RE: BME Edge?
 

Hi Coony; I would definitly pin the firewall to side of box, at least four pins to each side. What I have been doing to all my planes, is using L shaped alum and mounting it to the inside of the box. Attaching it with two bolts on side and front, rather then using tri-stock. Your local hardware will handle difference sizes of L shape alum. When I pin the firewall and mount my alum--never had any trouble at all. The weight issue using the alum is nota-nothing-comprendee. O.K. I hope this helps;)

RE: BME Edge?
 

getting closer, just need to get the chargers for the 2400 6v Mah Battery, and a prop.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks i will look into getting some of those to brace up the firewall i dont want that puppy coming out ;).


Chad

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hey Dago Red; Now don"t forget to get those flight reports:eek: Good looking plane.[&:]

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hey Coony I think a little braceing won't hurt. My spinner is rubbing the bottom of the cowl, so there is flexing their.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I just got my Edge, planning to out an MVVS 58 on it :).

The wing retention method used on this model seems a little cheesy to me. I don't want to have to fip the thing over at the field to install the wings. Has anyone tried hardening the root rib of each wing and installing a retention bolt through the fuse?

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks for the info. I already pinned it but i think i will just add a few braces from the first former to the firewall also , wont add over an ounce so it sure cant hurt.

RE: BME Edge?
 

My wings came out about 1/16 inch on the third fly, the bolt wear the lite plywood out. I drill out the liteply and epoxy a piece dowel in it's place, i than drill through the dowel and wing tube and made thread on both. I also has 2 nylon bolts on each side of the wings no problem now agout 30 flights.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks for that info Y.N.C. i was wondering about the wing attachment. I had a Fun world 3D and the wing attatchment was the same and it flat out stunk. The wings were never tight to the fuse.

I will convert mine to the bolt threw threw the fuse to hold wings on.


Chad

RE: BME Edge?
 

WHAHOOO,

I got to fly mine today!!

This plane is all that!!! Mine came out at 16lbs 2oz dry. I think that is a really respectable wieght.

It has absolutley no bad habits that i could find. Lands like a trainer, it actually floated so long that i had to go around a few times just because it wouldnt quit flying.

I would compare the feeling of this plane to my Hangar9 sukhoi only much better. Very smooth very stable !!!! It pulls to the belly very slightly in knife edge with no coupling to airlerons needed (kewl) !! Point rolls were very good i think i could fly this plane in imac and be very competive with a 35% plane!!!

Now for 3D i dont think you can get any better than this plane for the price. It hovers very easily stable and not wagging and swagging and chasing the tail. ( It locks in real good). The airlerons are very effective in a hover i think i could get it to torque roll to the right :).

Blenders are awsome it flat spins very flat. I basically can not find anything thing this plane does not do well. Parchutes were nice and never had any tendacy of snapping out!!

I could go on and on with report's on this plane but bottom line is it does it ALL !!! It just flies like it is suppost too. The DA 50 is a great motor for it. Keep everything as light as you can cause this plane can get heavy quick on you. If you let it get heavy it is not going to preform like it should.

If your looking for an excellent plane this is it !! I give it an 8 out of 10 mainly the only 2 things i dont like is the covering and the wing retention. The covering i will deal with because it is not that bad ( just dont put a hot iron on it ). The wing retention can be changed to bolt on from the inside of the fuse without much trouble.

There is no way this plane will ever wieght in at 15.5lbs with 50cc engine with out drilling some holes in the plywood construction of the plane , but this baby is built well and should take a little lick and keep ticking if needed.

I hope this helps for the guys that are thinking about buying this plane. You wont be disatisfied !!


Chad

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hey lets go guys want to hear more on the new BME-EDGE

RE: BME Edge?
 

im getting closer, i need to cut the spinner, mount the muffler, and go fly!!!

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hi Dago Red; I am suprised that were not hearing more about the new BME EDGE. The reports that I am hearing are all pretty good, except the covering which is so-so and the engine box which by the reports it needs to be beef up. How did yours work out. Could you show some pics of your engine,and engine box on how you set up yours. Appreciate.

RE: BME Edge?
 

EVERBODY; Lets hear more on the new BME EDGE thanks.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hey, where are all those BME Edge owners? Don't just keep flying, spend some time here and tell us something.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I have some video of this plane... but nowhere to host it. If anybody wants to host it let me know!

RE: BME Edge?
 

Contact Max at BME, he should host it for you. If he won't let me know.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Bryant 330L's video of him flying the BME Edge 540 is now online at BME Aircraft.

you can check it out on the videos page here: [link=http://www.bmeaircraft.com/html/videos.html]BME Aircraft Videos[/link]

If the link doesn't work try tis one: http://www.bmeaircraft.com/html/videos.html


VERY nice flying Eric!

RE: BME Edge?
 

Lookin good Eric. So are you really enjoying that Edge?:D

RE: BME Edge?
 

Is there any one planning on going for the iMAC contest with this baby? Getting some practice?
How does it go with all the sequence?....

RE: BME Edge?
 

Just got mine. Looks great to me. Hope to be able to start assembly soon.

Have to come up with the $$ for a DA-50. Brison is much cheaper, but everyone seems to think the DA is a better choice for that plane.

Got Hitec 5645's for ail/elev and a 5995 for the rudder. Should I get a digital for the throttle?

RE: BME Edge?
 

The Brison is a great motor. I have one in mine and it is great. I would not spend the extra for a DA.... just my opinion.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Dirtypool,

Since you are using digitals everywhere else... yes... for economy get the 5745HB for the throttle... good standard digital servo..

For the best thing you can do for your plane? The 5245MG... almost half the weight and FAST... .12 seconds... you'd be surprised at the throttle response you'll achieve just by having a better/faster servo...

As far as DA or Brison... well... I've not run a Brison. I have heard some pretty rough things about the Revolution... a real shaker.... And their other 52 is a little heavier than the DA.

Without doubt, the DA will put out more thrust...

You are putting a lot of money in this plane... what's an extra $100 to know you have the best power to weight ratio available and the best service and support if you ever wouild need it?

Most all the engines are pretty good and reliable... but the DA truly is a cut above the rest.

-David

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hello all. I am gathering material for either the BME Edge or the Wild Hare Edge. Question, which one might be easier to balance my Moki 2.1 on. Also any body with experience in the Moki's can tell me how close it would be in pulling power compared to the 50cc engines. I know that the specs say that it is 4.95 HP Vs 5.0 for the DA 50.

BME is offering 10% off on the BME ARF for the holiday so I was hoping to make up my mind soon.

RE: BME Edge?
 

BRW Troy Built is offering $10 off wing tubes till Christmas (reg 54.95) and they also have stab tubes for the Wild Hare for 14.95 saves .9 of an oz.

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/WingTubes.htm

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks for your input. I took the plunge and ordered a DA-50-R.

Now, does anyone know which muffler will fit? Will a cannister fit? Slimline w/smoke (in case I want to add smoke later), Bisson? Stock DA muffler? Will they all fit or is one better than another?

Thanks again.

Rob

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hey all - I will be putting up a new build post on this plane shortly..I am almost done....

Here is how it is equipped:


DA50 R
Mejzlik 22x8 prop (break in) going to Bolly 22x10 after break in
Mejzlik 3.5" CF spinner
JR 8611 rudder
Hitec 5945MGs on elevators, ailerons
Hitech 5245MG mini digi on throttle
MLP 1.5" servo arms
MLP 3" dual arm (rudder)
DuBro HD ball links
RCATS relay ignition cut off
Duralite fail safe regulator / switches (6V RX, 4.8V IGN)
Fromeco 2200 Mah Li-Ion (3)
Sullivan Skylite 3" wheels
DuBro HD GS surface horns
DuBro HD pull-pull setup
Arts Hobby CF pushrods (elevators)
H9 Titanium Prolinks (ailerons)
24 oz sullivan flex tank
Troybuilt 1.25" CF wing tube, 36" long
Stock Aluminum Gear (we shall see, I might be replacing that too)
Ohio Superstar Medium Tailwheel (stock one was a rube goldberg special)
Custom fitted servo extensions (no spaghetti for me)


Plane is "flying" together. I would have had it done in two days save for China Kote. I guess I should have paid more attention to the type of covering used. I hate this stuff. I did not like the stock scheme... looked too "Chinese" to me. I stripped most of the trim down to the white, red and black, then added my accents for a true scale paint scheme. Because the covering is so cheap, I ended up spending a whole day and one quart of paint thinner getting all the old covering glue and base color off. Seems it was stuck on so well that it would not just peel off like it Ultracote or Monokote does.... figures.. most ARFs I have liked the scheme on the covering falls off... this one I wanted to strip and it would not come off at all without harsh chemicals...

It does look 1000% better now though and was well worth the effort. I ended up recovering the tops of all wings and elevators and I left the fuse and rudder alone, as well as the bottom of wings and elevators. I also blacked out the belly of the fuse and carried that to the bottom of the cowl. There are those who will argue it looks like a typical edge scheme and remarkably similar to my 31% extra.... but I like this design.. it is well seen in the air and everyone comments on how clean it looks...

Anyway, keep your eyes open for my post in the next few days!!
DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

where are you guys putting you throttle and choke servos. If someone using the bme 50 could post a picture that would help. Thanks for help

RE: BME Edge?
 

I ordered a DA-50 for it but I dont know what exhaust options are available. Slimline, stock, Bisson, or a can or tuned pipe? Leaning towards Slimline or Bisson wraparound pitts.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Desertpig -

Did you say you were having balancing issues with yours on another thread?

RE: BME Edge?
 

Which pull-pull setup should I get?

Dubro makes one for .91 and up, SWB, Airwild?

Thanks.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Well I got mine, put it together in a few days and have flown it... here are my comments.

Home runs: looks, after recovering very nice looking plane and solid too.

Hits: Good construction, well laid out, quality materials, very cool that hinge points were already done.

Strike outs: "Chinakote" covering, WAY heavier than advertised, hard to balance, hardware, wheels and tail wheel are junk

Overall - I really like the plane because it looks very nice and I think it is going to fly as it should once I get the balance issues worked out. It flies well, but whomever said they got their plane to 16 pounds had to be on something when they weighed it. NO WAY.

BUYER BEWARE... if you are expecting this plane to be 1.5 pounds lighter than a WH you will be disappointed. I weigh all my planes on a 3 point strain gauge, not a fish scale, so my weights are accurate to a few grams.

I like to build my planes very light and will do some radical things like cutting and buy some pricey CF stuff if needed to get it to where I think it needs to be. There is no reason this plane should not have been able to get under 16 pounds with the equipment I had selected, but that is a PIPE DREAM due to the tail group being excessively heavy. The layout of this plane is such that everything lies ahead of the CG, so removing weight by using items like CF gear, spinner, etc or not using redundant batteries, etc only shifts the CG further AFT.

My plane came in at very disappointing 17.5 pounds and balances at 6.0 inches (a full 1 inch aft of the max 5" in the manual). You will see in the pics below that everything is as far forward as possible and the tank is on the CG.

Honestly, the best CG point appears to be 5.1" for 33% MAC, and others here have said 5.25" works best. That means 6.6 oz more noseweight to shift the CG. I can pick up 2.5oz by using the Bolly Prop and 2 oz more by ditching the CF spinner for a cheezy aluminum one like the Dave Brown Ultimate. Even doing that I will still have to add 2.5 oz of lead... BS

Total weight = 18.1 pounds. STINKS.

I am considering taking a hole saw to the elevator and rudder surfaces and drill out some of the tail gear plate to get some weight out of the tail.. I have done this on Cardens in the past and have had great luck but I don't know how well built these surfaces are or how much I will weaken them. I also really don't want to recover the tail ... AGAIN.

Flight: So far I have two flights - the maiden and one more test flight. With the CG at 6" (just forward of the wing tube) it definitely flies tail heavy. Inverted it pulls up, vertical bank the tail falls. It drops a wing on slow approaches, but is predictable like my CAP so I just land it a little hot.

The engine is new, so I did not get too crazy. TR's were simple, as one would expect them to be with a tail heavy plane. I have flown many planes with CG further back than suggested and had no issues. Unfortunately, with the weight of this plane at 17.5# and the CG at 6 inches, it is touchy enough that I won't fly again until I fix it. I can fly it like this, but who knows what it would do in a dead stick, wind gust, etc. It should fly better and that is that.

The controls were touchy enough and landings hairy enough to make it a no-fly situation until I get the CG right.

I am afraid the CG needs to be between 5 and 5.30 max and at 6.0 is too tail heavy.

I will post any new news / flight info when I finally figure out how I am going to fix it. in the mean time .. here are some pics!

DP

This group shows the engine box.
Notice the fiberglass and screws. I also tied the firewall to the next former using 8-32 all thread, a proven very strong method to keep firewall
from flexing. I do this on all ARFs.

All batteries, regs and switches are as far forward as possible and I fabricated a lightweight choke bellcrank to save the weight of a choke servo.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Here is another set... radio layout, fuel tank, and pull pull setup.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Here is the stripped covering, with some of the recover in process...

RE: BME Edge?
 

Here is the final, finished version as flown.... love the way it looks now if I can only get the CG up a little without piling on more weight..


DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

desertpig - Thanks for posting up those great shots. I can see a couple of things you can do to move the weight forward so you don't need to add weight.
1) The flight batts can go further ahead, they look nice sitting there all velcroed in and all, but they don't need to be sitting that far back.
2) Why is the throttle servo that far back in the fuse? I would think a shorter, stiffer linkage would be more desirable that a long rod in a Sullivan sleeve.
3) I know the rudder pull-pull is done, but that servo can probably be moved ahead 2 inches. It looks like your mounting rails are made to be moved?

My setup is going to be very similar. I was thinking of ditching that tailwheel assy right from the get go.
Don't know when mine will arrive, but I hope mine can be finished at no more than 17lbs tops. I will be dissappointed if it gets heavier.

BTW, nice job on the re-finishing scheme.

Spar

RE: BME Edge?
 

Desert Pig,

First off... excellent work, meticulaous building and a great modded scheme... looks like it was designed that way.

Looking at your pics I do, however, see where some weight savings and balance issues could be adjusted.

Unfortunately it may be too late for you to do some orf them (or too much work).

I ALWAY assume a plane is going to be tailheavy and build accordingly. It's always much easier to balance a plane that's been built this way.

Here are some other helpful ideas...

Space the engine out as far as possible... this will mean moving the side cowl mount locations in front of the former and will rest the top of the cowl just lipping over that former and onto the hatch maybe 1/16"... this will move the engine forward 1/2" Might fudge an extra 1/8" of space between the cowl and spinner too. You can still do this... a little work... just add 1/2" blocks (or whatever you can squeeze) under the standoffs... then if you extend the cowl mount blocks and drill your existing cowl hoels into them you won't have to redrill hole in the cowl... just cover the 4 holes in the fuse where it used to attach.

I will be putting my ignition in front of the firewall along with the battery and regulator. This not only will help with their wieght forward of CG, but allow you to place other things close to the front of the plane as well. Might even build a "tounge plate" to push them out another couple inches. you can easily do this.

I won't be using redundant batteries, switches on a plane this size. You've added 1/4 lb. there.

Place the tank back up in the nose... instead of on CG.

And here's the single most tailweight savings... place the rudder servo where the throttle servo is... throttle servo more forward... perhaps just in front of the F1.

Can't see if that's a CF tailwheel, but that's what I'm going to use... definitely the stock tailwheel is too heavy (but not junk). That stock wheels I LOVE infact I ordered several pairs at several sizes due to their extreme lightweight... VERY dense foam that will seem to resist flattening but SEVERAL oz less than Dubro Treaded LiteWheels. If you used Dubro or Sullivan you added 2 oz plus...


To be honest... I can easily see where you might have picked up an extra pound in building and caused some nose weight to be needed. And an ARF can easily vary by 1/4 in wood density and glue/paint variance.

As I said, I'm not knocking your work... it's excellent... but you have made concessions with moving the tank back, using dual batteries/switches, replacing the tires, etc...

I had problems balancing the WH Edge too and that was with a 3/4 lb smoke system a good bit ahead of CG...

I think maybe both manufacturers moved the wing back 1"-1.5" in a future revision, there would be much less concern...

RE: BME Edge?
 

Maudib, Sparhawk - thanks for the feedback.... I am with you - I always build assuming the plane would be tail heavy, but I was not prepared for how tail heavy this one was going to be....
This is in fact the first plane I have ever had problems balancing and I have built / set up a lot of planes. My guess is someone was real heavy on the glue in the tail.

I agree the engine could have been spaced out a little more, but the pathetic manual did not include a firewall - to- thrust plate measurement so I set it for its max and adjusted the cowl accordingly. I could have moved the engine maybe 3/8 further forward using block spacers, but that increases vibration on the DA. It would be like adding 4 oz of weight to the moment though. I looked on all the posts before I set mine, but did not find the suggested 6 7/8 until AFTER I was done... [:@]

I don't like ignition modules in the cowl, there is a lot of heat and vibration with little airflow at the firewall, but I might have no choice here. I also like to keep my flight electronics further away from my ignition than it is now, but again, in this plane I am already within 4 inches, moving the ignition to the firewall should help.

The throttle servo is a 1oz mega mini, I had no room to move it forward due to the batteries in the way... it will make no diff where it is as long as its forward of CG. Moving it 2" more forward would only change the moment weight by 0.25 oz.. .not worth the trouble.

On all my planes I put the tank over CG, moving it forward will throw off trims during flight as the fuel load changes.. not good for running IMAC patterns.. in fact there is nothing worse than starting off with a nose heavy plane that handles better as fuel load gets lighter... but that's me. I actually have not seen any gas planes built with the tanks forward... I just remember the pain of the glow days nose heavy on take off..balanced on landing....

I used an Ohio Superstar medium tailwheel (2oz total wt) the Graphtech small tailwheel is 2.2oz, so its actually heavier and is not as strong

I know there is a debate about redundant batteries, etc. I chose Li-Ion, and one 2200 mah pack won't supply enough current to 5 hi torque digitals under a large 3D load. To satisfy my load requirements I needed a 4400 Mah Li-Ion or go to NiCad or NiMH , so I chose 2 redundant packs instead of 1 larger pack. My total weight with two packs is about the same as one 2400 Mah Ni-Mh and one superswitch.


About the wheels... I agree with you that the LOOKED very nice and were lightweight. I have several people here on RCU PM me letting me know they fall apart rather quickly especially if you run them on pavement or gravel (both plentiful here in the desert).. I had a wheel break on me once on a 40% bird... almost lost it on landing when it ground looped.. somehow I was able to give power and rudder to steer it away from the fence .. won't be taking that chance again. I never use the wheels that come with the planes.. I have had issues 100% of the time that I have...


I have the bird on the bench now. Since everything is velcro'd its easy to move things around... I doubt I will have to move too much to get it where it needs to be... shouldn't have to do it... but ...
I'll let you know how I made out..

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Ooopsss you've been misinformed....

the Graphtec tailwheel is .9 oz their 40% tailwheel is 2.2 oz.... :)

So you'd save an oz in the tail and what... maybe 3 or 4 in the nose? A quarter lb there alone...

The wheel get ate up on concrete huh? Wish these guys would be a bit more open instead of sending people PM's... I fly off grass and it's a non-issue even if they do... for me the are the sweetest tires available on the planet... :) Heck... for the weght savings, it would be worth buying a half dozen pair to replace when they get worn.

I agree with the tank on CG, BUT it's rarely designed that way by the manufacturer, and in this instance would put another 1 or more oz in the nose.

You didn't mention the rudder servo placement... again... likely to help alot on balance. I'm going to try and mount mine in front of the wing tube... perhaps as far foward as where your throttle servo... letting help the CG not hurt. Pushing the batteries to the side and vertical would open a lot of room for location the servos.

Between this and the tailwheel I think you could get your CG up to where you wanted it... especially if you move the ignition/battery to the front of the firewall...


Whle I know most of my suggestions were minor... they all add up... an oz here and an oz here add up quickly, especailly when electives like an extra 2 oz from batteries/switches, 2 oz in heavier wheels, 1/2 oz in the firewall reinforcement, 1/2 oz in the choke bellcrank setup.

Elections like placing the ignition & battery behind the firewall, tank on cg and it's related extra weight to get it mounted there, etc.... all play as to whether a plane that's hard to balance becomes impossible or not.

There's not that many 50x cc plabes out there just yet, and so far we're finding a good bit of them to be tailheavy... scale and the level of building strength needed to go from glow to gas may be making it harder.

So my thoughts are offered to help reduce weight and balance more conservatively.

I don't think think the BME is a poorly designed aircraft due to it's balance issues... nor do I believe it's impossible to balance. but it is good that you have shared these pics and your choices so that others can be aware of just how critical placement of engine & equipment and assembly of this particular airframe is in reference to acheiving balance.

I'm still hoping for 16 lbs... maybe that's crazy... I really wanted the 15.5 but even I can't seem to see it getting there... we'll see... but not til spring...

RE: BME Edge?
 

I'm in the process of moving stuff around now... I moved the ignition to the firewall, doubled up the batteries and mounted them on the other side inside firewall. Ditched some of the hardware and velcro.

BTW.. The graphtech website is a bit overly optimistic.... Yes, the gear leaf weighs .9 oz, but when you add the springs, screws and wheel, the weight is up to 1.88 oz.. That is exactly the same weight as the Ohio Superstar medium set.

The graphtech small gear set is very fragile, I broke it on my 1/4 scale cap and I am a very gentle lander. I won't use it again. On a plane this size I think it looks too small as well. Actually, the gear that came with it is about right, but it weighs 3.2 oz... way too heavy that far back..

The Graphtech medium gear is just right for this plane, has the correct scale, and with the supplied wheel and two springs weighs in at 2.66 oz I was going to switch the CF gear off my CA 31% because I thought it would be lighter.. its not.. so I stuck with the Ohio gear.. its very strong for its size.


Anyway, the advertised weights on a lot of stuff is not where it usually comes in at.. and I am used to that... its why I try to jam everything forward if possible. The layout of this plane does not make it real easy once the tank is in place unless, like you said mount the tank forward of CG.. I just can't bring myself to do that... I could go to a smaller tank too, that might give me some more room, but I like having the extra gas as sometimes I repeat patterns and lose track of time during practice...


It looks like I am going to be on a CG of 5.25" at 17.4 pounds ... respectable but no 3D monster.
I am hoping the Aerotech Velox I have on order will prove a lighter build.


I am sure this plane can be built lighter than I have built it. If I had it to do over here is what I would do:


1> Space engine off the firewall 7 inches or just enough to leave a 1/16" overlap over the second former, mount all ignition components on the firewall
2> Can the DuBro HD hardware.. its too heavy.. I'd go to Rocket City horns instead (nelson) I am sure that would be good for at least 1.5 ounce in the tail all that DuBro stuff is 10-32
3> Mount the rudder pull-pull as far forward as possible... like almost under the wing tube!
4> Mount a 20 oz squatty square tank, so that it will fit in front of the wing tube and still be very close to being on CG
5> Get out the dremel and get rid of some of wood around the butt end of the tail. It is way dense and thick... no need for all the wood there as it only holds the tail gear
6> Hole Saw several lightening holes in the elevators and rudder and recover
7> Install a CF wing tube and main gear, this alone should shave 7 oz +


I have already done the following:
CF Spinner
MenzS lightweight wood prop
Mini Digi on throttle
CF pushrods w/titanium ends on elevators
UltraLite main gear wheels
Ohio Superstar Lightweight tail gear assy

Unfortunately, without the first 7 items done, my efforts were wasted. It would be too much time and materials to rework the rudder pull pull and tank areas, so I have decided to settle on a 17.4 pound airplane that balances with everything jammed foward...

DP