Cost of assembly
03-08-2007 | 02:03 PM
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From: Houston, TX
Cost of assembly
I'm not sure if this is the right forum or not, but I have a question about building so this looks like the right place.
I have an Excelleron 90 ARF that I need to build. I have all the parts and know exactly what mods I want to do, but with a demanding job, I just have not had time to build it nor do I anticipate having time any time soon. I'm also a VERY slow and relatively new builder which doesn't help. There are a number of retired guys at my field that I would trust to assemble it for me, but I don't know how much is reasonable to pay someone or it that would be cost prohibive. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Alan
I have an Excelleron 90 ARF that I need to build. I have all the parts and know exactly what mods I want to do, but with a demanding job, I just have not had time to build it nor do I anticipate having time any time soon. I'm also a VERY slow and relatively new builder which doesn't help. There are a number of retired guys at my field that I would trust to assemble it for me, but I don't know how much is reasonable to pay someone or it that would be cost prohibive. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Alan
03-08-2007 | 02:25 PM
#2
RE: Cost of assembly
My guess is that each of the retired builder would have different prices in mind.
Just make sure you make it very clear as to what you expect and write it all down and have both of you sign it. For example, you expect "XXX" to be completed, you want this "XXX" modification/addition, you would like to be able to check on the build every 2 weeks or so, the anticipated date of completion is... etc...
Not that you don't trust each other, but just so that there is no confusion as to what was agreed upon. Back in my 'youngun' days a handshake was all that was needed but now it's best to spell everything out in writing,
Just make sure you make it very clear as to what you expect and write it all down and have both of you sign it. For example, you expect "XXX" to be completed, you want this "XXX" modification/addition, you would like to be able to check on the build every 2 weeks or so, the anticipated date of completion is... etc...
Not that you don't trust each other, but just so that there is no confusion as to what was agreed upon. Back in my 'youngun' days a handshake was all that was needed but now it's best to spell everything out in writing,
03-08-2007 | 02:39 PM
#3
RE: Cost of assembly
Only you can answer that question. How much is your time worth to you? I have heard of guys charging from what the kit costs to many times that amount. I would suggest choosing a person from your club; don't play one against another, it shouldn't be a bidding war. You'll end up just offending everyone and wind up doing it yourself anyway. I see that it is an ARF so even with your mods there is only so much to do. Explain exactly what you want done, if your wallet agrees with his figure you have your answer. Having an experienced builder that can produce strong, straight and light vs. a long build on your own - well the answer is in how well it flies when all is said and done. It's all in the perceived value, if you feel it's affordable then it's the right amount.
Best of luck,
Dan
Best of luck,
Dan
03-08-2007 | 06:54 PM
#4
My Feedback: (221)
RE: Cost of assembly
Maybe I can help. I do a lot of this.
Just about any ARF is worth $150 bucks plus parts to assemble, detail (tighten and seal covering, add glue where needed, beef up things like landing gear and wing mounts, fuel proof, graphics if any, etc), install landing gear (more for retracts) radio gear, fuel system, and engine, cut in cowl and install, along with all the control devises. This would be for up to a 90 size. You already know about how long it takes to do all this.
I charge more for larger planes. Also, Any mods or extras like cockpit detail are extra.
From $150 up to $300 and even more for giants, for just ARFs, depending on the size and type. I don't cut corners, I use the correct glue in all the correct places, and I am neat and clean about it. They always look as good as they can, I'm told.
Kits are another story.
Just about any ARF is worth $150 bucks plus parts to assemble, detail (tighten and seal covering, add glue where needed, beef up things like landing gear and wing mounts, fuel proof, graphics if any, etc), install landing gear (more for retracts) radio gear, fuel system, and engine, cut in cowl and install, along with all the control devises. This would be for up to a 90 size. You already know about how long it takes to do all this.
I charge more for larger planes. Also, Any mods or extras like cockpit detail are extra.
From $150 up to $300 and even more for giants, for just ARFs, depending on the size and type. I don't cut corners, I use the correct glue in all the correct places, and I am neat and clean about it. They always look as good as they can, I'm told.
Kits are another story.
03-09-2007 | 07:17 AM
#5
RE: Cost of assembly
My question is (and I appologize for being sarcastic)
If you don't have time to assemble an ARF (20 hours or so and a very educational experience)
Where are you going to find time to fly it?
If you don't have time to assemble an ARF (20 hours or so and a very educational experience)
Where are you going to find time to fly it?
03-09-2007 | 10:08 AM
#6
RE: Cost of assembly
If you don't have time to assemble an ARF (20 hours or so and a very educational experience)
Where are you going to find time to fly it?
Where are you going to find time to fly it?
If you are building stock then its an easy build...get off rcu and git er dun!!! then u can come back and tell everyone how beautiful she flyes
03-09-2007 | 10:27 AM
#7
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Cost of assembly
Alan,
I think the problem is people tend to think in terms of time in large chunks. As in I don't have the 8 hours of time the box says it will take to assemble this plane. Instead build in 15 or 30 minute intervals and before you know it the plane is done. This is the same for kits when people say they don't have the time. Make some. Use 5 minute periods if needed. Get a work area keep it organized and you will be amazed at how much can be accomplished. I find it very relaxing - after all you are under no time frame other than what you've imposed upon yourself.
John
I think the problem is people tend to think in terms of time in large chunks. As in I don't have the 8 hours of time the box says it will take to assemble this plane. Instead build in 15 or 30 minute intervals and before you know it the plane is done. This is the same for kits when people say they don't have the time. Make some. Use 5 minute periods if needed. Get a work area keep it organized and you will be amazed at how much can be accomplished. I find it very relaxing - after all you are under no time frame other than what you've imposed upon yourself.
John
03-09-2007 | 10:32 AM
#8
RE: Cost of assembly
This is going to sound sarcastic as well (and don't expect an apology), but as Mr Pettit asked, where will you find the time to fly it, and how often? Lots of us are old geezers, with demanding jobs, and we still find the time to putz around building a model. I normally expect to take at least a year in doing so, but the results are worth the effort. Why not spend 10 or 15 minutes each day, and you might be surprised at how soon you will be ready to fly it. Personally I would not take any pride in one that someone else had assembled. You can't imagine the feeling in actually flying something that you put together yourself, otherwise just buy pre-built models from your LHS, and go fly.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
03-09-2007 | 10:39 AM
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From: Houston, TX
RE: Cost of assembly
Fair question. In the limited time I have (Director at HP, Director of a large civic group, lead a weekly parenting class, 2 young kids, flying 2-3 days/wk. etc), I'd prefer to spend it flying than building. While I'm not rich by any means, I have more funds than time. Would I pay $150 for 40 hours (I'm a very slow builder) with my kids? You bet. It's all about setting priorities - and everyone has to set their own based on what's important to them.
03-09-2007 | 10:52 AM
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From: BONAIRE,
GA
RE: Cost of assembly
abuckner,
Why don't you take the time you plan on allocating for flying and use it for learning about the hobby by assemblying the model? Your ownership gratification will be far superior than paying for a "turn-key" plane.
I hear the same excuse all the time about how "I don't time" or "My job doesn't leave me time", and a whole lot of other excuses to not assemble. Putting an ARF together is not hard and goes together easier and quicker than you might think. Give it a try. It'll do three things for you. 1 = Increased pride in your plane. 2 = Learned skills to help with repairs when needed. 3 = Better appreciation for the hobby.
I wish you good flying regardless of how you get in the air.
Why don't you take the time you plan on allocating for flying and use it for learning about the hobby by assemblying the model? Your ownership gratification will be far superior than paying for a "turn-key" plane.
I hear the same excuse all the time about how "I don't time" or "My job doesn't leave me time", and a whole lot of other excuses to not assemble. Putting an ARF together is not hard and goes together easier and quicker than you might think. Give it a try. It'll do three things for you. 1 = Increased pride in your plane. 2 = Learned skills to help with repairs when needed. 3 = Better appreciation for the hobby.
I wish you good flying regardless of how you get in the air.
03-09-2007 | 12:09 PM
#11
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RE: Cost of assembly
I have been building flying models since I was about 10. I am now 53 and still enjoy the challenges. I even enjoy taking wrecks that others would trash and making them look better than new.
But, I also enjoy doing this for others. My time and more importantly, my many years of experiance is worth something, so I don't do it for free. But I do think that us older guys can and should be willing to enchorage others in the hobby any way we can.
For those newer guys with time, patience, mechanical aptitude, and a little knowledge of eletronics (my first radio was a Heathkit), space with ventalation, tools, and a forgiving significant other, all they need is good advise, building tips, and support, all I am happy to give free of charge. For the rest, who still love the hobby and enjoy flying, but don't have all or part of the afore mentioned, I for one, will be happy to supply, safe, professionally well built or assembled, good looking, model aircraft for them to enjoy, and be proud and pleased to keep them flying.
Don't forget that many of the 'famous' flyers you read about, don't do their own building, or repairs. They concentrate on flying. Nothing to be ashamed of here. I enchourage everyone in model aviation to learn all they can about flight in general and to keep learning and expanding thier skills for their own enjoyment, and pride of accomplishment, but I wouldn't look down on someone who would rather fly than build.
Guys, send me your stuff. I will build it, fix it, assemble it, and then, you try and fly the wings off it.
BTW, I fly also. Everything from my Picco Z to 102" aerobats. [8D]
But, I also enjoy doing this for others. My time and more importantly, my many years of experiance is worth something, so I don't do it for free. But I do think that us older guys can and should be willing to enchorage others in the hobby any way we can.
For those newer guys with time, patience, mechanical aptitude, and a little knowledge of eletronics (my first radio was a Heathkit), space with ventalation, tools, and a forgiving significant other, all they need is good advise, building tips, and support, all I am happy to give free of charge. For the rest, who still love the hobby and enjoy flying, but don't have all or part of the afore mentioned, I for one, will be happy to supply, safe, professionally well built or assembled, good looking, model aircraft for them to enjoy, and be proud and pleased to keep them flying.
Don't forget that many of the 'famous' flyers you read about, don't do their own building, or repairs. They concentrate on flying. Nothing to be ashamed of here. I enchourage everyone in model aviation to learn all they can about flight in general and to keep learning and expanding thier skills for their own enjoyment, and pride of accomplishment, but I wouldn't look down on someone who would rather fly than build.
Guys, send me your stuff. I will build it, fix it, assemble it, and then, you try and fly the wings off it.
BTW, I fly also. Everything from my Picco Z to 102" aerobats. [8D]
ORIGINAL: abuckner
Fair question. In the limited time I have (Director at HP, Director of a large civic group, lead a weekly parenting class, 2 young kids, flying 2-3 days/wk. etc), I'd prefer to spend it flying than building. While I'm not rich by any means, I have more funds than time. Would I pay $150 for 40 hours (I'm a very slow builder) with my kids? You bet. It's all about setting priorities - and everyone has to set their own based on what's important to them.
Fair question. In the limited time I have (Director at HP, Director of a large civic group, lead a weekly parenting class, 2 young kids, flying 2-3 days/wk. etc), I'd prefer to spend it flying than building. While I'm not rich by any means, I have more funds than time. Would I pay $150 for 40 hours (I'm a very slow builder) with my kids? You bet. It's all about setting priorities - and everyone has to set their own based on what's important to them.
03-09-2007 | 02:37 PM
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From: Houston, TX
RE: Cost of assembly
Thanks for the advice, guys. One day, I will shift my focus to becoming a good builder. Today, however, I'm focusing on becoming a good flyer with what little time I have. Traditionally, you had to learn to build first and then fly. I've heard the same story over and over how someone spend months building a plane only to crash it the first day. Many of these are no longer in the hobby. With RTFs and ARFs, we now have more options for new flyers like me. My philosphy, after observing the hobbiests for about a year, is that I want to learn to fly really well first so I don't have to "learn the hard way" - by crashing my hard work before their time.
I began with an electric 3 channel RTF. I know it's heresy, but it got me hooked on flying which never would have happened if I had to build one first. Then I built a foam ARF aileron trainer. Then I bought a used balsa stick plane with glow engine (sounding more traditional now). Now I'm graduating to an introductory pattern plane. My goal this year is to place (if not win) a Sportsman pattern contest. Why? Because that forces you to fly well. Interestingly enough, half the guys at my field that have been flying for 20-40 years can't fly the basic pattern. In fact, I beat half of them in a contest last year and I had only soloed 6 weeks earlier - and I had the only non-pattern plane out there! But they are great builders... I'm learning to build as I maintain, repair, and upgrade my planes. That makes it easy to swallow - just one new thing to learn at a time. Remember, my father isn't teaching me to do this - its just me and advice from other flyers.
Yes, this is totally backwards from the traditional way, but it seems to make a lot of sense. We all learned to drive a car before fixing them, right? And driving them well is more important, right? Once you get good at driving cars, then you can think about tinkering. Why not do that with model airplanes?
Besides, flying is my "release" and enjoyment. Isn't that the purpose of a hobby anyway?
I began with an electric 3 channel RTF. I know it's heresy, but it got me hooked on flying which never would have happened if I had to build one first. Then I built a foam ARF aileron trainer. Then I bought a used balsa stick plane with glow engine (sounding more traditional now). Now I'm graduating to an introductory pattern plane. My goal this year is to place (if not win) a Sportsman pattern contest. Why? Because that forces you to fly well. Interestingly enough, half the guys at my field that have been flying for 20-40 years can't fly the basic pattern. In fact, I beat half of them in a contest last year and I had only soloed 6 weeks earlier - and I had the only non-pattern plane out there! But they are great builders... I'm learning to build as I maintain, repair, and upgrade my planes. That makes it easy to swallow - just one new thing to learn at a time. Remember, my father isn't teaching me to do this - its just me and advice from other flyers.
Yes, this is totally backwards from the traditional way, but it seems to make a lot of sense. We all learned to drive a car before fixing them, right? And driving them well is more important, right? Once you get good at driving cars, then you can think about tinkering. Why not do that with model airplanes?
Besides, flying is my "release" and enjoyment. Isn't that the purpose of a hobby anyway?
03-09-2007 | 03:57 PM
#13
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Cost of assembly
Alan unfortunitly , many people will simply not understand your situation based on there own lives and what they want to hear and say to you , so as opposed to giving you a speech - I did truely -----listen to your post and live your life , so I suggest you do the following .
1)contact a good hobby shop in your area ask them for some guys that want some cash for an ARF assemble
this will save you the $75 in shipping a large crate out of state .
2)If that does not work visit a local field ask around RC guys are good and will help
3)Try the ARF section as well as the builders section on rcu .
I do assmeble my own arfs and still build a few kits while manageing an unbelivalble schedule , the onlt way I can do this is that I have a great building area where I can leave everything out and work on it when I can steal some time .
You certainly sound like you have your priorities correct for this time in your life so try to take the steps I suggested and you may find a good rc buddy that needs the cash .
Good luck
Lou
1)contact a good hobby shop in your area ask them for some guys that want some cash for an ARF assemble
this will save you the $75 in shipping a large crate out of state .
2)If that does not work visit a local field ask around RC guys are good and will help
3)Try the ARF section as well as the builders section on rcu .
I do assmeble my own arfs and still build a few kits while manageing an unbelivalble schedule , the onlt way I can do this is that I have a great building area where I can leave everything out and work on it when I can steal some time .
You certainly sound like you have your priorities correct for this time in your life so try to take the steps I suggested and you may find a good rc buddy that needs the cash .
Good luck
Lou
03-09-2007 | 03:57 PM
#14
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RE: Cost of assembly
ORIGINAL: abuckner
Thanks for the advice, guys. One day, I will shift my focus to becoming a good builder. Today, however, I'm focusing on becoming a good flyer with what little time I have. Traditionally, you had to learn to build first and then fly. I've heard the same story over and over how someone spend months building a plane only to crash it the first day. Many of these are no longer in the hobby. With RTFs and ARFs, we now have more options for new flyers like me. My philosphy, after observing the hobbiests for about a year, is that I want to learn to fly really well first so I don't have to "learn the hard way" - by crashing my hard work before their time.
I began with an electric 3 channel RTF. I know it's heresy, but it got me hooked on flying which never would have happened if I had to build one first. Then I built a foam ARF aileron trainer. Then I bought a used balsa stick plane with glow engine (sounding more traditional now). Now I'm graduating to an introductory pattern plane. My goal this year is to place (if not win) a Sportsman pattern contest. Why? Because that forces you to fly well. Interestingly enough, half the guys at my field that have been flying for 20-40 years can't fly the basic pattern. In fact, I beat half of them in a contest last year and I had only soloed 6 weeks earlier - and I had the only non-pattern plane out there! But they are great builders... I'm learning to build as I maintain, repair, and upgrade my planes. That makes it easy to swallow - just one new thing to learn at a time. Remember, my father isn't teaching me to do this - its just me and advice from other flyers.
Yes, this is totally backwards from the traditional way, but it seems to make a lot of sense. We all learned to drive a car before fixing them, right? And driving them well is more important, right? Once you get good at driving cars, then you can think about tinkering. Why not do that with model airplanes?
Besides, flying is my "release" and enjoyment. Isn't that the purpose of a hobby anyway?
Thanks for the advice, guys. One day, I will shift my focus to becoming a good builder. Today, however, I'm focusing on becoming a good flyer with what little time I have. Traditionally, you had to learn to build first and then fly. I've heard the same story over and over how someone spend months building a plane only to crash it the first day. Many of these are no longer in the hobby. With RTFs and ARFs, we now have more options for new flyers like me. My philosphy, after observing the hobbiests for about a year, is that I want to learn to fly really well first so I don't have to "learn the hard way" - by crashing my hard work before their time.
I began with an electric 3 channel RTF. I know it's heresy, but it got me hooked on flying which never would have happened if I had to build one first. Then I built a foam ARF aileron trainer. Then I bought a used balsa stick plane with glow engine (sounding more traditional now). Now I'm graduating to an introductory pattern plane. My goal this year is to place (if not win) a Sportsman pattern contest. Why? Because that forces you to fly well. Interestingly enough, half the guys at my field that have been flying for 20-40 years can't fly the basic pattern. In fact, I beat half of them in a contest last year and I had only soloed 6 weeks earlier - and I had the only non-pattern plane out there! But they are great builders... I'm learning to build as I maintain, repair, and upgrade my planes. That makes it easy to swallow - just one new thing to learn at a time. Remember, my father isn't teaching me to do this - its just me and advice from other flyers.
Yes, this is totally backwards from the traditional way, but it seems to make a lot of sense. We all learned to drive a car before fixing them, right? And driving them well is more important, right? Once you get good at driving cars, then you can think about tinkering. Why not do that with model airplanes?
Besides, flying is my "release" and enjoyment. Isn't that the purpose of a hobby anyway?
-------------
I would use the strategy of putting the job of assembling the ARF out to bid.
Those interested would have to agree to do things your way - or not do them at all, i.e., do not accept the job if they are not willing to comply with your specifications, for whatever reason.
Make it very clear that you will provide all of the materials needed and that you require the return of any left over materials that you paid for. I once got screwed out of several rolls of Monokote, which were replaced with some funky Black Baron covering of allegedly the same colors. Never again.
Be specific on the types of linkages that you want/need. Do not leave this open for interpretation by the assembler, or you may be sorry. I had to sell a model that I paid to have constructed because there was no simple/practical way to straighten out the elevator and rudder linkages. The builder's argument was that he did what was specified on the plans (Goldberg Ultimate Bipe - nuff said).
It is your business whether you wish to build or assemble a model to fly. Other's opinions are irrelevant in this regard.
I've had times where I've worked full time and played music part time. Between work, band practice and gigging, I was lucky to squeeze in a couple hours a week to fly. Of course, the fact that I had been designing and building my own models from scratch the previous fifteen years made no difference. All the complainers saw was the last ARF I brought to the field. Fortunately, playing in a band thickens your skin very quickly. There's always someone complaining about something you are doing, so you get used to it. <G>
No offense intended to anyone, but some folks loathe and despise building and would rather pay someone else to do it. I'm just as glad to have them join the club I am in at the moment as I am to have an old salt that builds everything himself. Different types of folks have different skills to contribute, all of which come in handy at one time or another.
Ed Cregger
03-09-2007 | 04:58 PM
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From: Go Riders Go!!!!!!!, CANADA
RE: Cost of assembly
Ya i have to agree i am getting a little sick of people that are giving those of us that want to spend our time flying not building!!!! crap citing cliche's like "you make time for these things" MY priorities are as straight as can be and that means family first everything else second so i feel no guilt at all that i will by an ARF for flying now and when the kids are grown and gone i will work on my building skills. I love reading build threads and have built a couple planes of my own however i don't need anyone telling me what my priorities should be for my hobby. Everyone's situation is different and someone inferring that they know that we could be using our time better to make time for building is a little insulting to me! The idea for building 15-30 minutes at a time is a great one and can be done provided you have a space that you can feel safe leaving your plane in without the kids, cats, and everything else getting into it.
Flyboy76
Flyboy76
03-09-2007 | 06:23 PM
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From: Willis,
TX
RE: Cost of assembly
Hi pm me, I'm building a couple of planes for other people right now, and could squeeze you in. Plus I live in Conroe, so you don't have to ship it anywhere.
03-10-2007 | 05:50 AM
#19
RE: Cost of assembly
ORIGINAL: Flyboy76
Ya i have to agree i am getting a little sick of people that are giving those of us that want to spend our time flying not building!!!! crap citing cliche's like "you make time for these things" MY priorities are as straight as can be and that means family first everything else second so i feel no guilt at all that i will by an ARF for flying now and when the kids are grown and gone i will work on my building skills. I love reading build threads and have built a couple planes of my own however i don't need anyone telling me what my priorities should be for my hobby. Everyone's situation is different and someone inferring that they know that we could be using our time better to make time for building is a little insulting to me! The idea for building 15-30 minutes at a time is a great one and can be done provided you have a space that you can feel safe leaving your plane in without the kids, cats, and everything else getting into it.
Flyboy76
Ya i have to agree i am getting a little sick of people that are giving those of us that want to spend our time flying not building!!!! crap citing cliche's like "you make time for these things" MY priorities are as straight as can be and that means family first everything else second so i feel no guilt at all that i will by an ARF for flying now and when the kids are grown and gone i will work on my building skills. I love reading build threads and have built a couple planes of my own however i don't need anyone telling me what my priorities should be for my hobby. Everyone's situation is different and someone inferring that they know that we could be using our time better to make time for building is a little insulting to me! The idea for building 15-30 minutes at a time is a great one and can be done provided you have a space that you can feel safe leaving your plane in without the kids, cats, and everything else getting into it.
Flyboy76
Bill, AMA 4720
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03-10-2007 | 10:28 AM
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From: Go Riders Go!!!!!!!, CANADA
RE: Cost of assembly
Stickbuilder, i was a little wound up yesterday (not having the best day was an understatement!) so i apologize for coming across like a jerk. I envy your position in being able to devote the time you want to building. I have built a couple of planes def. not anything as complex as the ones you currently build and can appreciate that great feeling of watching your own creation take flight for the first time. Part of my frustration with people saying "you make time" for these things is i have tried to juggle my time commitments around to reasonably make it work for building and haven't had any luck so far. Once my children are older and hanging around dad is no longer cool (hope that day never comes) then i will have time for building and believe me i have already scheduled it in. I have a set of plans for a Fairchild PT-26 Cornell which is the plane my grandpa flew in WWII and will scratch build it once my skills are up to par. You keep building i'll keep flying (for now) and hopefully soon i will be building as much as i fly because i truly enjoy it.
Flyboy76
Geoff Bedard
Flyboy76
Geoff Bedard
03-10-2007 | 01:04 PM
#21
RE: Cost of assembly
Oh, that day will come allright, and much sooner than you would like. The 22nd, we have to fly our to L.A., and give the last daughter away in marriage. Seems like yeaterday that she was crawling. Enjoy them while it lasts.
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
03-10-2007 | 01:05 PM
#22
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Cost of assembly
I am just glad that the original post was answered , I guess I get concerned when questions are asked about a persons life or time with zero regard to the question at hand , that intern leaves me to believe that the post is not about helping just a slow burning build up to my way or the high way .
Back on subject , there is also another opportunity for ARFs that are ready to fly and that is club and RCU sales .
Many great builders and arfs planes are turn key on RCU and at club swat meets , so good luck in your search
Back on subject , there is also another opportunity for ARFs that are ready to fly and that is club and RCU sales .
Many great builders and arfs planes are turn key on RCU and at club swat meets , so good luck in your search
