Wagstaff Extra 300
09-20-2003, 05:55 PM
#5326
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Locust Grove,
GA
Posts: 12,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: twin servo setup
Use the Ailevator function in the advance menu
Help guys. I need to know what the best mixing is when using 2 elevator servos using a FF8 Futaba.
Pmix 2 shows channels 2 and 6 in advanced setup.
Any ideas?
Pmix 2 shows channels 2 and 6 in advanced setup.
Any ideas?
10-10-2003, 07:14 AM
#5327
Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cordele,
GA
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
I witnessed a terrible site on our flying field yesterday. 10-9-03. One of our club members was flying his GP Wagstaff Extra 300 and at slow and level flight there was a loud "pop" and then the cowl and engine seperated from where the firewall meets the fuselage. Not where the engine bolts up to but where it actually joins the fuse on the backside. The plane is totalled and there was nothing that could be done to prevent it from coming down. It will be interesting to see if GP makes this right and if they have some "beefing up" to do.
10-10-2003, 12:09 PM
#5329
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roseville,
CA
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
I am assembling my GP Exrtra and the only Mods I am making is the rear tail wheel - going to a Sullivan mounted system that connects to the rudder with the small cables. Otherwise any other important upgrades like better hinges or are the stock ones okey. If so what arethe best easily available replacment hinges and size available.
Any other important upgrades to do on this plane.
Any other important upgrades to do on this plane.
10-10-2003, 01:52 PM
#5330
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lockport,
NY
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
Basil:
The stock CA hinges they give you are more than enough. I'm on my 2nd GP Patty Extra and the first one went in so hard it bent the crank, but the hinges never pulled out or failed, even though the whole plane was totaled. If you put in CA hinges properly they will last longer than the plastic ones any day.
The stock CA hinges they give you are more than enough. I'm on my 2nd GP Patty Extra and the first one went in so hard it bent the crank, but the hinges never pulled out or failed, even though the whole plane was totaled. If you put in CA hinges properly they will last longer than the plastic ones any day.
10-10-2003, 05:18 PM
#5331
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roseville,
CA
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
That sounds good because the CA hinges are good for nice gap between controll surfaces and thin CA dosn't gum up the hinge. Some others were comenting that they replaced the hinges. I am putting in a DA50 what extra reingforcment have you used to make sure the Motor mounting are doesn't separate. I noticed they included a bag of small hard wood blocks with the plane are these to reinforce the motor mount area.
10-10-2003, 05:44 PM
#5332
My Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: West Jordan,
UT
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
No, those are for attaching the cowl to.
Just pin the firewall per instructions and you should be fine. I am in process of building mine.
My bud has flipped his over several times and has had no issues with motor mount/fiirewall strength.
Now, as far as the hinges are concerned, I have seen many CA Hinge failers. I would not put a $1600 plane in the air with them in my surfaces. I am using DuBro Heavy duty pinned hinges and others are using robart hinge points. I chose the DuBros because they have the same footprint as the CA hinges, which will effectivly use the backing blocks for the CA hinges better than the robarts.
It is all a matter of opinion. Why take the risk though when the cost is not much different.
Many may say that they have not had trouble with the CA hinges. Most will tell you that after a crash, that they did not pull out. Pulling out is not the problem, breaking at the hinge line is. Imagine a piece of metal, paper, fiberglass tape, CA hinge (considering that we add hardening CA to them) bent back and forth many times. What does it eventually do? Breaks. Pinned hinges are designed to pivot over and over and over with little or no wear and stressing. Don't get me wrong here, I use them (CA Hinges) all the time in my 40 size planes and love them, but that is a whole different machine size, weight, and effective load on the surface. Again, a matter of opinion.
Hope this helps,
Jason
Just pin the firewall per instructions and you should be fine. I am in process of building mine.
My bud has flipped his over several times and has had no issues with motor mount/fiirewall strength.
Now, as far as the hinges are concerned, I have seen many CA Hinge failers. I would not put a $1600 plane in the air with them in my surfaces. I am using DuBro Heavy duty pinned hinges and others are using robart hinge points. I chose the DuBros because they have the same footprint as the CA hinges, which will effectivly use the backing blocks for the CA hinges better than the robarts.
It is all a matter of opinion. Why take the risk though when the cost is not much different.
Many may say that they have not had trouble with the CA hinges. Most will tell you that after a crash, that they did not pull out. Pulling out is not the problem, breaking at the hinge line is. Imagine a piece of metal, paper, fiberglass tape, CA hinge (considering that we add hardening CA to them) bent back and forth many times. What does it eventually do? Breaks. Pinned hinges are designed to pivot over and over and over with little or no wear and stressing. Don't get me wrong here, I use them (CA Hinges) all the time in my 40 size planes and love them, but that is a whole different machine size, weight, and effective load on the surface. Again, a matter of opinion.
Hope this helps,
Jason
10-10-2003, 06:02 PM
#5333
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Canastota ,
NY
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just say no to CA hinges!
The stock GP ca hinges are garbage!
I used them on my first build of this plane, even used a grease pencil to keep em flexing.
Lost 3 of 4 on rudder, landed ok.
Lost an elevator half not long after, bent the gear on that landing.
Like Silvereagle2 said....."why take the risk on a plane this size and cost"???
FYI: robart pinned hinges with the jig are EASIER to install than CA hinges, they fall right in.
I used them on my first build of this plane, even used a grease pencil to keep em flexing.
Lost 3 of 4 on rudder, landed ok.
Lost an elevator half not long after, bent the gear on that landing.
Like Silvereagle2 said....."why take the risk on a plane this size and cost"???
FYI: robart pinned hinges with the jig are EASIER to install than CA hinges, they fall right in.
10-11-2003, 07:44 AM
#5335
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Locust Grove,
GA
Posts: 12,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
What engine did he use and what is his flying style?
Did he install the small dowls to the firewall to strengthen it.
I would be suprised if it came apart at the glue joint.
Did he install the small dowls to the firewall to strengthen it.
I would be suprised if it came apart at the glue joint.
ORIGINAL: FlintFlyer-VP
I witnessed a terrible site on our flying field yesterday. 10-9-03. One of our club members was flying his GP Wagstaff Extra 300 and at slow and level flight there was a loud "pop" and then the cowl and engine seperated from where the firewall meets the fuselage. Not where the engine bolts up to but where it actually joins the fuse on the backside. The plane is totalled and there was nothing that could be done to prevent it from coming down. It will be interesting to see if GP makes this right and if they have some "beefing up" to do.
I witnessed a terrible site on our flying field yesterday. 10-9-03. One of our club members was flying his GP Wagstaff Extra 300 and at slow and level flight there was a loud "pop" and then the cowl and engine seperated from where the firewall meets the fuselage. Not where the engine bolts up to but where it actually joins the fuse on the backside. The plane is totalled and there was nothing that could be done to prevent it from coming down. It will be interesting to see if GP makes this right and if they have some "beefing up" to do.
10-11-2003, 08:20 AM
#5336
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lockport,
NY
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
Basil:
Read the instructions, the hardwood blocks are to mount the cowl. You need to pin the firewall for strength for your engine, as per the instructions. If you do that the DA50 will be fine for that plane. I use a BME50 on mine, basically the same engine and no extra 'beefing up' was needed.
Just follow the instructions and use what Great Planes gave you and the plane will be fine. My only recommendation on changing anything is the tail wheel. Although the one GP gives you is fine, it tends to fall apart after awhile. It is (in my opinion) way too small.
Read the instructions, the hardwood blocks are to mount the cowl. You need to pin the firewall for strength for your engine, as per the instructions. If you do that the DA50 will be fine for that plane. I use a BME50 on mine, basically the same engine and no extra 'beefing up' was needed.
Just follow the instructions and use what Great Planes gave you and the plane will be fine. My only recommendation on changing anything is the tail wheel. Although the one GP gives you is fine, it tends to fall apart after awhile. It is (in my opinion) way too small.
10-11-2003, 08:30 AM
#5337
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lockport,
NY
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: just say no to CA hinges!
lgodin-RCU:
Why would you use a grease pencil anywhere near a CA hinge? Glue does not stick to grease! Also, grease does not make plastic flex (a CA hinge is a form of plastic that is coated with material that will make the CA glue adhere to itself and wood). Grease is used on metal, not plastic. There's nothing that will make plastic more flexible (except heat, but then again if you use heat on plastic your going to make the plastic change properties). I'm sorry, but I just don't see your thinking on this. I'm not trying to flame you or be a smart as@, but again, grease does not make plastic flex or bend any easier. It's impossible.
Why would you use a grease pencil anywhere near a CA hinge? Glue does not stick to grease! Also, grease does not make plastic flex (a CA hinge is a form of plastic that is coated with material that will make the CA glue adhere to itself and wood). Grease is used on metal, not plastic. There's nothing that will make plastic more flexible (except heat, but then again if you use heat on plastic your going to make the plastic change properties). I'm sorry, but I just don't see your thinking on this. I'm not trying to flame you or be a smart as@, but again, grease does not make plastic flex or bend any easier. It's impossible.
I used them on my first build of this plane, even used a grease pencil to keep em flexing
10-11-2003, 08:57 AM
#5338
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Las Vegas,
NV
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
You use the grease pencil or Crayola to draw the center line. This is done for two purposes. 1, to make sure that the hinge is centered between the two surfaces and 2, to prevent the CA from wicking all the way through the entire hinge and harden. With the grease pencil, you get a hinge line that stays flexible. BUT, as far as the CA hinges go, they're crap for this size plane. Go ahead and use them if your're a novice pilot and plan for this plane to go in during the first couple of flights. Not a problem. But, if you plan on having this plane for a couple of years, then upgrade the hinges. My first Patty, almost a year old with 262 flights had the rudder and elevator surface CA hinges go within the first 100 flights. Then I just changed out the ailerons just because I knew they would go too. Guess what, several of them were split too when I did change them. Save the aggravation and just change them out NOW! If you guys read through the posts, I dissected my first Patty after the fatal crash, and posted pictures, to see what these hinges were really going into. Stay right at the provided slots because that's where they're reinforced on the wing side. There's no blocking or anything on the control surfaces themselves, you're just gluing into the leading edge of each surface. I had a picture or two of what's there for you guys to look at. Given the material that's there, even though I put in the 3/16 Robart Point Hinges, I would definitely go with the pin hinges the next go round. I took 1/2" square balsa, 1" long and cut 1/2" square holes and glued the pieces in place. So, everywhere I have a point hinge, it is totally encased by balsa the entire length of each hinge half. Otherwise, only about 1/4 of the hinge would have been glued onto the balsa.
Experience tells me NOT to use the CA Hinges! BUT, it's your plane.
Experience tells me NOT to use the CA Hinges! BUT, it's your plane.
10-11-2003, 11:51 AM
#5339
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lockport,
NY
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
232Cap-Tain:
I understand what your saying about installing the CA hinges with a mark to get the CA hinge straight, but any builder knows to use a pin to find the center of the hinge. They even tell you this in most instruction manuals including the GP Patty Wagstaff Extra instructions. If you use a grease pencil on your CA hinge your asking for it to break. Glue will not stick to grease. You want to get a even flow of CA through out the hinge, even in the middle. The little CA that's in the middle will not make the hinge not flex. In fact glue will not stick to plastic either. So what ever bit of CA is in the middle will break off when the hinge is flexed.
On my 33% and 40% planes, yes I use Robart Super Hinge Points. And there will be certain folks who will debate what glue to use to hold them in, swearing that one glue is better than the other. That's fine, but we don't go around telling these folks they are a novice flier. In fact saying something as pompous as that only strengthens my case. I've even seen some folks use CA hinges on their 33% size planes and up. It's whatever works for them. And longevity has nothing to do with it either. My 'Patty Extra' is over a year old and the CA hinges have not failed.
I understand what your saying about installing the CA hinges with a mark to get the CA hinge straight, but any builder knows to use a pin to find the center of the hinge. They even tell you this in most instruction manuals including the GP Patty Wagstaff Extra instructions. If you use a grease pencil on your CA hinge your asking for it to break. Glue will not stick to grease. You want to get a even flow of CA through out the hinge, even in the middle. The little CA that's in the middle will not make the hinge not flex. In fact glue will not stick to plastic either. So what ever bit of CA is in the middle will break off when the hinge is flexed.
On my 33% and 40% planes, yes I use Robart Super Hinge Points. And there will be certain folks who will debate what glue to use to hold them in, swearing that one glue is better than the other. That's fine, but we don't go around telling these folks they are a novice flier. In fact saying something as pompous as that only strengthens my case. I've even seen some folks use CA hinges on their 33% size planes and up. It's whatever works for them. And longevity has nothing to do with it either. My 'Patty Extra' is over a year old and the CA hinges have not failed.
10-11-2003, 12:13 PM
#5340
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Las Vegas,
NV
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
Pompous--- No.. Experience ---YES... They asked. I gave my opinion. You can give yours. That's what this whole thing is all about. So, give your opinion about your experiences and stay off my case....
10-11-2003, 10:10 PM
#5341
Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cordele,
GA
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
Brison 3.2 and the plane had not been flown aggressively yet. It was going to get the
"wringed out" flight after this one. It had been flown conservatively. The engine box support broke and the firewall, which had been pinned, came out with the whole front of the fuselage.
"wringed out" flight after this one. It had been flown conservatively. The engine box support broke and the firewall, which had been pinned, came out with the whole front of the fuselage.
10-11-2003, 11:43 PM
#5342
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Clinton, MS
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
Ouch...
I have the brison 3.2 also. I am not yet done with my plane, but should I consider strengthening the firewall more than what is in the manual?
I have been planning on using the stock fuel tank, but after reading this thread I have some questions...
Using the 3.2 gas engine.. Could I get 15 minute flight times with a smaller tank than the one supplied with the kit?
I am also going to use a smoke kit and have a 16oz tank for this. Would a 16oz tank be too much/little for a good 5 minutes of smoke?
If anyone could post a picture of their fuel/smoke tank setups I would be very thankful.
-Nate
I have the brison 3.2 also. I am not yet done with my plane, but should I consider strengthening the firewall more than what is in the manual?
I have been planning on using the stock fuel tank, but after reading this thread I have some questions...
Using the 3.2 gas engine.. Could I get 15 minute flight times with a smaller tank than the one supplied with the kit?
I am also going to use a smoke kit and have a 16oz tank for this. Would a 16oz tank be too much/little for a good 5 minutes of smoke?
If anyone could post a picture of their fuel/smoke tank setups I would be very thankful.
-Nate
10-12-2003, 12:14 AM
#5343
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hawthorne, CA
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
So Andy,
With Basil asking the same questions he did two months ago cause he won't read the instructions and people arguing over the use of the CA hinges for the umpteenth time and RCguy making two word replies cause nobody will read back a few pages before posting and he's tired of answering the same questions....why do you say this thread has run itr's course?
Flynt, I'll bet my left wheel nut that you had a couple of real hard landings that loosened the firewall before she broke apart in the air. While this is definatley Patty's weak spot and Andy even cut open the top to beef it up, I don't think they will come apart in the air without a few hard knocks to loosen up the joint. Maybe you did get a defective fuse and the 12 year old Asian kid that built it was having a bad day but my guess is that it dropped a few feet to the ground and landed flat on the wheels once or twice.
With Basil asking the same questions he did two months ago cause he won't read the instructions and people arguing over the use of the CA hinges for the umpteenth time and RCguy making two word replies cause nobody will read back a few pages before posting and he's tired of answering the same questions....why do you say this thread has run itr's course?
Flynt, I'll bet my left wheel nut that you had a couple of real hard landings that loosened the firewall before she broke apart in the air. While this is definatley Patty's weak spot and Andy even cut open the top to beef it up, I don't think they will come apart in the air without a few hard knocks to loosen up the joint. Maybe you did get a defective fuse and the 12 year old Asian kid that built it was having a bad day but my guess is that it dropped a few feet to the ground and landed flat on the wheels once or twice.
10-12-2003, 01:36 AM
#5344
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lake City Fl
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
[>:]BasinBum
You crack me up.
How about this one. Why is there air?
P.S.
Patty goes on skis next week, I smell snow. News at elevin video link!!! Are we having fun yet?
You crack me up.
How about this one. Why is there air?
P.S.
Patty goes on skis next week, I smell snow. News at elevin video link!!! Are we having fun yet?
10-12-2003, 07:05 AM
#5345
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lockport,
NY
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
232Cap-Tain:
Thank you for strengthening my case even more. Any one that has to resort to flaming has no case. And your opinion doesn't have to be so rude as to tell others that they are novices. For all you know they could be TOC champs. So when you give your 'opinion' leave out the crude remarks and no one would be on your case, but that's just my opinion.
Thank you for strengthening my case even more. Any one that has to resort to flaming has no case. And your opinion doesn't have to be so rude as to tell others that they are novices. For all you know they could be TOC champs. So when you give your 'opinion' leave out the crude remarks and no one would be on your case, but that's just my opinion.
10-12-2003, 09:10 AM
#5346
Junior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: weston,
FL
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
what do you think about the new sullivan smoke system ?I want to install one on my Patty and I don't know which one is the best.Thanks for your advise.[sm=confused.gif]
10-12-2003, 10:14 AM
#5347
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
So Andy,
With Basil asking the same questions he did two months ago cause he won't read the instructions and people arguing over the use of the CA hinges for the umpteenth time and RCguy making two word replies cause nobody will read back a few pages before posting and he's tired of answering the same questions....why do you say this thread has run itr's course?
Hi 'Bum,
It looked like nobody was posting for a period of about 20 days or so, I thought it was finally gone and the like you said the same questions popped up and the same arguments etc. etc. etc...
It is one of the reasons I don't come here as often as I used to.
Andy
With Basil asking the same questions he did two months ago cause he won't read the instructions and people arguing over the use of the CA hinges for the umpteenth time and RCguy making two word replies cause nobody will read back a few pages before posting and he's tired of answering the same questions....why do you say this thread has run itr's course?
Hi 'Bum,
It looked like nobody was posting for a period of about 20 days or so, I thought it was finally gone and the like you said the same questions popped up and the same arguments etc. etc. etc...
It is one of the reasons I don't come here as often as I used to.
Andy
10-12-2003, 10:34 AM
#5349
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hawthorne, CA
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
Andy,
I thought everyone in Oklahoma lived in a double wide mobile home or as I like to call them "tornado riders". Your neiborhood looks like something out of a Steven Speilberg movie, very normal. BTW it looks like good flying weather in that picture.
I thought everyone in Oklahoma lived in a double wide mobile home or as I like to call them "tornado riders". Your neiborhood looks like something out of a Steven Speilberg movie, very normal. BTW it looks like good flying weather in that picture.
10-12-2003, 10:49 AM
#5350
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Las Vegas,
NV
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Wagstaff Extra 300
Ok.. Ok.. I wasn't trying to imply that anyone is a novice or an expert. That wasn't in any fashion the point I was trying to make. There was a time when I started flying that I hoped and I mean hoped my flying abilities would give me opportunity to have a plane for more than a few flights without crashing it. based on my flying ablitities and not the integrity of the aircraft I was flying. That's where my novice terminology came from and that's what I meant by it. Most of us were there at one time or another. So I apologize to anyone I offended.
Secondly, the CA hinges. Let me explain. I know people with 30%-40% planes with CA hinges that are just fine. They like them and the CA hinges are doing OK. But, they weren't using the CA hinges, manufactured by Great Planes, that came with the Great Planes Patty Wagstaff Extra 300S. My point being, the CA hinges that came with the Great Planes Patty Wagstaff ARF, installed per their instructions, just didn't last. There are a great many CA manufactures out there. There are just as many installation techniques and there are just as many adhesive suppliers too. You must use the combination that you feel is good for you. It may be your experience that leads you to the decision you make, or, it may be an opinion from another modeler based on their experience. So, there was a question raised about CA hinges. I answered it based on my experience with this plane. I've got almost 340, 15 minute flights on the Pattys that I've had. Countless hours have gone into the maintenance of these planes too. MY EXPERIENCE with the Pattys is that the Great Planes CA hinges are not the best hinges for this plane. That's all the point I was trying to make.
It was said best a few posts ago. This is the umteenth discussion within this thread about the hinges. This is the last post, opinion or comment I will make regarding hinges ever!
Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone in any manner or any fashion.
Secondly, the CA hinges. Let me explain. I know people with 30%-40% planes with CA hinges that are just fine. They like them and the CA hinges are doing OK. But, they weren't using the CA hinges, manufactured by Great Planes, that came with the Great Planes Patty Wagstaff Extra 300S. My point being, the CA hinges that came with the Great Planes Patty Wagstaff ARF, installed per their instructions, just didn't last. There are a great many CA manufactures out there. There are just as many installation techniques and there are just as many adhesive suppliers too. You must use the combination that you feel is good for you. It may be your experience that leads you to the decision you make, or, it may be an opinion from another modeler based on their experience. So, there was a question raised about CA hinges. I answered it based on my experience with this plane. I've got almost 340, 15 minute flights on the Pattys that I've had. Countless hours have gone into the maintenance of these planes too. MY EXPERIENCE with the Pattys is that the Great Planes CA hinges are not the best hinges for this plane. That's all the point I was trying to make.
It was said best a few posts ago. This is the umteenth discussion within this thread about the hinges. This is the last post, opinion or comment I will make regarding hinges ever!
Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone in any manner or any fashion.