Need Magic 3D setup guidance
08-12-2004 | 09:20 AM
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From: Los Alamos,
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Need Magic 3D setup guidance
I'm starting to assemble a Magic 3D (not the extra). Since I'm still a novice I will not be flying it 3D. A member at the club allowed me to fly his and it was a very comfortable plane to fly on low rates. Here is my question:
Is it really necessary to use the pull-pull setup? At this stage of my experience level I can't see myself using maximum throws and putting a large enough force on the control surfaces. I'll be using upgraded hardware as recommended in multiple discussions on RCU ( flex tank, Dubro adjustable control horns, more robust landing gear). I'll also be modifying the wing to get rid of those rubber bands and I'll be installing a steerable tailwheel. Since I'm at 7000 feet I'll be using a OS-46FX with a APC 12x4 prop. Taching the engine with this prop resulted in 13200 rpm with a Tower muffler. The pull-pull setup just seems excessive to me. The Phoenix Funstar for example does not require this setup and has control surfaces of similar size. I did not get the Funstar, which is a better looking plane, because I want a 40-size plane that is light enough to handlaunch. Any thoughts?
Is it really necessary to use the pull-pull setup? At this stage of my experience level I can't see myself using maximum throws and putting a large enough force on the control surfaces. I'll be using upgraded hardware as recommended in multiple discussions on RCU ( flex tank, Dubro adjustable control horns, more robust landing gear). I'll also be modifying the wing to get rid of those rubber bands and I'll be installing a steerable tailwheel. Since I'm at 7000 feet I'll be using a OS-46FX with a APC 12x4 prop. Taching the engine with this prop resulted in 13200 rpm with a Tower muffler. The pull-pull setup just seems excessive to me. The Phoenix Funstar for example does not require this setup and has control surfaces of similar size. I did not get the Funstar, which is a better looking plane, because I want a 40-size plane that is light enough to handlaunch. Any thoughts?
08-12-2004 | 11:19 AM
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From: San Diego, CA
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
No, pull-pull (actually Push-push on mine) is not necessary. Are you thinking of running a single pushrod?
Good luck. I love my Magic.
Good luck. I love my Magic.
08-12-2004 | 11:23 AM
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From: Los Alamos,
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RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Yes, single 4-40 pushrod. Will most likely put either the rudder or elevator servo in the rear of the fuse to balance the OS-46FX.
Thanks for you feedback.
Thanks for you feedback.
08-17-2004 | 08:15 PM
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RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
mine balanced right on the dot with a os 46fx with the stock muffler (no counter wieght), i live a t a high altitude as well and mine is great,
You will find that the plane will grow with you, it is very easy to fly on low rates, but once you start pushing the sticks on high rated you will do things you never thought you could do, but be AWARE the plane can get out of hand FAST on high rates
I also think you should stick with the stock gear, it really comes in handy on a hard landing (the stock gear is extremely forgiving and will take the shock)
A.D.
good luck
You will find that the plane will grow with you, it is very easy to fly on low rates, but once you start pushing the sticks on high rated you will do things you never thought you could do, but be AWARE the plane can get out of hand FAST on high rates
I also think you should stick with the stock gear, it really comes in handy on a hard landing (the stock gear is extremely forgiving and will take the shock)
A.D.
good luck
08-17-2004 | 10:18 PM
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RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
I did the review in RC Report on the Magic. Mine is well worn but stil performs well with all the standard hardware. I do 3d and hover with it on all flights. I'm not sure what was recomended here on RCU but the stock stuff is fine. DO NOT tear out the tubes that run to the tail. I am currently using Kevlar cord run through the tubes to the back were they are tied off on the servo arms and a drop of CA.
At the servo end I run the elevator strings through the servo arm then center the elevator pull the strings taught wrap around the servo arm screw then tighten down the screw it will really be tight and you save weight. for the rudder do the same thing it really works fine. I have doubled the rudder area and had to add tail supports after an inflight failure of the vert stab. In the stock configuration you don't need the support.
DO NOT ADD extra stuff you THINK you need. As for the gear it took me about 60 flights for mine to break. Fly the one you have till failure who knows how long it may last. Don't add a tailwheel I fly mine off of grass as well as pavement. I can taxi out and take off just fine hold a little down elevator full rudder and a shot of power and the tail lifts and swings around. with a cross wind you will have problems but then all taildragers will have problems
Weight is a killer don't add extra stuff take stuff off. Don't add the wing bolts rubber bands are lighter
Let me know how it goes.
Sparky
At the servo end I run the elevator strings through the servo arm then center the elevator pull the strings taught wrap around the servo arm screw then tighten down the screw it will really be tight and you save weight. for the rudder do the same thing it really works fine. I have doubled the rudder area and had to add tail supports after an inflight failure of the vert stab. In the stock configuration you don't need the support.
DO NOT ADD extra stuff you THINK you need. As for the gear it took me about 60 flights for mine to break. Fly the one you have till failure who knows how long it may last. Don't add a tailwheel I fly mine off of grass as well as pavement. I can taxi out and take off just fine hold a little down elevator full rudder and a shot of power and the tail lifts and swings around. with a cross wind you will have problems but then all taildragers will have problems
Weight is a killer don't add extra stuff take stuff off. Don't add the wing bolts rubber bands are lighter
Let me know how it goes.
Sparky
08-18-2004 | 06:53 AM
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From: \'da Boonies ,
TN
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Ditto on what Sparky said. Keep it light! I used an OS 50SX on mine with a Slimline pitts muffler and an APC 12.25-3.75 prop. I also used a Sullivan 8oz. Flextank and built a tray to mount the battery at the rear of the wing saddle, above the servos. I kept the stock metal rod pull pull arrangement on mine. I soldered some wire around the joint where the leading and trailing legs of the landing gear join.
Keep the rubber bands, and tail skid. The extra weight just insn't worth the effort.
The Magic is one of my favorite planes. It's just as comfortable doing whatever violent manuver you can dream up as it is just putting around like a Tiger Moth.
Keep the rubber bands, and tail skid. The extra weight just insn't worth the effort.
The Magic is one of my favorite planes. It's just as comfortable doing whatever violent manuver you can dream up as it is just putting around like a Tiger Moth.
08-18-2004 | 08:05 AM
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From: Coventry , RI
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Just a thought. You may not be up to the challenge of tweeking the throws right away but the magic 3D was made for exactly what it says 3D and eventually you will want that radical throw for trying to practice to hover and all other manuvers. Even if you dable in it for now to even experiment with hovering you need 45% deflection in elvators and rudder because your plane wont stay upright at all with out it. Just make sure it can handle it when you do want it.
08-18-2004 | 08:57 AM
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RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Magics on sail at hobby people for 79.95.
I should mention that I am flying with a webra speed .32 with a mini pipe APC 10x3 and it accelerates straight up. I have a 600 MAH battery pack above my elevator servo it lays flat and rests on 2 rails glued in the fuse. I have 3 oz of weight screwed to the tail for a very aft weight plane.
Sparky
I should mention that I am flying with a webra speed .32 with a mini pipe APC 10x3 and it accelerates straight up. I have a 600 MAH battery pack above my elevator servo it lays flat and rests on 2 rails glued in the fuse. I have 3 oz of weight screwed to the tail for a very aft weight plane.
Sparky
08-18-2004 | 10:21 AM
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From: Oak Harbor, WA
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
I am also getting ready to build my Magic, had it sitting in the box for about a year now.
I was planning on using the gear from an old SE I crashed instead of the stock one. I'll be flying off asphalt so don't need the clearance the stock gear was designed to provide.
Elmshoot, can you provide a pic of the pull - pull setup with the kevlar? I think I've seen it before but can't remember exactly how it was hooked onto the control horns. Thanks.
I was planning on using the gear from an old SE I crashed instead of the stock one. I'll be flying off asphalt so don't need the clearance the stock gear was designed to provide.
Elmshoot, can you provide a pic of the pull - pull setup with the kevlar? I think I've seen it before but can't remember exactly how it was hooked onto the control horns. Thanks.
08-18-2004 | 11:54 AM
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From: Los Alamos,
NM
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Thanks for all the good suggestions. I have decided to stick with the rubber bands - easier on the fuse in case of a harder than expected landing. I moved the elevator servo next to the throttle servo (since I'm only using single 4-40 pushrod), kept the rudder servo in it's original location, cut off the rear of the servo tray, put the battery at the rear of the wing saddle, and slipped the RX in the little area behind the wing saddle. I only needed a small amount of weight in the tail to balance and therefore replaced the skid with a steerable tailwheel. That took care of the balance issue. It's ready for the maiden! Can you hand-launch this thing (OS-46FX with 12x4 APC)? Sure feels light enough.
08-18-2004 | 07:31 PM
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From: Canyon Country, CA
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
I couldnt pass up that price either. Anyone actually fly one of these with an OS .52FS?
Without buying an engine for this plane my other options are an OS .40SFR or a Super Tigre G51. Dont think the .40 would give me enough power for 3D and I would rather save the ST for something designed for speed.
Might just stash the plane away instead.
Without buying an engine for this plane my other options are an OS .40SFR or a Super Tigre G51. Dont think the .40 would give me enough power for 3D and I would rather save the ST for something designed for speed.
Might just stash the plane away instead.
ORIGINAL: elmshoot
Magics on sail at hobby people for 79.95.
I should mention that I am flying with a webra speed .32 with a mini pipe APC 10x3 and it accelerates straight up. I have a 600 MAH battery pack above my elevator servo it lays flat and rests on 2 rails glued in the fuse. I have 3 oz of weight screwed to the tail for a very aft weight plane.
Sparky
Magics on sail at hobby people for 79.95.
I should mention that I am flying with a webra speed .32 with a mini pipe APC 10x3 and it accelerates straight up. I have a 600 MAH battery pack above my elevator servo it lays flat and rests on 2 rails glued in the fuse. I have 3 oz of weight screwed to the tail for a very aft weight plane.
Sparky
08-18-2004 | 07:48 PM
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From: \'da Boonies ,
TN
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Dan, a 52FS with a 12.25-3.75 or maybe even a 13-4W APC ought to be a good combo. You might want to try the prop on the engines current plane or mount the engine on a stand to see what RPM's you can come up with. I've got another one and might try one of my Magnum 52FS's.
08-18-2004 | 09:57 PM
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RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Salty,
Sorry I don't have that technology available. Tie a square knot or granny knot on the outside hole in the control horn add a drop of ca. I leave a loop so that it isn't hard against the control horn. Then run the lines up the tubes. run each string through the outside hole in the servo arm from the bottom up on both sides. With a loose servo arm screw wrap the excess cord one turn in a CW direction with the control surface neutral and servo the same. Tighten the screw down. With the turning of the screw it will increase the line tension on the strings and you are done they haven't come loose at all in fact the problem I had was the strings getting to tight.
Salty25
I am also getting ready to build my Magic, had it sitting in the box for about a year now.
I was planning on using the gear from an old SE I crashed instead of the stock one. I'll be flying off asphalt so don't need the clearance the stock gear was designed to provide.
Elmshoot, can you provide a pic of the pull - pull setup with the kevlar? I think I've seen it before but can't remember exactly how it was hooked onto the control horns. Thanks.
Sorry I don't have that technology available. Tie a square knot or granny knot on the outside hole in the control horn add a drop of ca. I leave a loop so that it isn't hard against the control horn. Then run the lines up the tubes. run each string through the outside hole in the servo arm from the bottom up on both sides. With a loose servo arm screw wrap the excess cord one turn in a CW direction with the control surface neutral and servo the same. Tighten the screw down. With the turning of the screw it will increase the line tension on the strings and you are done they haven't come loose at all in fact the problem I had was the strings getting to tight.
Salty25
I am also getting ready to build my Magic, had it sitting in the box for about a year now.
I was planning on using the gear from an old SE I crashed instead of the stock one. I'll be flying off asphalt so don't need the clearance the stock gear was designed to provide.
Elmshoot, can you provide a pic of the pull - pull setup with the kevlar? I think I've seen it before but can't remember exactly how it was hooked onto the control horns. Thanks.
08-19-2004 | 07:41 PM
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From: Canyon Country, CA
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Thanks for the advice! The engine's current plane is a Global D-VII which is pretty boring to fly and more than a bit of a POS so I was figuring on stripping it for the Magic.
ORIGINAL: therotund1
Dan, a 52FS with a 12.25-3.75 or maybe even a 13-4W APC ought to be a good combo. You might want to try the prop on the engines current plane or mount the engine on a stand to see what RPM's you can come up with. I've got another one and might try one of my Magnum 52FS's.
Dan, a 52FS with a 12.25-3.75 or maybe even a 13-4W APC ought to be a good combo. You might want to try the prop on the engines current plane or mount the engine on a stand to see what RPM's you can come up with. I've got another one and might try one of my Magnum 52FS's.
09-07-2004 | 03:46 PM
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From: Canyon Country, CA
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
My gear broke on the second flight. De-welded itself where the two struts come together above the right wheel. Not happy about that but no real biggie, just ended my flying day earlier than I would have wanted.
Definitely found that Hitec 311 servos dont have what it takes to get full throws out of the rudder.
Will replace the rudder and possibly the elevator servos with 425's. I had a feeling but the 311's were on hand.
Definitely found that Hitec 311 servos dont have what it takes to get full throws out of the rudder.
Will replace the rudder and possibly the elevator servos with 425's. I had a feeling but the 311's were on hand.
ORIGINAL: elmshoot
I did the review in RC Report on the Magic. Mine is well worn but stil performs well with all the standard hardware. I do 3d and hover with it on all flights. I'm not sure what was recomended here on RCU but the stock stuff is fine. DO NOT tear out the tubes that run to the tail. I am currently using Kevlar cord run through the tubes to the back were they are tied off on the servo arms and a drop of CA.
At the servo end I run the elevator strings through the servo arm then center the elevator pull the strings taught wrap around the servo arm screw then tighten down the screw it will really be tight and you save weight. for the rudder do the same thing it really works fine. I have doubled the rudder area and had to add tail supports after an inflight failure of the vert stab. In the stock configuration you don't need the support.
DO NOT ADD extra stuff you THINK you need. As for the gear it took me about 60 flights for mine to break. Fly the one you have till failure who knows how long it may last. Don't add a tailwheel I fly mine off of grass as well as pavement. I can taxi out and take off just fine hold a little down elevator full rudder and a shot of power and the tail lifts and swings around. with a cross wind you will have problems but then all taildragers will have problems
Weight is a killer don't add extra stuff take stuff off. Don't add the wing bolts rubber bands are lighter
Let me know how it goes.
Sparky
I did the review in RC Report on the Magic. Mine is well worn but stil performs well with all the standard hardware. I do 3d and hover with it on all flights. I'm not sure what was recomended here on RCU but the stock stuff is fine. DO NOT tear out the tubes that run to the tail. I am currently using Kevlar cord run through the tubes to the back were they are tied off on the servo arms and a drop of CA.
At the servo end I run the elevator strings through the servo arm then center the elevator pull the strings taught wrap around the servo arm screw then tighten down the screw it will really be tight and you save weight. for the rudder do the same thing it really works fine. I have doubled the rudder area and had to add tail supports after an inflight failure of the vert stab. In the stock configuration you don't need the support.
DO NOT ADD extra stuff you THINK you need. As for the gear it took me about 60 flights for mine to break. Fly the one you have till failure who knows how long it may last. Don't add a tailwheel I fly mine off of grass as well as pavement. I can taxi out and take off just fine hold a little down elevator full rudder and a shot of power and the tail lifts and swings around. with a cross wind you will have problems but then all taildragers will have problems
Weight is a killer don't add extra stuff take stuff off. Don't add the wing bolts rubber bands are lighter
Let me know how it goes.
Sparky
09-07-2004 | 03:52 PM
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From: Canyon Country, CA
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Decided to keep the .52FS on the Fokker for now (stupid landing gear holddowns let go on me!) and got an OS .46AX for the Magic. Reading the latest review on that engine (either RCM or MAN) I saw that it will spin the 12.25X3.75APC prop with ease so figured the lighter AX would be better than the FS. Only had to add 1/2oz to the tail to balance at the suggested CG.
Got two flights out of it before the landing gear de-welded itself above the right wheel. Easy fix but kind of a pisser.
Was unable to hover it but that is probably due to newness with the plane. Might start moving the cg back a bit also.
Fun plane other than those probs.
Got two flights out of it before the landing gear de-welded itself above the right wheel. Easy fix but kind of a pisser.
Was unable to hover it but that is probably due to newness with the plane. Might start moving the cg back a bit also.
Fun plane other than those probs.
ORIGINAL: lazylazerflyer
run everything stock and you will be happy
in my opion a 52 is to big
its a very light plane
A.D.
run everything stock and you will be happy
in my opion a 52 is to big
its a very light plane
A.D.
09-07-2004 | 04:58 PM
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From: \'da Boonies ,
TN
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Well, I got inspired and put my Magic in the air! I sure missed this plane....
I chose to put one of my 46FX's on it with a Slimline pitts muffler. I've got an APC 11.5-4 on it and it will hover with ease power wise. I finally got to do a climbing flat spin! Yeehaw!!!! It's equipped with a Sullivan 8oz. Flextank, A Hitec Electron 6 reciever, 5 Futaba S3001 servos and a Hydramax 670MaH 4 cell AAA (small!) battery. I wrapped the stock gear where it joins at the lower leg with wire and silver soldered it together. I also replaced the "hump" clamps that hold the landing gear and tail wire on with Dubro's version. I remember on my last one these clamps sort of crumbled away after a while. I used the rest of the stock hardware.
I'm having a blast with it!
I chose to put one of my 46FX's on it with a Slimline pitts muffler. I've got an APC 11.5-4 on it and it will hover with ease power wise. I finally got to do a climbing flat spin! Yeehaw!!!! It's equipped with a Sullivan 8oz. Flextank, A Hitec Electron 6 reciever, 5 Futaba S3001 servos and a Hydramax 670MaH 4 cell AAA (small!) battery. I wrapped the stock gear where it joins at the lower leg with wire and silver soldered it together. I also replaced the "hump" clamps that hold the landing gear and tail wire on with Dubro's version. I remember on my last one these clamps sort of crumbled away after a while. I used the rest of the stock hardware.
I'm having a blast with it!
09-07-2004 | 06:25 PM
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From: ...,
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RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
where did you balance the plane to get it to do a climbing flat spin, mine will completely flaten out but not climb, its seems to fly very very bad when to tail heavy, i got as tail heavy as possible but still flyable
A.D.
A.D.
09-07-2004 | 06:43 PM
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From: \'da Boonies ,
TN
RE: Need Magic 3D setup guidance
Mine is actually slightly nose heavy at 105mm. When balanced at the recommended 115mm it would need 1-1/2 oz. of weight on the tail and I decided to fly it first and see how it acted. Seems fine the way it is except I need to put a little right thrust in it but, that shouldn't effect the flat spins.
I do have my throws set on "all I can get" and it will roll out if I give it too much input. It may be that I've got more control movement than you and am forcing it into the spin.
I would give you the throws but, the plane isn't here and I won't be able to get to it 'till the weekend. Needless to say that I do have triple rates (low rates per the instructions) set up on it. I am not using any expo in it yet but, I'm going to have to or I'll wear out my rates switch!
I do have my throws set on "all I can get" and it will roll out if I give it too much input. It may be that I've got more control movement than you and am forcing it into the spin.
I would give you the throws but, the plane isn't here and I won't be able to get to it 'till the weekend. Needless to say that I do have triple rates (low rates per the instructions) set up on it. I am not using any expo in it yet but, I'm going to have to or I'll wear out my rates switch!
