I hate to beat a dead horse but I feel that I would share this with everyone and let you be the judge.

I am posting some pictures that are taken directly from the instruction manuals so that you can better see the diferences.


This is the way the wing is mounted in the kit version. Notice that the wing is completely surrounded by fuse structure.


This is the way it is mounted in the ARF version. ONly contacting half the fuse, and the lower half of the fuse structure is cut away and replace by a cover plate that is screwed in place, providing no support for the wing at all. Also notice how minimal the structure of the fuse is.


This shows that the kit includes frame doubler for added support all the way to the engine mount.


This shows that the ARF includes NO doublers at all, even though the design of the ARF needs it the most.

Very informative post....

Did I miss it? Or did you neglect to mention which aircraft this is?

For the most part, at least with trainers, a lot of ARF's are not available as kits.

However, where a plane IS available in both formats, it looks like its worthwhile inspecting the ARF to see if you think it is built well enough, or whether its worth going for the kit.

Yeah, IMO the GP Dazzler ARF is a poorly designed AND poorly constructed model to say the least, definitely not up to GP standards. It needs a lot of reinforcing and there is barely room for everything that has to be stuffed in. Anyone putting one of these together should put a layer of 1/8" light ply all around the inside of the fuel tank compartment and cut away the covering (wallpaper) where the wing's leading edge contacts the front of the wing saddle so epoxy can be applied to that area.

Looks like the GP Dazzler from the limited photos....

Did the Great Planes Dazzler come apart?
I know that Most ARF's these days are built better than Kits.
And especially better than a person could do only being in the hobby five years.

They are the one thing that has boosted this Hobby more than anything Else and it would be shame full to say bad about this.

There is over 400 ARF's today and even more kits.
Give em a chance

Interesting about the wing attachment. I am sure that the wing, when combined with the fuse, combines to add considerable strength. Taking my Midwest Extra for example, the fuse is quite thin where the wing attaches, but adding the wing with its four bolts makes me feel very comfortable throwing it around the sky (couple vids on my website).

That particular ARF does look like it has very fragile construction, though.

I too have built one of an arf Dazzler, and was not happy at all with the quality of the construction.
It was also VEEERRRRRYYY heavy, and I sold it after only one flight.
Not one of the world's best arf models!

Andy E

Yes, It broke apart on the first hard landing.

Not fo what I have seen witht he ARF's that I have had. the first plane I ever built was an Extra 300, and I can tell you right now, it was one solid well built plane. It was a GP kit and it was excellent. It took way more of a beating than the dazzler ever did and never gave me any trouble.

Now, I am going to asume that you are not talking about me here, and yes, some people just do not have what it takes to build correctly, but I for one can build an excellent plane. In fact I have the kit version of the Dazzler on its way. Thanks go to the great customer support people at Great planes. And i can tell you right now once I am finished building it there will be no further troubles like I had with the arf.

I am not postingthis as a flame against GP, nor am I mad at them, in fact it is just the opposite. I contacted them and we exchanged information. they are taking care of me in a way that demonstrated their commitment to their customers. And the hope is that this will lead to a superior product in the future. I just want to share this information with others so that we can all learn what to look for in our planes. After all that is what these forums are for.

I'm sorry about your trouble and I wan't referring to you.
It's too bad that there are still some ARF's out there with some bugs.
Although, I have had 12 different ARF's in my (five years) of flying and
have not had even the slightest problem.
Thank you for not re-lating it just to ARF's. The Dazzler must really have some
week spots...
Is there any other ARF's that "WE" should look out for?
The ARF's that I have really liked that I've had no trouble with is the-
-GP Space Walker, H9 PT-19, Global P-47, Global PT-19,-
Kangke Cap232\60!!!! , and the Global Kwick Fly.
These ARF's are some of the best ARF's you can ever buy..!
Thanks for the info on the Dazzler. I'll try and stay away from that plane.

You can always pick examples to bolster claims either way. Pick a bad kit, and even cheapo Vmar ARFs look great in comparison.

*THE* most important benefit with ARFs, besides faster time to RTF, is that the first 90% of construction is of known and constant quality. I am sure an expert builder with time to burn can build better, but most ARFs today are built better and straighter than the average kit builder can muster.

As for the fuse strength issue above. The kit way of fitting wing to fuse looks like a pain in the neck - certainly very unconventional. Don't know how the ARF version wing mounts to the fuse, but more than likely the wing is used as a stress member so the fuse section near the wing doesn't need to be quite as strong.

Many motorcycles use the engine as a stress member as part of the chassis. Look at Ducatis with the Desmo twins, or the Yamaha Viragos. If you take the engines out of these bikes, the frames don't look like much. It's actually a very efficient design.

I have owned equal numbers of kits and ARFs. I for one enjoy building. The ARFs that I have had, all had problems of one nature or the other. True some of the kits I have built have had deficiencies too. For me the difference is in the peace of mind that I get knowing exactly what has gone into the plane. When I am finished building, I have exact knowledge of the planes construction. This is handy info when Murphy's law or gravity takes over. I just feel like you take a chance everytime you buy an ARF. Maybe it will be quality and maybe not. I dont think it is enough to assume that just because someone here on this forum got a great plane(not GREAT PLANES) from a particular manufacturer, then you will too. If you build it, then quality of build is less of an issue. Having said that... does anyone have a 60 size WM P40 ARF they would part with for cheap?