LFreas,
How much gasoline do you have through the engine as of now? How does it tach?

Joe

I probably don't have more than a gallon through it. Right
now I have a 16/8 Zinger on it and tacked around 6600.
Pityful............ I will tweek it Sunday with the better muffler
and see what it tacks. I'm still getting the black snot all
over the plane.

Larry

You're going to get those black spots for a little while until the rings seat.

With a 16x8, you should be getting around 7800 - 8000 with that engine. Do you have the newer version with the Falkin ignition and graphite coated sleeve? They would get a little more RPMs.

Stay with it, it's a good engine.

Here's a web site with some information for you.

He also has a link to the Top Models site which has some good tuning information.

http://home.flash.net/~jecramer/mvvs160.htm

Jim!

Jim,
It's the older one with the cylinder ignition. I am trying
the different muffler and props today and see what
happens. I also have a different carb on it. It has a
priming bulb on it with a brass tube coming out close
by. I still don't know for sure how this should be hooked
up. Right now I just have it open. I am having starting
problems.

Larry

Well -- I just weighed my YS 1.20 NC powered FW3D and it's 10.0 lbs. Of course it still needs a muffler, switch, battery, cowling and rudder servo and push rod... I guess I'll be in the 10.5 lb range when complete.

I checked the CG and it's very nose heavy. I put it on the CG machine and hung the uncut cowling from the engine and put the HS645MG servo on the stab and it was still a little nose heavy. I guess my Sullivan tail wires are a lot lighter than the push rod setup it came with... I am hoping that a tail mounted rudder servo, and a battery a few inches behind the wing tube where the pull-pull rudder servo rails are will get the CG about right.

Has any one else tail mounted their rudder servo? There really isn't much room back there given the narrowness of the fuselage and the existing elevator servos. I am thinking of mounting it through the bottom of the fuselage right on top of the rearmost elevator servo. I need to mount it about a 1/4" proud of the bottom of the fuselage to clear the existing elevator servo. This should help the geometry of the push rod clear the tail wires too. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated?

Here's an idea that I saw on the Giantscaleplanes.com web site that I thought was pretty cool.



Pretty neat.

Jim!

Jim, that looks cool. What was it on?

I think it was a 3d Giles.

Go to www.giantscaleplanes.com and select the smallest planes from the list. It is shown there.

Cool looking plane!

Jim!

Flew it again today. Switched to an 18/6 prop and the Bennett
muffler and I got almost 7000rpm. This is on the MVVS 1.6 gas.
Plane flew much better and the motor seems to be getting stronger all the time. What surprised me was how difficult it was
to spin, and I have a lot of throw in it. Won't knife edge worth
a darn either. I'm hoping that's a CG issue. At a safe altitude
I hovered it at full throttle and sliding back slightly. Very limited
vertical you might say. All I was thinking was, power, I need
more power. I will stick with the MVVS and see if it gets
stronger but if it doesn't, it's Moki time! The plane was still a
blast to fly. So easy and has to be the easiest thing to land.

Larry

Those numbers seem low to me.
I am getting the following numbers with the RCS 140.
RCS 140 with 3 gallons of fuel through it (just switched to Amsoil 50:1), and the following props:

APC: 16x8 9100 rpms
APC : 17x6 9000 rpms
Mejzlik: 18x6 8600 rpms

As far as knife edge goes, mine will knife edge very good.
It will not do a knife edge loop though.
What little hovering I can do, the RCS will pull out but slow.

Hi Jim,

That just may be the solution. I means opening up the tail -- again, but putting the servo inside as far back as it will go with an arm sticking out on one side should do the trick nicely. I don't think I'll go with two push rods as in the picture. A 4" 4-40 rod is pretty stiff... I could do a short pull-pull as I have some cable left over from the tail braces and some exta long Dubro super strength arms...

Also, I have a left over servo tray. I just found in the manual that it is supposed to go around one of the elevator servos -- the one that is not recessed into the fuselage a little. It doesn't appear that this is necessary and I already have the servo and linkages mounted. I don't want to push the servo out and mess up the linkage alignment. Did anyone else not use this piece?

No surprise there. The stock muffler is terribly restrictive.

The GSP method of tail mounting the rudder servo isn't going to work. There simply isn't enough room. I guess I'll be putting a couple of oz of lead there instead...

I guess everyone else used that little servo tray when mounting the non-recessed elevator servo...

FYI -- I just saw the World Models ad for the new version of the FW3D in MAN. They have really changed the tail with larger control sufaces and removed the tail bracing... :angry:

In the process of learning to see if the GSP method of mounting the rudder servo would work I discovered the solution to the extra servo tray. Glue it to the inside of the fuselage! Problem solved...

I guess my pull-pull geometry isn't quite right. The non-pulling side goes slack about half way through the rudder's travel...

Well -- mine is almost done. I need to finish the programming and set the CG. The box of little bits in now empty!

I just weighed mine -- 10.8 lbs...

The good news is that not tail mounting the rudder servo was a good thing. The CG is spot on with the rudder servo mounted in the stock location! I put a 5 cell 1100 mah NiCd under the rudder servo and that must have made the difference...

Did anyone else have trouble getting their wings flat against the fuselage? Maybe my wing tube is too long...

this plane calls for a 120 4stroke, and all I have is a TT90s and a Saito 180, so I strapped on the Saito.. the Plane flyies good but at an Idle. Question is, would the TT90 be the better engine of the two?? My plane weighs in at 9lb.

9 lbs even? How did you do that? My plane PARTS weigh over 7 and will grow with assembly and the saito is over 2, not to mention the radio! HOW< HOW HOW???????? I need this info?

Can you tell, I need to know! I'm thinking of selling prior to building cause of the weight!

Please, if you have lightening info, share!!!

thanks

While I'm at it, I've meant to ask this for a while. I've watched this thread since the beginning, and had mine several months, still in the box. Those that have built it, you don't seem real excited. Is this thing 3Ding for you? Harrier, hover, elevators, etc.?

And does anyone think the new tail design is important? Or just looks? (as seen in June MAN)

Thanks

Gordo-plast
If you want to sell it, give me a price.
Thats how much I like mine, I would buy a second one.

Question for JR 8103 users...

I used my Ultra Stick book to program my 8103 to operate the F3D. The Ultra Stick programming instructions assumes one elevator servo, while the F3D requires 2 elevator servos.

I plugged my 2nd elevator servo into aux3 of my receiver and attempted to mix the elevator with the aux3 channel. While it does work I don't get full travel in the up direction with the elevator servo that is plugged into aux3.

I've scratched my head and read my 8103 manaul several times and have not solved the problem.

Any ideas would be appreciated. I could use a servo reverser but I'd much rather use the empty channel on my receiver.

I'm heading to the field to fire up the RCS 1.4 engine to get a few tanks through it. We're going to have mid 60's and 5 to 15mph winds today.

The new tail design appears to increase the area of both the rudder and the elevators. It also appears that they dropped the need for the tail braces... If mine wasn't built I would contact the importer, Airborne Models, and see if I could get just the new elevators. They shouldn't cost too much and have the extra control surface might be good.

As for whether or not the new control surfaces make any difference -- I don't know. There are lots of 3D models, CAPs and Extras, that have similar ratio of fixed to movable tails feathers that the version 1 of the FW3D has. It might just be marketing thing too. If you look at other "3D" models in the mags they all have the extra area on the tips (can't remember the correct term) of the controls, and have a very small fin in relation to the rudder... I think getting the CG right will have more effect on the 3D capability since I'm sure the recommended CG is too far forward...

Sea157

How does it fly? You said once it pulled out of hover slow with the 140, that's one of the things that got me bummed. What 3D does it do well? I'm looking for Elevators, Harriers, etc. and I'm concerned the higher wing loading may have an adverse affect on those manuvers. Any input?

I really wanted this plane, and still want the idea, just wondering if it can live up to the 3D. Basically I already have planes that fly really well, do arobatics, and even hover. But still shy of the goal.

Please, you all convince me to go for it! What does anyone think of a larger 2 stroke, say a Moki 1.35 or 1.80, or even the OS 1.60fx?

And finally, those that have one flying, what do you think would lighten it?

Thanks

I just got mine on 4-16-03 and put it together pretty much like the directions called, dont know what the diff. is between our kits....the weight i give you was w/the saito 180.. I have since put the TT 90 s on it and shed a few more oz. but I couldnt fly todaycause of mucho wind..I am curious to see how it does at hover w/this engine..

rthorne,
Try using programmable mix 5 or 6 instead of programmable mix 3.
I am setting up a UCD 3D with two elevator servos with the second servo plugged into the aux 3 channel on an 8103. I found a little tidbit of info in the manual. It is suggested to use programmable mix 5 or 6 for mixing elevator servos as the trim function is available in the mixed channel on these program mixes only. Set the elevator channel servo up for max throw and then slave the aux 3 channel to it to match throws.
Hope this helps.
James

At what CG will the Version 1 rudder be effective in hover? I am at 5.7" now, and it's not effective.