a local tower, this is why our local feild had blacked out channels 39-41. Luckly I was parked on the other side of the feild. The vehical was covered by the auto insurance but the 2 grand in models no one would claim resposiblitly. The AMA wouldn't think of paying the guys additinal insurance premiums. The pilot payed that out of his pocket, he was that kinda of guy. Last August at roague feild Lompoc airport, it's all we got now. Fun fly 40 out of control due to dumb thumbs bounces 100 degrees off a near by light pole and bounces off another pilots car. I was just showing up as it happended and almost hit my truck AMA of course denises the claim since there was no writen permission from the land owner, just a verbal agreement from the airport commisioner, all partys were AMA members. Feild set up exceed all AMA requiments but none of it matters. Same feild, same two guys. While test taxing a hog bipe it goes out of control and slames into other pilots truck at full throttle. Denied for the same reasons. Now the guy just flies electrics. This stuff can happen to anyone at any time your at the feild. and as usualy the AMA takes your guys veiw. Show me proof and what did you do wrong. Sorry I didn't take the Barr exam. If the loop hole existes they will use it. |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
So I'll just jump in my flying saucer for the 10 mintue to Califonia. I fly here in EL Paso and my club and the Northeast club require AMA because of the site owner insurance. I have homeowners to cover me but no dice... no card.... no fly. Which one's in Texas can I go to and fly at a AMA club with no AMA? What your refering to is Public Land not private and there are many that make a deal with the city or country that AMA is required that's how the clubs sold the idea in the first place. All I know is were I fly and have traveled to fly. Pack your plane and go to a few fly-ins or contests and see how far you get.
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RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: model.flyer giving kids schlorships, ORIGINAL: model.flyer or representing the hobby to govermental bodies... Did you ever get the impression that there is something missing from this sentence? "There is no coverage for injury to a member to his own family (Household and Relative(s) living in the member’s household) for claims or suits." PDF 500-A Like; "There is no coverage for injury to a[nother] member [or] to [any member's] family..." Just have to love legal speak! |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: rcmiket So I'll just jump in my flying saucer for the 10 mintue to Califonia. I fly here in EL Paso and my club and the Northeast club require AMA because of the site owner insurance. I have homeowners to cover me but no dice... no card.... no fly. Which one's in Texas can I go to and fly at a AMA club with no AMA? What your refering to is Public Land not private and there are many that make a deal with the city or country that AMA is required that's how the clubs sold the idea in the first place. All I know is were I fly and have traveled to fly. Pack your plane and go to a few fly-ins or contests and see how far you get. you wanna know where in TX? you do the legwork and find out. they exist |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
ORIGINAL: model.flyer so, just as I said, the club and/or the landlord made the decision to protect their butts in your area. so, why is it you are whinning about the AMA? you wanna know where in TX? you do the legwork and find out. they exist |
RE: AMA is a real value!!
I certainly hope your comments here are to show a shocking corolation to a line of thinking about AMA costs and apropriations. Because if you honestly feel that way about the United States and the "Republic of Texas" you can remove that avatar of yours because that 2nd amendment belongs to the United Stated of America NOT some so said republic. And I am a member of the US military and I support the efforts and ideals that the current administration of this great nation and what it is trying to get done despite the efforts of the general public to sling bipartisan mud around the real issues of national security and Homeland Defence. To think any nation or person would enter into a conflict without intended victory is rediculous. Do yourself a favor and turn off the Communist News Network and have a little faith that the leaders of this nation want what is best for it, yesturday, today and tommorow, reguardless of their party affiliation. Or of course... you can go start your own country.
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RE: AMA is a real value!!
Sorry wrong Button.
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