I have an almost ideal situation here. I fly at the site of an old amusement park. It is quite large and has long asphalt roads in good conditions that are fine for landing airplanes. It is far away from everything else, so it is quite safe, and there are no neighbors to complain. The closest building is a YKK zipper factory a kilometer or two off.

The best part is it is public land. We fly without a club. Just a group of 12 or so adults who respect one another's judgment. No safety officers, no club officials, and no dues. When the field needs cleaned we all chip in. It is an ideal set-up. The problem is now one of the guys made a frequency board. That was OK, but then he made a list of rules. The rules aren't bad, but some of us are worried where this is going. We don't want a club. We don't need or want rules.

The question is, how do you think we can stop it without causing a lot of bad feelings?

Beergator

Who's in the majority?
Sounds like someone is more interested in safety than simply a
bunch of dumb old rules. Did this person observe something at
your flying site that brought about his feelings for the need of the
safety standards?
Long live the revolution !
Down with the establishment !

Randy

If I am not mistaken the AMA will not insure you if the rules and a board are not on site, this could be his motive.

The thing is, we are in Japan. There is no AMA, and we get our insurance here through other means. We all have it, though it isn't as important as in America.

The majority of the folks at the field are like me. I see the ever increasing regulation of everything as a negative trait. There has been a dangerous pilot come before. An old guy flying a chopper. We all just stop flying and move away till he is done. No rules, no conflict, simple solution.

I would have no problem with the rules if it was an organized club, if there were dues to be paid and services being provided. It is really just one guy who likes to manage other people. There are such in every group. Nothing wrong with it, I just worry it is going to remove some of the relaxed casual atmosphere of the place.

It wouldn't even be so bad if it stopped there, but I worry it will continue to get worse. Regulations are like government agencies, they never dissapear, they just grow.

I like clubs too, but this has been refreshing in it's differentness.

Beergator

A frequency board is always a good idea. One man's list of rules is not. If the "rules" are in line with what normally goes on at your field then just ignore it. Maybe this fellow brought this out for any new fliers that might show up. If he has stuff written down that you and your other fellow fliers don't agree with then don't pay any attention to it. If there is no club then there is no one to tell you that you must adhere to this guy's rules. If you are in the majority then I don't see a problem with this approach. Hopefully he will understand your point and leave his rules sheet at home. Good luck.

Amen, what is this guy's recourse if you just go about your business as usuall? If he iritates you with "His" rules just ignore him Grasshopper, if he persist, then you must rely on the code of Bushido and challenge him to a duel at sunrise. Two Samurai, face to face, nothing between you but the hardened steel of your faithful katanas. Let Hachiman determine who is right and who will go onto the next life. Fly to your hearts content my son!

Thoes freek'n loin cloth weggies kill don't they.

So tell me, did this guy come down from Mt. Fuji with the commandments etched in stone? Does he have an army of Samurai i warriors to enforce HIS rules? It sounds like you guys have got it together and you don't need no steenkin' rules!

Just about.

There is a full fledged club about 15 minutes from my apartment, but I drive about 45 minutes one way because it is really nice to be with a lot of guys who just want to fly.

There are always people who think no danger is acceptable. There are those who feel more comfortable with posted rules, regulations, and methods to enforce them. There are those who enjoy arranging and organizing.

There are also those who can handle problems among themselves without a set apparatus for it. We are just some buddies who fly together instead of fishing.

We don't need no stinking rules!

Beergator

If you guys are flying without an agreed upon style (rules) then , to put it politely you are just accidents waiting to happen. I have upwards of $3000 invested n my planes and no way would I ever fly them without everyone understanding what a frequency board is and uses one. Whats the big deal about having a set of rules for the protection of everyone? NONE of you are such good pilots as to be accident proof. Grow up!!!

I'm with hanger Rat. I will not fly anywhere a freq board of some sort is not in use. It is simply begging for a shoot-down. And shoot-down's are the most unacceptable (and preventable) part of this hobby IMHO.

Dude, I agree with you. I fly with the 'Black Sheep Squadron' here in Florence, SC, and we are NOT AMA ruled. We fly the way we want. If you do not like it, you can go elsewhere.

We let flyers fly by invite only, so if someone wants to come in playing the rulez game, we no longer invite him.

We all have enough sence to know, and memorize, each others freqs. If a low skill flyer is up, the rest of us stay down.

Its a freaking hobby, not the government.

Oh, think we are a bunch of wanna be's? Then explain why Kirk Gray flys at our field for nationals pattern practice.

If you are a true flying group, rules are spoken, not written.

Later.
RadFly

Radfly, you sound like a well educated. knowledgable experienced flyer. It should be comforting to know that all these guys at the field have memorized all the frequencies. Much better than having a board where you clip a pin on a number.
Like you said "It's a freaking hobby. Not the government"
How about driving a car? Do you follow the rules of the road?

Sounds like you have a group of flyers trying to regulate the "field" There usually is no problem with that type of management. The problem arises when the "nonflyers" in the club begin to make the rules. The last club I belonged to was like that. All the club officers were nonflying members, who really liked to tell everybody who did fly what to do. Be careful it can turn quickly.

Brian

You mean there are 'rules of the road'?

Dude, my point is, if the guys mutually agree there is a reason to change the way things were going, then rules may be implemented, if mutually agreed upon.

In the original post, this does not seem to be the case.

Lets stick to the topic, and stop picking at each other. We are all big boys here. I think.

If we are big boys stop calling me "dude" it's infantile and rude.

thats why you need a club!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:surprised

Whoa.... someone brought a can of gasoline to the bar-b-que!!!!

We fly out of a cow pasture, with no freq board, but there is seldom more than 8-10 planes on the flight line at a time. The usual procedure is to walk the pits before you start, and ask everyone what they are flying on. If you find someone using the same freq as you, you maintain better contact with them, and take turns. We also call out our freq number before firing up every time. These aren't rules, we just do it out of habit I guess.

To my knowledge there has never been a shoot down in the 11 years I have been flying at our site.

As for safety and structure at the field, AMA has a suggested guideline for how a field should be laid out, pits, spectator areas, fly and no fly zones. Suggested doesn't mean it's the law, and our pasture has none of these things either. We have had some close calls (a crash near the flight line or two) but we have had worse close calls at our other field which is to the letter like the AMA layout (crashes into the spectator areas)

The bottom line is have fun, be safety concious and considerate toward others and you should be fine. If someone bothers you, ignore them, avoid them, or pee in their fuel. They will be home for a week trying to figure out why their engine doesn't run, and you won't have to worry about them bothering you.

Dan

(Why do I always go for shock factor???)

I used to travel about the same distance to find a good place to fly, now i have to travel 1:30 minutes, to have a good place to fly I do fly at a close location also about 10 minutes.....

It sound like you either accept his authority of defy it....in other word tell him the majority do not want any rules and if he insist tell him to leave, but then the atmosphere would be change forever, since most likely he has a close buddy or two in the group....

Difficult situation but obviously cannot make everybody happy in this one.

Daniel D.

ivarb:

If there is no official club. Who said you have to obey His rules.

Good news actually. We found out that the person pushing the rules was not the one everybody thought. It is actually no surprise when we learned who was really behind it. Everyone just nodded their heads and said, "Of course."

The really good news is it is someone who no one cares what he thinks. He likes to make rules but almost never flies. It feels very comfortable to ignore him now. Even better, he is almost always gone before I even get there.

The field has changed forever though. He has posted the rules, and the carefree days are gone.

There are rarely more than 5 or so people at a time at the field, and we have never had a shoot down. It has always been ruled by common sense. Quite unlike the new rules. Here are a few examples;

1. No more than two airplanes at once in the air.
2. No low passes over the runway.
3. Beginning pilots can not fly alone.

That last one really peeves me. I had to teach myself because my gear was Mode 2 and everyone here flies Mode 1. Obviously that is an exception to a rule, but why have the rule if we are going to make exceptions. Every case is unique. Every individual is unique. Let common sense rule.

Beergator

Like I said.
There is no club, therefore NO RULES. You can't let one person dictate to you.

i have found out that if a new member gos to a club he will get more help and learn more then just going to a cow pastor and hopeing some body will help him. most of the time thay want get help and thay get upset and get out of the hobby. and that is a shame!!!!!!

Pittss127,

I agree with you completely that a new person to the hobby would do himself well by going to a club for help, especially if they have an AMA pilot training program etc. But that has nothing to do with the person who started this thread. This thread is about rules being forced on individuals, and has nothing to do with clubs.


The cow pasture in our situation actually does work better than going to the club, because we have no hobby shops in our town, and no real "first contact" point that would indicate to a new person that we even have a club. The cow pasture is often the first place that new people come to, to get a look at the hobby, and some of the people that are doing it. From there they are usually introduced to the club, and join if they want.

BTW: Ivarb, "No more than two planes in the air at a time?" I know you are flying in Japan, but in the USA we have fought hard to have the many frequencies we have.

"No low passes over the runway?" How the heck are you supposed to practice approaches?

Have fun at the sign removal party!!!!!


Dan

IVARB, rip down the sign and defecate on it! I'm not a rabblerouser, just don't like people trying to enforce their will upon me. A group discussion would let you know if all your flying buddies want these rules or not. Why not hang your own set of anti-rules? 1) as many can fly as everyone is comfortable with at the same time. (If you're uptight by too many in the air, yell out "landing" and land!) 2) Fly as low as gravity will allow as long as the direction of your destruction is away from the flightline. (people tend to monitor their own investments) 3) Beginning pilots should seek the help of the more experienced, but should they be unavailable or unwilling to help, get a buddy (to drive you to the hospital when you slice open that artery from the prop) and learn on your own when everyone leaves the field. 4) The majority rules! By the way I fly at an AMA sanctioned, highly regulated and SAFE field, I love it that way, I go there by my own choice. That's what it's all about, choice, you can choose to leave or not fly there.