Learned the hard way today that a 90* crosswind at about 20mph is nothing to take for granted. I got up ok, but on landing I found that I really need a lot of practice on my crosswind landings. I lost my Magic Extra when the wind literally pushed the bottom of the wing backwards and into the ground as I was making a turn to go around in the cross wind. I am looking for the following in an ARF:

1. 40 size (Will be using the OS 46fx off of the Magic)
2. Low wing with some dihedral.
3. Can be a trike or taildragger.
4. Can be a trainer, but low wing is preferable.
5. "Semi-symetrical wing" this will provide the stability I need during practice.
6. Quality ARF (I know some consider that to be an oxymoron, but I don't want to get a kit right now.) I am finishing my Somethin Extra, and have the SIG Hog Bipe in the wings as my next one.

Am Considering:
1. Goldberg Tiger 2
2. Kaos 40
3. PC-9 40 from Horizon Hobby
4. Midwest Aerobat (If a end up deciding on a high wing plane.)
5. Avistar (I had one as a trainer, but my instructor insists this does not have a semi-symetrical wing, even though the box says so.)

I am also not sure whether or not these have the "semi-symetrical" wings.

Any other suggestions or recommendations on these or any others would be appreciated. The reason that I want to go the ARF route is to have it ready soon and by Memorial Day for our club funfly.

Check out the SIG 4 star. Low wing, semi-symetrical with dyhedral. Comes in a .40 and a .60 You can't go wrong with this plane. Don't tell your instructor what type of wing it is, see if he can figure it out. BTW, an Avistar wing is semi-symetrical. Joe

I'll second the Goldberg Tiger, or the Sig fourstar. Both are great planes!
And the Avistar is semi symetrical. The Other Hobbico , The Sports star or whatever it is, is a flat wing

I probably should have qualified my question a little. I do have a 4*60, and do fly it quite a bit. It has an OS91 Surpass 4 stroke on it. However, I did modify it by adding a Super Mario Pilot so it is heavier than it should be. While I will contine to fly it, I would like something in the 40 size and want to avoid having the same plane in a smaller configuration. Also, with the loss of the Magic Extra, I have all of the parts, rx, battery, and servos all in good condition to switch to another plane. Here is a pic of the 60, just want to add to my fleet.

If you want something in the forty size I would suggest either the [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCLX6&P=0]Tower Hobbies Voyager[/link] or maybe the [link=http://www.theworldmodels.com/para/products/airplanedetails.php?airplaneid=69#]World Models Skiraider Mach II[/link].
I have the Voyager and love to fly it, a group of people in our local club has the skiraider and they are using them as racers. Both are nice looking planes.
John

What about a Space Walker II. I think those are 40 sized, or at least one of the Space Walkers are. Or do those have a fully symetrical wing?

If you're looking for a plane to practice in cross winds, I'd go for a trike. I am very very partial to WM so I would recommend a SS40S. They may not be the prettiest planes but they definitely are one of the sweetest flying.

By the way, if WM people are reading this, let me know so that I can tell you who I am so you can give me a bigger discount next I'm at the store, you guys are way too cheap with your discounts! :-) Honestly, though, WM kits are really great... easy to build and super to fly. Some people say that they don't last over two seasons... I have a solution to those problems, fly often!

All,
I appreciate your input and have done the following research:

1. Sky Raider Mach II - Symetrical Wing
2. Tower Hobby Voyager - (Good suggestion.) Can I remove some of the decals on the wing etc? Not sure I want to fly a plane with Tower Hobby advertisement on it. (Not a big deal though.)
3. Space Walker II - I like the plane, only problem, I read the manual and looked at the website, can't tell if it is symetrical or semi wing. Manual does not indicate. And I question the engine mounting. By angling the engine, my adjustment for the lower end idle will be pointed towards the ground. (Again, not a big deal.)
4. World Models Super Sports 40S - OK if it has a semi-symetrical wing, documentation on the net doesn't indicate. Also, not sure what price is. Will check further though.

Here is were I am at. Still considering all except any symetrical wing. Only one I know for sure is the Sky Raider Mach II (fully symetrical) , Voyager will work, and the Goldberg Tiger 2. If I can find out about the others and their wing config. I will consider them. Does anyone out there know what they might be?

I have another plane for consideration, but do not know anything about its handling characteristics. I am looking at the SEAGULL PC-19 40 from Horizon Hobby. It has a low wing, semi-symetrical shape, is a trike, and has some dihedral. Does anyone have any experience with this plane?

I would recomend the Kaos 40. I fly one right now and I am very satisfied with it. I was kinda worried about the decals on the arf (like on the voyager), but on the kaos, the decals come in the box, but they're not applied. You don't have to advertise if you don't want to.

GP super sportster 40 is a nice plane.....I did some mods and re-covered mine....JW

The SS40S runs 99 dollars and is one sweet flying plane... I have one and it is a real fun plane... Another not mentioned Is the WM T-34 which runs 129.00. This is a tough builtplane that is great at pattern, speed or just about anything you want to do with it... It lands like a trainer and is rock solid in the air... OK WM did I earn that discount yet :-]

I have a kit built Kaos and it is what I fly when I want an adrenaline rush. Havent flown the ARF. Another good flying plane is the WM T-34. I flew the heck outta mine before it finally came apart. Not in midair, luckily. First time at the field I found out that I had drilled a hole into the fuel tank. Fuel was running out of the tail. Other than that, it took quite a beating and kept on flying.

My condolences. If it has not been suggested, consider the Great Planes Cap. I am just finishing mine. It took me only one evening to trace all the parts to poster board (I only purchase kits once). I am putting a GMS .76 up front, and so far the balance looks about right. Building went without a hitch for the most part, just take a good look at how the fuselage fits together prior to glueing. The top doesn't quite fit the sides as the plans call for, but it is nothing you can not think your way around.

P.S. It would be advantageous to learn to use the rudder, particularly in high wind conditions. Using the rudder, you practically make your turns with the wings level. Just a thought. Good luck on your choice.

I’m flying a Kaos 40 ARF with a Ivine 53 and it flies great. I just completed a Kaos kit that is modified and has a OS 46 FX. See images below.

Hook,
The Tower decals come in the box and you do not have to apply them. I have the voyager and it is the second one that I have owned. Both of them ended up not having the decals applied to the aircraft. I like the color scheme of the airplane over a few others that I have seen.
It is a good flier and easy to handle on landings and such.
I also own a World Models T34 which is another excellent choice of a good flier and with the right engine like a irvine, it would be a quick one too.
John

I have built and flown kit versions of both the Tiger 2 and the Kaos 40, and have flown other club members' ARF versions of both models. They both have semi-symetrical airfoils and trike gear. They have slightly different flight characteristics, but (IMHO) the better and the poorer characteristics of each average to about even. The Tiger wind is rectangular and the Kaos wings tapers to a narrow tip chord. The Tiger 2 has a slightly thicker airfoil and a bit more wing area, while coming out at about the same weight as the Kaos. Both are trike geared. Both penetrate windwell, and are easily controllable in reasonable cross winds. In my opinion the Kaos needs a bit more speed for take off and landing. While neither would qualify for 3D maneuvers, both aircraft are capable of performing most aerobatic manuevers reasonably well. The Kaos has a slightly faster and more nearly axial roll, and performs zippier snap rolls. Both models stick well on landing, and as mentioned the Tiger 2 has a controlable approach speed slightly slower than the Kaos.

I have only a very few flights with a Space Walker II. It also has semi-symmetrical airfoil, but is conventional gear. Although still a .40 class model, it is significantly larger than either mentioned above. The larger side area does offer more surface to cross winds, although not really a problem because the tail lifts quickly during power up and the rudder provides posistive authority during taxi, takeoff and landing approach. Definitely on the up side, the model does absolutely beautiful transitions from landing glide to touch down on the mains (we have a grass field) and slowly down on to the tail wheel. The one I've flown was a little sluggish when rolling, but easily performed slow rolls which drew praise from our usually wise cracking peanut gallery.

Summing up....all three of these models are great with 40-46 2cycle engines. In my opinion;
1. The Space Walker is a joy to fly, makes me look like a better pilot than I am, and with very few occurances of adrenaline surge.
2. The Kaos is a great flyer, with some zest, and easily performs some of the more aggressive aerobatics, like snap rolls and tight spins.
3. The Tiger 2 is also great flyer, with a flight envelope about in the middle of the other two. In my opinion it is the easiest to land, in calm, or with cross winds.

Another one that definately qualifies is the World Models "Rambler". These are semi-symetrical low wing ARF's that float like trainers.

These even come with retracts....installed. Of course, if you don't have a 5 channel radio, you could simply keep them locked down.

http://www.winnerrc.com/Arfairplane/...ambler40%20#14

Best of luck to ya!

Gary

So many planes, so little time :-]

The Tiger 2 is an excellent everyday plane. If set up with the right CG and throws, it can be very responsive also, but still land better than any trainer. It also handles wind VERY well.

I also 2nd (or 3rd?) the votes for the WM SS 40 and T-34. These are GREAT flying planes...I own both, but do prefer the T-34. When people see me fly it, they are amazed at what it can do after seeing the smallish control surfaces on it. I flew the SS 40 all winter as my "ski-plane". It has about 200 flights on it and still looks great. Both of these planes have symmetrical airfoils, but are as stable as any plane with a semi-symmetrical airfoil, so I wouldn't worry about that.

IronCross: You are absolutely right, but I knew this would probably be the result. However, with the parameters that I listed, it did provide me a good list of possible choices. I was aware it would be like asking "What's a good trainer?" or "What is the best second plane?" ...lol

That said, I have narrowed my choices to those below. I will make a final decision by tomorrow. I investigated every plane suggested and made my list of final choices based on my personal preferences. On the other comments about aerobatics, snap rolls, loops, etc, I do appreciate all of the input. I already have a Somethin Extra, Ultra Stick 60 and a 4*60 that serve that area. Really, for me this is a plane that will be used for practice and skill improvement on the cross wind issues. It was one area that both my instructor and I agreed that we really let slip. This is my third year flying, and am flying inverted, doing rolls, hammerheads, etc. I do have 2 radios, JR662 and 8103 so I can load any of these final choices on one of my radios. Admittedly, this was the worst crosswind that I have attempted to fly in. It probably would have gone better with a heavier plane like the 4*60, but I just took one plane to the field that day. (Murphy's law)

My Choices (not in any particular order) are:

-Goldberg Tiger 2
-Voyager
-Rambler (like the idea of the retracts)

Again, thanks to everyone on this thread, you really helped me a lot. I will put in my final choice and welcome any other comments. All of you have a great Spring and Summer flying season.

BTW: The Magic Extra is repairable. The whole plane is intact from the LE to the rear. No nose left, and the LE at one of the mounting dowels is broken. So, when I get the urge to put it back together I will do so. However, it still would not be the type of plane I need for what I am planning to do.

Mike

I live in Missouri, and its unusual to have a day with out at least 10 mph wind. I have flown in 20 steady gusting to 30, and my Ultra sport 40 handles it with grace, the 46 is perfect engine for the ultra sport and most 40-size planes. The problem is, and correct me if I’m wrong, they don’t make the ultra sport any more, and I don’t think it ever came as an ARF. I just purchased and put together a Venus 40 ARF, very nice work by Great planes, and it seems to land even better than the Ultra sport. I’m sure you got a lot of advice on landing in a cross, but the safest way in my opinion is to bring it lined up with the runway till you get over it, then turn it into the wind, then let drop on down.

Hooked:

Just to keep everything straight, the Tiger II has a fully symetrical airfoil. But don't hold it against it, it is at least as forgiving as the other two.

Having flown all three, I'd take the Rambler for cross wind practice because it has the highest wing loading and therefore will penetrate the wind best.

Jim

Thanks JRF, I am just about to order either the Rambler or the Voyager. The draw of the retracts is something I have to admit is making my choice harder between the two. If I do it by price it's the Voyager, if not, then the Rambler is the one. May end up flipping a coin, but will let you know what my final is.

BTW: Thanks for the info on the Tiger II wing config. It really isn't that big of a deal, but both my instructor and I felt the semi would be better.

Great Planes Super Sportster - it's a fully symetrical wing, but real thick. The 46FX will make it a fast flyer, but it's pretty tame. Many people rate this as an excellent second plane.

Also consider the World Models T-34. It's semi-symetrical and pretty acrobatic. At SCCMAS, we have t-34 races and the stock motor is the 46FX. They rip.