Slow and Steady

WC, I know the feeling; two weeks ago I flew my Extreme Flight 88" Yak into a tree on final approach - total loss of plane. Engine and parts luckily were all fine. What a shock - it was my first 50cc size plane and only four weeks and 20 flights before crash. I believe the change in scale tricked me into believing it was in front of the tree when it was actually behind. An $850 loss plus countless hours on the build.

Incidentally, I have used only ball links for the last few years, which removes the slop, in addition to a stronger link. It was recommended by someone with alot more experience and has become my standard on all planes. They can readily by used at both ends of a short rod set up by using all thread, sleeved with a carbon tube. Now I just need to come up with a method for avoiding trees.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Can you elaborate on what brand/type/size ball links and also control arms, etc., you use or recommend? I recently ordered some heavier hardware... thinking about upgrading my Revolver 70 hardware and maybe my other planes as needed. I have some larger scale stuff and even though I do not fly hard, I do at some times fly sort of recklessly on purpose.

I have never had issues with any of my planes to date (other than one bad servo which I caught on the ground), but I do feel the time is coming because I do put them through the mill at times and if it avoids a rebuild then it may well be worth the investment dollars.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

We have some guys that check their planes continuously. I think an initial check is best and if you notice any oddities while flying you should land and check the plane over with a find tooth comb. I found a bad servo that way and I think that saved me a plane.

A buddy of mine was flying and I noticed his plane did not sound right while flying. He did not notice it. I told him to just bring it in and look it over for safety's sake. Sure enough, he found an aileron servo that was about half stripped out. Just abnormal sounds mean something has changed.

wjcalhoun

Don
I do check every link first time to the field each day, although not before every flight. My R70 went down on her first flight of the day. The only thing I can think is that I had my EPA set to 140%, so the servo arm travelled in a wide arc. I have had to replace the fuel tubing because of nicks twice. It did not look like the tubing interfered with the clevis/servo arm joint, but perhaps it did. In retrospect, that was the red flag that the linkage was suboptimal. Ball links, bolts, nylon lock nuts, and blue locktite now for me...

S&S - i have soldered on threaded couplers to the ends of plain 2-56 rod as well (with CF tube stiffening) rather than all-thread; either works. I was able to save the expensive stuff - servos, engine, receiver, and battery - as well. The fuselage airframe itself is pretty much destroyed back to the wing tube.

I have used both GP and Dubro ball links. Someone with more expertise might know of some subtle differences, but I find them pretty much interchangable.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

When does all the mods on the Rev 70 become overkill? There are some on this thread that I bet are flying their Revs pretty hard and have not done all the mods. If I update all my links, rods, ball ends, etc. and I still have some point of possible failure like a connector for instance, just how much is gained in all this?

The reason I am asking is that I see guys fly planes year after year and I mean ring the planes out quite often with just the standard stuff and they never have to "beef up" their planes. It does make you wonder how some can get by with it and others have issues. Maybe it really has more to do with proper setup and keeping constant checks on components.

Any input from those more knowledgeable flyers out there?

SpinnerRow

Ive never used the standard plastic clevis' that come with most of these planes. Some people do and have good luck with them but once bitten twice shy for me.

The major change I did was put a 4-40 rod on the rudder. I knew I was going to put as much rudder in it as I could get (almost touching the elevator halves each way) and when I would grab the rudder and move the stick, I could feel the slop in the small rod when it was pushing the rudder. I didn't notice much when it was pulling it. So I changed to a 4-40 for the extra stiffness on the slop on the pushing side of the rudder servo was much improved. Everything else got 2-56 rods with steel ends and a Z-bend into the servo arm.

The rest of what I did was standard ARF stuff - more glue on the joints and tri-stock in high stress areas.

On my revovler, I took the canopy off after the first flight to have a look around but I usually check my planes when I get it home before I fly it again.

wjcalhoun

Hi Spinner
Mine were metal clevises, but still...
I used a pull-pull cable system for the same reason you used heavier rod - too much slop in a long 2-56 pushrod, and like you had rudder throw nearly to the elevator.

To Luchnia's point, I think many of us, including me, probably DO push the airframe beyond its design parameters, and so we DO need to beef up high stress components. I had a 4* 60 that flew entirely stock, nylon gear digital servos, standard push rods, etc, for 100+ sport flights without a problem until I lost her to dumb thumbs. I agree that when we push the envelope, it increases stress, chance of failure, and consequences of failures (whether pilot or gear). My view is that if I push the envelope, I am duty bound to be sure the plane is safe. I don't want property damage or injury. Hence, I try to build strong and secure.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Luchnia - I think part of owning and operating these ARF planes, for me, is to discover and correct failure points. And, as this thread shows, we've found quite a few areas in this plane that either needed or benefited from being beefed up. This is especially true for those of us who overpower our planes and fly them hard. Is this latest idea of ball-links overkill? It's cheap, and easy to do, and it would have saved WJC's plane, so, I think it's worth considering. I'm sure you can fly the Rev 70 stock, with the Great Planes' recommended power, but that would be a much less exciting flying experience than what I'm getting with my setup.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

There is only one other guy that I know that flies at one of the clubs I belong to that has the Rev 70. He has a four stroker on his and he flies it a lot harder than I do. So far, I don't think he has done any mods. I could be wrong though. I plan to check with him as soon as he is back out flying and see if he has done anything this winter.

It would be nice to be able to fly with other Rev owners, but isn't always feasible. All the engine combos and all the other mods are just off the map at times, but over powered planes are a total blast! I do look at other planes and it is amazing how much you can gain from those other setups, especially the strong built pattern ships. One guy that flies pattern planes at our field has hardware that almost looks bullet proof!

I really think that some of the inexpensive mods are very well worth it. As you put it, "it's cheap and easy to do..."

BountyHunter51

I thought that I'd post some photos of my Saito 125 after the install for those who might be interested. I'll have the cowling off at least one more time and will try to get some photos of that if anyone is curious.
I could have simply routed the muffler outside the cowling with minimal hassel but I think that it looks 'cleaner' with the muffler routed inside. More cutting than I would have liked, but certainly not as bad as it could have been...LOL. The 90* adapter is from RC Specialties and is the same setup that I had used in a former Funtana 100X.
Cheers! BH

capt1597

first class job! really nice and thanks for sharing, capt

Sbach342Guy

Ah, gotta love how the Revolver looks when it's all shiny and new!

Slow and Steady

I went to ball links along time ago to get rid of the slop associated with plastic clevises. They are not expensive and most aftermarket products can be recycled onto new planes. I think ball links add about $5 to the cost of a plane. The extra care provides for a superior flight experience. Another thing I do is use a lazer level to align the horizontal stabilizer. It takes almost no time and the plane requires less trim and results in less drag. I get alot of compliments on the smooth flights I achieve with these simple upgrades. It takes alittle more time and thought, but after six years I don't crash much and since the planes tend to last along time, I think the extra effort is worth it. No one on this thread should feel compelled to follow anyone's ideas; afterall it is just a pass time that is meant to provide alot of pleasure, with minimal frustration. If you have a propensity to crash, like most of us do in the early years, it is a hard sell to put to much effort into the build.

iflywhenican

My Feedback: (1)

I totally agree with your statement here S&S as to no one should should feel compelled to do what everyone else does.
A lot of us flyers tend to "race to get airborne" without ever checking anything before flight and that will soon tell on you in ways that you don't want to experience. We all should follow what the "full scale" pilots do and give a check at least to controls and control surfaces before each flight. That will reduce a lot of frustration and add a lot to safety.
Suggestion: Instead of using silicone fuel tubing on clevises, use small wire ties or heavy duty heat shrink to secure them. Silicone fuel tubing will split under stress very quickly.

Slow and Steady

I occassionally us Dubro safety clevises, I think sullivan also carries their own design, which include snap type clips. Never has one failed and they are cheep. As far as checking before flight; several weeks ago I took off without my aileron leads plugged in. I was able to land with elevator and rudder, but I now make a positive check before the first flight that all surfaces are funtional. I also regularly check the linkages after the last flight as I am cleaning off the castor residue.

SpinnerRow

Can someone post a link to the ball links they are using?

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

I've used Dubro Heavy Duty 4-40 ball links. Here they are on Tower: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXFPW8&P=ML

Ttaylor63

My Feedback: (16)

Also got a Revolver & recently put a DLE 20 on it. I'am using an APC 16x6 prop. I want to up the size of the prop but not really sure what to go with. The 16x6 really makes the plane haul butt in air. So any suggestions out there on what prop to go with??????

wjcalhoun

There is an entire thread on this engine.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_98...tm.htm#9863953

Looks to me like you are underpropped.

alex_scratch_built

Hey guys,

Just got mine for Christmas and I finally got to open the box today. I too will run it with the DLE 20!
A few comments on what I found initially with this kit. It is very nice but quality control is lacking:

1- The covering had many air bubbles. However I am more so concerned with the covering on the wings that shows many ripples(wrinkles). Back in the day, when I was buildding my own kits, the only way to get ripples like that was by ironing them on. I am just not sure they will ever come out even with an iron and heat gun?

2- My ailerons seemed to not follow the wing very well.

3- Huge gap from the canopy to the fuse behind it (1/8 - 3/16)

4- One of the ailerons is not in the center of the slot so it rubs hard enough on the tip that I absolutely need to re-hinge in the picture, you see the aileron does not fall back in a normal position because it isrubbingtoo hard

I do expect to see some small defects on an airplane that size for that price but I can cope with most problems I have seen so far.

The only one thatreallykills me is the wrinkles. I don't know how that will turn out??

alex_scratch_built

2 more pics too big to fit into 1 reply, sorry.

alex_scratch_built

and again for the last time

Slow and Steady

I think I had similar wrinkles, but they were removed with an iron that I wrapped in a cotton cloth, the remnant of an old shirt. The canopy looks terrible - I would be calling Great Planes if it could not be easily corrected. While my ailerons were not perfect, they are functional. However, the elevators were not set right - one was hinged above the center of the horizontal stab and the other was below. I ended up rehinging them. You may find it interesting that I am currently building a 50 cc Yak from one of the premier brands, which has alignment issues with the pin hinges. Quality control seems to be a big issue for more than one Chinese manufacturer. Pretty sad. I would normally consider this quality a second! Surely not first quality - more like junk! On the other side, Tower has stood behind any necessary corrections in the past. Although some times the replacement parts have the same issues as the original.

Slow and Steady

Looking at your photos of the aileron hinge line and the canopy - can't believe they pass that level of quality off to a customer and could expect return business!

Wonder if they have the same quality control issues with there new 50cc Yak 55 and Pitts 12M?

Gordie M

Guys,

Started my R70 today - I waited until I had finished the Sig cub kit I was building before getting into the R70. (you can go to Kit Building forum if you are interested - search for Gordie's Sig Cub- I bashed it into a L4 grasshopper with greenhouse cabin, it's about as far removed from a revolver as you can get )

On the R70 I'm going to use 2oz glass cloth and finishing resin to reinforce high stress areas - mainly in strips at the corners of parts - like where the engine box extends out from the front fuse former and the firewall on the front of the engine box.

I'm thinkingI coulduse the glass cloth to reinforce from the fuse front former down and over the landing gear plate like some guys did at the start of this threadbut they usedan alum angle. Do you think this will be enough? My kit has factory fitted triangle stock on the front and back of the gear plate reinforcing it to the formers so there is not much flat area left on the inside to use epoxy - but I'd do that as well - in additiontoo the proposedcloth on the outside.

Because I'm puttingthe elevator servos on the rear and using a Sullivan tailwheel (needs ply reinforcement) I'm going to be cutting into the lower fuse covering quite a bit anyway, one more patch at the front for the gear plate isn't really an issue - although I suspect I will recover the fuse sides and bottom from the red pinstripe down to tidy up.

Thoughts?

cheers,

Gordie.