Ok, I finally bit the bullet and ordered a H9 Funtana 125 today(after much deliberation). I already have a 120AX with powerbox (and pitts if is required) muffler I will use on it. I didnt order the optional SFGs, $24 for them is just too much, I will build them myself if someone could give me a sketch or I will replicate the rudder shape. I wont set it up immediately (have a Reactor Bipe in the offing right now) so I will get the servos that I require later or from another airplane but I would like to put the other things required in the box and pack it away so I have a package ready when I want to put it together.

So my question is what else do I need? Case in point, dubro HD pinned hinges, heavy duty or ball-link clevices, foam wheels, larger pushrods, larger servo arms etc

Ameyam

Anyone?

You should not need anything, I have not owned a H9 for some time but they were one of the first kits i owned which came with good hardware.

Most of the hardware is personal choice. I would take a look at the furnished hardware and see what I didn't like. Sounds like you will have time to ponder the parts before assembly.

In the "things you will need".

For the elevators you'll have several choices...

- Two normal servos, then place one servo on the elevator channel and another on a spare TX channel. Mix the two, but reverse one so both sides move up and down at the same time.

Pros: Easy to do with most 7 channel and above TX's.

Cons: Your elevators will not move uniformly. There will be a slight and noticible lag particularly at extremes.


- A JR Matchbox or a Futaba equivalent. ( NO CHEAPIES!!! This will cost you over $65.00 or more ).

Pros: You'll get EXACT sync between the two servos and surfaces. With the JR's you'll even get better end point control.

Cons: Not cheap. See next option

( The Cheapies "drift", will not sync properly ( see above point ) as only ONE signal is processed and regenerated instead of both like with the Matchbox. The crystals drift with temperature changes requiring constant adjustments of very easy to damage potentiometers that wear out quickly ).


- One normal servo, one reversed servo hooked together with a "Y" cable.

Pros: You'll get exact and identical movement of the two control surfaces. No other TX channels are required.

Cons: It's hard to find an exactly matched set of a Normal and a Reversed servo now-a-days.

I did the latter on my Funtana and the former on larger 3D planes.

Opjose,

thanks for the advice. My setup will be as follows-

Futaba 9CAP with 2.4Ghz module and 6008HS Rx.
Servos- either 3010s or 3350 depending on what is available when I build it. I will use 5 of them and one standard servo on the throttle.
Engine will be 120AX with powerbox muffler and muffler extension if required
Prop 16x8 MAS Scimitar series. I have already bought one and it is completely balanced as is. I will use a GP spinner with aluminium backplate
Fuel- I will use plain castor to run in and klotz-100 based fuel for regular flying. Will use the same prop for run-in
Hydrimax 200mAh 6V battery pack or Hobbico LiFe 3200mAh 2S battery pack

I will setup the servos on 1st and 8th (I think) channel to turn in the same direction, then mechanically oppose them. i.e. on one side the pushrod z-bend will be in the servo horn hole on the top side and on the other it will be on the bottom side. I will either use the 6-armed horn or aluminium horns from GP similar to the one I need to use on the Reactor Bipe. Since I will use the "1" numbered arm on both sides, the servos will move in sync. I will do the same with the ailerons

This is where I need advice.
1) I read somewhere that the two standard sized servos will not fit into the fuse as the tail is not wide enough and the elevator servo holes are in the same place on both sides. If this is so, I will have to get the more expensive low profile servos.
2) Will the 3010s be enough for the rudder at 6V or do I need to get different ones. After having a number of problems with Hitec I have given up on that brand, so Futaba it is
3) Do I need to replace the elevator and rudder horns with aftermarket ones- ball-link or cotter pin type or something (Sorry, I am not much into types of horns)
5) What else do I need to replace or strengthen


Ameyam

It comes with CA type hinges....the rest of the hardware seemed OK as I remember.

You're considering using Z-bends on a control surface? Maybe I've just become accustomed to gasser requirements...

I didn't have any trouble installing standard sized back to back servos.

I would not mechanically oppose them that way...

The elevator servos need to move in OPPOSITE directions to each other for both elevator halves to move in the same direction.

The aileron has no such requirement so you could opt to hook them both up to a "Y" cable and run them off one channel.

With the elevators you reallyl need to use one of the techniques I mentioned above.

IMHO the WORST choices are to put each servo on a separate channel or to use a cheap servo syncronizer cable.
The elevators end up with a lot of travel for 3D, and the delay becomes very visible at stick extremes. Mechanical opposition is still better than both of these options.

As Ahicks mentioned standard servos fit just fine.

Z Bends work fine, if you set them up as per the instructions and use "keepers".

I went with the provided horns and ball links for the elevators. I've well over 200 flights on my Funtana and they have held up well.

Re: Strengthen...

Landing gear attachment area.

Tri stock EVERYWHERE you can.

Remember the idea is NOT just to put a piece of triangle stock along the mount, but rather to SPREAD OUT any torsional loads.

As you tackle this, don't think to yourself... "where can I glue in some tri-stock", but instead, if the gear pushes forward, "where is the load applied and what can I do to prevent twisting?"

Longer adjacent cross members are far more effective than gluing on some tri-stock on each side of the gear mount board.

Actually, you dont need to electronically reverse the servo or use a syncroniser. Let us take the LHS servo looking from the tail- if it turns counterclockwise with the pushrod connected to the servo arm above the pivot point, it will pull the elevator down. Now consider the servo on the other side. Here also the servo rotates counterclockwise but has the pushrod connected into the same horn hole but below the pivot point. Thus it will also pull the elevator down. All servo horns are numbered because each is set at a tiny different angle to each other, meaning that if you install the horn such that arm no "1" is at exact 90 Deg to the servo on one servo, you can achieve exactly the same angle using only the same arm number on the other servo at neutral. So long as you have the same servo horn number and the same hole connected on either side and your neutral is set properly using the number of turns on theclevis on both sides, both deflections will be equal and no reverser is required. Both my Topstar and Reactor are setup this way.


Ahicks, z-bend will be only on the servo horn side with snaplink keepers


You mean think of the fuse side as a truss and analyse which way the landing force will go and add additional tri and rectangular stock along the force lines? Thats exactly what I will do. I have done the same with my Topstar. When I got the old airplane it used to groan horribly when you picked it up mid fuse. So I added lile ply and spruce stock inside the fuse in the direction in which force would be transmitted similar to bridge trusses. On top of those I added more lite ply in pices alomg and across the grain. All this was done with epoxy for max strength. When I was done, it stopped groaning. Subsequently I had so many crash (dead-stick) landings with a 75AX but never had anything break where I had reinforced

Ameyam

Ok, I correct myself, the elevator servos are setup on the same side and reversted through the radio's programming. The aileron servos are setup as described above. I am attaching pictures of the Reactor's setup for reference

Ameyam

As I mentioned previously I do not like the separate channels for the Elevator servos as you are intending.

Communications from the TX is serialized so moving up the channels introduces a slight delay.

e.g. Channel 1 gets transmitted, then 2, then three, then four, then five... etc.. so by the time you hit channel 8, you may have a 80us delay or more in play....

Normally this is so small that it is not noticible, but it does produce a big effect on the elevators.

Not so on ailerons because their surfaces tend to be thinner, and even if there is a lag, the leading aileron doesn't really affect the trailing one.... e.g. you CAN fly a plane with only one aileron working and hardly notice the difference in some circumstances.

With the elevators having one out of sync imparts a small rotational difference that comes into play during manouvers.... harriers, hovers, etc.

I know the newer JR TX's have a provision that minimizes this effect, where linked channels are transmitted in adjacent bursts.

Actually I was one of the people who told you how to do this in the other thread. But at that time we were discussing another plane.

Again I would NOT suggest doing this with the Funtana. You CAN do it, and the results ARE better than say using different TX channels, but with the large control surface movements of the Funtana you'll still see that one side will rise higher or lower than the other... and that will result in a tendancy for the plane to roll slightly at high deflections....

Been there, tried that.

Yes exactly, trying to spread out the load area...

All too often people make the landing gear blocks STIFFER, which actually can result in the gear pulling out even faster!
Instead the idea is to resist the torsional forces imparted by those big levers ( the gear itself ) that are bearing down on the wood.

Current landing gear design effectively takes a crowbar to the gear mounting area every time a plane lands.

Older designs and trainers, were better at spreading out the force or giving way slightly to absorb the impact.

Sprung gear can handle abuse much better than stiff carbon.

Thanks Opjose, I will have a look at the Futaba Syncroniser that you suggested

Ameyam

Do not add more weight than you need, you will not notice the effect of lag in a dual servo system, I doubt opjose would as well... plus you are just adding another point of failure... keep it simple and plug into two different channels on the receiver for the elevator.

Sorry but it is VERY noticable and affects things like waterfalls, etc. else I would not have brought it up.

Matchboxes or the MSA 10 are reliable devices, far less likely to fail than the person operating the TX and screwing up a mix.

I started experimenting with syncronizers, matchboxes and other solutions, because both my Funtana and my Giant U-Can-Do displayed noticible lag between the channels.

Inexpensive in line sync devices often recommended here, such as Tower's ESM reverser, made the problem worst as only one channel is conditioned on these cheapies.

Switching to a 2.4gHz 9503 TX helped a lot due to it's automatic serialization of linked channels, but on the Funtana I went with a reversed / normal servo pair, and on the U-Can-Do I went with TWO matchboxes. One Matchbox for the elevators and another to handle the flaps, to get them to sync to the ailerons while still being able to switch them into "flap" mode.

Both of these work very well with absolutely no differences or lag in the control surfaces.


If you have yours set up on different channels try moving the elevator to an extreme, then take it 75% of the way in the other direction and quickly blip it back almost to max the other way. Watch the plane from the tail. The lag is very easy to see and quite unnerving when you realize how much it can occur performing quick moves ( as in 3D manouvers ).

Hey, I always have the option to try to setup without the syncronsier first. Then if I dont like it, I can look for the syncroniser. I have a 6008hs remember? Its a premium high speed RX

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXWVF5&P=ML

Also, is the servo sufficient?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXDTB3&P=ML

Ameyam

I can waterfall and harrier without any fancy devices... just a point of failure and extra weight!!

That's a bit specious. Have you actually tried them?

Syncronizers also weight LESS than .6 oz so weight doesn't even come into play.

It's more likely that you'll screw up a mix, and ruin your plane than the syncronizer will fail.

The lag and end point differences do affect the plane's performance, which is one reason syncronizers are so often used by Giant Scale & Gasser pilots for the same purpose...

There is a lot of expensive equipment in those planes relying upon syncronizers.

With larger 3D planes I'll take accuracy and quality over lag and shortcuts any day.

The 9 channel Futaba you have does a pretty good job with mixes. Yes you can try the setup as you intend first. I recommend performing the little test I mention above to check how the surfaces will do in flight.

For sports planes I often rely upon the TX for mixes, but for my larger 3D planes I use the syncronizers for better accuracy.

And yes that servo is fine for all of the surfaces, particularly at 6v.

Because of the faster servo response at the higher voltage, I use a 6v supply on my Funtana.

Feather in the CAP for JR servo sync, perhaps you do need them with a Futaba radio...

Yeah the newer JR TX's do a pretty good job... they are specifically designed to reduce lag on linked channels by using various techniques, including resequencing the channel transmission pulse order. With say a 9503 I have a harder time spotting any lag.

To get the benefit of this you need to establish the linked channels during setup, not in a "mix" which most people opt for... the directions note the differences.

I was setting up a friend's 100cc'r last fall and elevator lag drove us nuts on his 9c Futaba. He ended up with an MSA-10 to eliminate it.

I'm thinking of one of these with a DLE 30. Anyone running this setup?

Quite a few. Have a look a the Funtana thread in the arf section

Ameyam

I have the Funtana 125, built it this last summer and it has descent hardware but mypush rodswere short, the spinnerdoesn'tfit the motor and it came and it came with CA hinges.I'mnot dogging the plane because I like the plane but Hanger 9 and Horizon leave some to be desired.

~ Its a heavy plane but seems to be quite durable
~ The manual has a many places that are wrong. When you fly your plane make sure...and I do mean make sure the thing is nose heavy because the CG specs are off. I fly mine not too far from the forward CG.
~ Be sure to go light on the tail.I am using the Hitec 7775MG low profiles all around but recently switched the elevator servos to the 225MG to lighten the tail as the plane will fly tail heavy at their recommended CG.
~ You will want to shave weight when possible if you are going to fly this plane 3D.The plane will be heavy with an 8s setup if you do electric. I have mine that way now and am in the process of changing it to a 6/7 s setup and I am going to try and run the AXI 5320/18 as it fits the power 110 mount perfectly. I am using the Hitec 7775MG.I changed the wheels, and anything I could to get the plane down in the mid to low 9lb area and on less batteries it should be lighter. Use a Extreme Flight spinner (lighter than Dubro) and a 18x8 or 18 x10 xoar prop (43g) vs (73g).
~ itdoesn'tcome with the SFGs. You will want to use these as the plane will have significant rock at low speed.

With all that said its a good plane if you can overcome a few of the frustrations. I also had the servo lag issue with the dual elevator and am going to go with the Smart Fly Equalizer to do the servo sync as the Dx7 seems to not mix equally.

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); ">Got the funtana back in the air this weekend for about 7 flights. since I couldnt get the darn thing to balance very well without adding 2 ounces of lead to the nose I ended up going with a 7s setup<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); "><span style="font-size: smaller; ">(3s &amp; 4s zippy 5000 in series)</span></span>and a xoar 18x8 on it. Also moved rudder out of the tail and made it a pull-pull. Im getting around 2200 watts using the logging in the ICE 100 to measure.

Components:
~ Hacker A50-12L
~ 10 amp castle BEC @6.5v
~ RX AR7000
~ Rudder &amp; Ailerons 7775MG &amp; 5245MG on elevator (53 degrees throw)
~ Castle ICE 100 (<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); "><span style="font-size: smaller; ">Settings are at Med timing advance (5)(default) and 12khz for the pwm</span></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0); "><span style="font-size: smaller; ">.</span></span>)
~ Xoar 18x8 (<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); "><span style="font-size: smaller; ">Now I think it would do much better with a 18x10 but I couldnt find one so I will have to order.</span></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102); "></span>)
~ 7s setup<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); "><span style="font-size: smaller; ">(<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); ">3s &amp; 4s zippy 5000 in series 20c</span>)
</span></span>~ 85 amps at WOT - 2200 watts
~ weight 9.6lb

Now that I have a position where it will fly neutral maybe I can get a 6s setup back in it to cut that 4oz of extra weight. Overall the plane did really descent 3D. I am going to go ahead and grab thecarbon fiberLG. I would also like to find a source for some good nylon bolts for the LG and SFGs etc. So if anyone knows where to get 3 &amp; 4 mm nylon bolts I would love to know. (socket head prefered but not really holding my breath).</span>