The AMA is an organization dedicated to Model Aviation which is a multi faceted interest. It attempts to cater to all aspects of this hobby/sport as best it can. Due to the overwhelming interest in R/C, the AMA gives this interest the majority of its' coverage. However, it still has to cover FF and CL!

People run the AMA and people are fallible and/or influenced by other people. People also have a bad habit of pushing their own agenda or allowing others to push their own agendas onto them. However, I believe the AMA's leaders are doing the best they can and are attempting to appease all people involved in this hobby and listen to their interests.

It costs an adult $58.00 to be a member, which includes a subscription to the AMA's publication "Model Aviation". For arguments sake, lets say the subscription to M.A. costs $25.00 (this would be cheap for a monthly periodical). Then lets say it costs another $25.00 for the annual premium for the insurance coverage we all receive as a benefit of being an AMA member (Do you buy insurance [of course you do] and therefore isn't this the cheapest insurance premium you have)? This then leaves $8.00 for the AMA to cover all the other costs it needs to cover, which it does! You can argue that my breakdown is unrealistic by the divisions I've made in the costs which your dues cover. However, no matter what, you can't argue that the costs aren't covered by the $58.00!

In the mid 1980s the AMA went to bat for all R/Cers by negotiating with the FCC for 50 new frequencies. Previous to this we had 7 frequencies (excluding HAM and the 27 MHz). Imagine being at the flying field and waiting for your turn to use a frequency when there were only 7 to use! Frequency control was a real issue back then and I think we are almost to lackadaisical about it today.

I realize I'm not going to stop anyone from complaining about the AMA. However, excuse me for thinking it ain't so bad and in fact is a real value!

WELL SAID...Does anyone remember the Sport Flyers of America (I think that was the name) of a few years back. Tried to form a Natioal organization to give an option to the AMA. Didn't happen for a number of reasons. For an organization to be around for 69 years says something about it, and it ain't all bad......

great post... and I agree with you...


But don't worry, it will only take a couple hours for the bitter few to step in and try and pi$$ all over this thread

But they are not real modelers, just toy airplane flyers. Most are in and out in a few years, lack the basic skills that real modlers have aquired up over time from sharing ideas and experiences, lots of times with Model Aviation Magazine as the medium. They seem to share one attribute and that is the lack of intelect to understand what the AMA really stands for.


Red S.
AMA 951

I thought that I was the only person that liked the AMA, and I am glad to see this post. They have done so much for me over my lifetime, I can't thank them enough. I have been an AMA member since 1941 - that's 65 years and still counting. Sure they have some faults (show me an organization that doesn't), but the good things they do, and have done, outweigh any faults. Over the years I have participated in free-flight, U-control, R/C single channel at it's inception, R/C reeds (Citizenship), R/C analog (Orbit 3+1), R/C digital (Orbit 7-14 & Pro-Line), R/C pattern flying, R/C pylon racing, R/C sport flying, and now since 1976 heavily involved in R/C giant scale. All that was made possible because of the AMA. What more can I say?

It would be a much better value to me and possibly may other non AMA members if we could purchase the membership without havignt o pay for a magazine or having to pay for other people with OUR money.

They should make the magazine optional as well as donating money to let young adults join for a couple bucks.

Does not look like I will ever be a member unless they make these two things optional.

I got 30 bucks in my pocket waiting for the day it does happen.

Rat1

I usually don't post in the AMA thread, but here goes...

Take that $30.00 down to your local insurance company and see if you can buy a 2.5 million dollar liability policy. While you're at it, see if they will act as a liason between you and the FAA, the FCC, and the homeland security folks as well. And see if they will donate to young people, in the form of scholarships, as the AMA already does.

I understand that a lot of people aren't too fond of the Model Aviation magazine. The AMA covers a broad spectrum of aviation modeling, and that doesn't leave a lot of room to focus on just what happens to be our personal favorite area. However, if you compare the content of MA to what's in the modeling magazines at the local bookstore, you'll find it has a lot to offer.

$58.00. Heck, my internet service that lets me waste time on these forums costs 2/3 of that each month!

Larry

Young people can join for a buck. By the time they are young adults they are going to have to set their priorities, drive a BMW or something more modest, get along with just a 36 inch flat screen TV vs 60", etc. and spend $58/yr on AMA dues that will open up flying fields and a place to learn some of the subtleties of the hobby.

As for optional magazine, it was tried once and so few opted out that it was not worth the extra effort to send them the required simple newsletter required as a Non profit 501 organization. Maybe they should offer it again considering so many are now seem to be somewhat reading impaired.

Your statements " having to pay for other people with OUR money" and "donating money to let young adults join for a couple bucks" seems kind of opposing each other, unless you think the AMA has a significant source of income other than our dues.

It's supplemental liability insurance. Meaning it's worthless. Nine time out of ten accident that would require the need for it, the AMA will find a reason you were negligent and thus forfeit your coverage. Personally I've witnessed 6 serious accidents 1 with server bodily harm and none of them saw cent of the AMA's liability insurance. No I wasn't involved peosonally. As far as your liaison to the government agencies, your on your own, if you think the AMA is going to come to your aid, then you have a lot more faith they I could ever muster up. Come to think of it I haven't found any were on the policies about personal legal representation. Were are you seeing this? Yes they stepped into congress to clarifies a point the AMA brought up about a possible connection to UAV's. Congress never brought up models, the point was on commercial UAV's. The AMA helped in acquiring the band we have, the manufactures are the ones that talk with the FCC and do what is required to comply, also we are slowly being pushed out by the telecomunication industry. RC has never had top priority to it.

By reading this I'm sure the people that can only see black and white would see this as bashing the AMA. I do support the AMA and have been a member for 14 yrs now and will continue to be. It just kinda equirks me when the forward thinkers skew things to the ultra positive light. I would probable see them in a better light if they would help get us a damn field and at least attempt to control the local interferance at our current makeshift site.

Lots of AMA insurance related information here, including copies of the policies:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/acrobat.asp

Scroll down about halfway.

Larry

[quote]ORIGINAL: redfox435cat

I challenge you to produce ONE such case with verifiable facts.

Fact is that I have homeowners insurance that will cover me. I did talk to my insurance company and metioned that I fly radio controlled aircraft and asked if I would be covered. Was told that I would be fine.

So to me the only thing ama would benefit me is so I can fly on club fields.

I have to agree.

Out of all the model organizations that we can choose from AMA is really the best bang for the buck.

What I have always had a hard time understanding is why some get so defensive when someone in this forum illuminates something they would like to see change or wish was different. To express any criticism of AMA or express a desire for a particular change will get you labeled as malcontent by the fastest that can get a post up. Sorta like a cult following mentality in here sometimes.

I challenge you to produce ONE such case with verifiable facts.

that would require naming names and I'm not under any of your obligations to do that.

June of 96' After a fun fly event at VAFB. Model(Gp superspot 40) doing a low high speed inverted pass. We were trying to drag our rudder on the ground I was flying my tower uproar. A by standard, not an AMA member runs onto the runway at the far end after hoping the fence unannounced and is struck my the model, Luckly only cuased a broken arm. AMA rep concidered the flying irresposible and in violation of AMA rules and denided the claim. This was of course from the atament of the guy that got hit and his wife. The pilot was yellling out his intestions and had complete control of the model, we both were, I had just done the same with the mine a few seconds earlier. He was hung out to dry. No home owners insurance, doesn't own a house and was just a grunt mechanic so no real benifits from work. Ended up filing bankrupsy.

Feb of 98' Lompoc feild 1/4 scale pitts losses all control and hit a chevy truck in the parking lot doing sever damage to the vehical and destroying the models in the bed. Traced interferance to a local tower, this is why our local feild had blacked out channels 39-41. Luckly I was parked on the other side of the feild. The vehical was covered by the auto insurance but the 2 grand in models no one would claim resposiblitly. The AMA wouldn't think of paying the guys additinal insurance premiums. The pilot payed that out of his pocket, he was that kinda of guy.

Last August at roague feild Lompoc airport, it's all we got now. Fun fly 40 out of control due to dumb thumbs bounces 100 degrees off a near by light pole and bounces off another pilots car. I was just showing up as it happended and almost hit my truck AMA of course denises the claim since there was no writen permission from the land owner, just a verbal agreement from the airport commisioner, all partys were AMA members. Feild set up exceed all AMA requiments but none of it matters.

Same feild, same two guys. While test taxing a hog bipe it goes out of control and slames into other pilots truck at full throttle. Denied for the same reasons. Now the guy just flies electrics.

This stuff can happen to anyone at any time your at the feild. and as usualy the AMA takes your guys veiw. Show me proof and what did you do wrong. Sorry I didn't take the Barr exam. If the loop hole existes they will use it.

"Does anyone remember the Sport Flyer's of America (I think that was the name) of a few years back. Tried to form a National organization to give an option to the AMA. Didn't happen for a number of reasons."

Yes they were in fact around for several years, then due to some unfortunate legal issues and the death of the founder they went buy the wayside. I was a member till the demise of SF. They were your Primary insurance. I wish we had a choice but we don't. I wish the AMA would give us the choice of receiving the magazine or not. I have no use whatsoever for it. The site owner coverage is the only thing I see that is of real use. The fields I fly at require AMA so I belong. The AMA has done some good things but also made a few bonehead moves like the Muncie site. Its a long haul for most of the members to ever get there.

In every Model Aviation issue there is a column entitled "Flying Site Assistance" There are Eastern (Joe Bashar) and Western Wes La Cou) heads of this department. These people are there to lend assistance in any way they can. Some of our AMA districts also have AVPs who are there to help the local clubs acquire and keep flying sites. If your talking about the AMA financially helping a local club acquire a flying site, I would be totally against this as I feel this would be a misappropriation of funds.

LittleCrankShaft,
I support the AMA in most of what they are about. What they do that I do not support seems infinitesimal comparired to what they do that I do support. This is my point of view. The AMA Topic in the R/CU Forum seems to be filled with people whom have a view diametrically opposed to mine. I have basically stayed away from posting in this topic because it seems so controversial! Lately, I felt compelled to state my opinion and have simply done so.

Sure they do. And I know you have a wealth of evidence to support this absurd claim.

PLEASE cite the cases where you KNOW this to have been the case. Make sure that you have the actual facts and not what your buddies buddy told you he heard from a guy who knew another guy .....

Fact: AMA insurance IS secondary. UNLESS you have no other coverage, then it is primary. This applies to BOTH the liability and medical coverage.

Fact: most people confuse the medical coverage with the liability coverage. Medical coverage is secondary as well, but pays off regardless of fault. Just file a valid claim (you know, one that actually proves the medical costs) and they get paid. This has a $25,000 benefit. This is for injuries YOU receive. If it is someone else, then that is a liability claim. They are claiming that you are liable for their injury.

FACT: the liability and medical coverage have nothing to do with each other.

FACT: liability ONLY kicks in if someone files a claim AGAINST you. You do NOT claim liability with the AMA directly (usually). What this means is that you have to cause a loss to a third party and THEY have to file some type of claim against you. THEN you can ask AMA to cover the loss IF you have no other insurance OR your primary insurance has been exhausted. A common situation I have seen is a person has a claim against them for a liability loss. Their primary insurance says that the claim does not prove liability and therefore they will not pay it. THEN the modeler goes to AMA, who says the same thing. Remember, for ANY liability insurance to be valid the person requesting the claim against you has to actually prove that you were liable for the loss.

Sorry, but these kinds of post drive me crazy. I have NEVER seen or heard of a valid claim that AMA has refused. Sure, they refuse to pay out when the party with the alleged loss cannot prove the loss was the fault of the AMA member. Sure they will not pay out if your primary coverage refuses the claim, why should they? If one company says there is no liability, why should another accept it.?

Also, about the personal legal costs. I have personal knowledge of three cases where AMA paid for the legal expenses of cases involving a member. So that is real as well. Oh, and those costs are NOT part of the liability coverage. In other words those costs do not come out of the $2.5 million.

All I can say is that the constant fantasy I see on the Internet about how the AMA is just LOOKING for a reason to deny coverage simply does not match up with my proven experiences. Oh, and one final thing. For those that do have primary insurance (like home owners, etc.) take a look at the limits. $300K is real common. Want to know how far that goes in a liability case? Most liability cases FAR exceed that number. So even in this case, how is AMA being secondary "worthless"??

I guess I stand alone in thinking that $58 a year to allow me to be a guest at any club in the USA is not bad.
It covers my insurance. That alone is enough. Everything else is just extra. I just look at the value of the insurance.
I have asked about a insurance policy to cover liability for me flying my plane. Most underwriters will not even approach it.
So if AMA is not around, you fly without insurance. I for one, would not do it.

But that isn't true...I wish it were. It is the clubs that decide who they will let fly at their fields. Unfortunately there are clubs that could care less if you are member of AMA or not…you are not welcome to visit at any time…


After Redfox's accounts I would be skeptical until I had a need to utilize AMA's coverage. I think someone here illuminated that the primary coverage is great for site owners and I agree but the secondary coverage leaves a lot in the balance.


If that is true, then the AMA's secondary insurance is probably going to come up short in some instances for you. Member to member accidents would be just one example. BTW that is the most likely need.

Ditto. Thread after thread of whiners about how the AMA doesn't do anything for THEM. But how often do we see a thread with FACTS. How often do we see a thread of someone complaining that they did not see their benefits, one per year? Who are you kidding? This is the FIRST place they would come to stir the pot. Just boatloads of hearsay .... and others that do the talking for other people.

HA! Let's get real here.

If what you are saying is the truth about the type of flying taking place, how can you wonder about the AMA's refusal to accept this claim?!?!

Many pilots can fly a model with as much control inverted as right side up and usually better inverted than those that look at it as somehow reckless can do right side up...you are not one of them are you?

If you are please quit flying so our dues do not go up due to your inabilities to control your model safely.

Heck... even information supplied by AMA is void of particulars...by your DA standard we should not believe AMA has paid anything out either.

Yea... how bout giving us the emails you claim to have...

"If your talking about the AMA financially helping a local club acquire a flying site, I would be totally against this as I feel this would be a misappropriation of funds."

Ok Mode one how do you feel about them spending our funds on the Muncie site?