RE: BME Edge?
 

hey, anyone knowq what the heck that clear sticker in the sticker bag is for? ts made outta the same stuff, theres just nothing printed on it.. any ideas on what it is?

RE: BME Edge?
 

repair tape? Hinge seal tape? I have no idea.

RE: BME Edge?
 

you mean the stuff that you use to transfer the decal on to the plane.

RE: BME Edge?
 

That's it... you use it to transfer the vinyl graphics onto the plane!! The decals don't have two sides like normal vinyl ones you order do.. Personally, I like this method better.. I found it very easy to transfer the decals and get a very clean, accurate line on them...

Maudib - I flew a friend's Patty not long ago... you are dead on.. on a DA50 it flies heavy to me. I thought a much better fit would be a MOKI 2.1. Once a person has flown a "light" plane with truly outstanding wing loading, it is very easy to pick out the heavy ones... and HATE them. I have not settled once for a heavy flying plane since. I like the way the Patty looks, but it does not fly anything like my CA Extra, nor even this BME edge.

The edge does not fly heavy at all..

It goes with my point that it does not usually pay to convert a glow plane to gas... usually.. the Kankge CAP 120 I put a 3W 24 on was awesome!



DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Flew the Edge yesterday and this AM.... ahh what a nice flying plane. I ended up reducing the throws to 15* on low, 25* on med and 45* on high rates.
I also reset (reduced) the trim rate from 4 to 1 on this model.. the surfaces are so well set up that only one tick makes a diff on trim.. !


I had 4 perfect flights so far, smoothe as glass. Working on the flight trim now.. Engine thrust could be another full degree, but I got rid of the left pull by mixing a throttle curve / rudder mix..

I flew the first 4 diagrams of the IMAC basic pattern today and the plane flew perfectly... it was my thumbs that could be a little better trimmed!


Flipped on high rates... holy S*IT does this thing do NICE snaps!! I did 3 upline snaps and a tail slide into a tail spin... FUN!!


I think I am going to like this plane... now if I can just get this DA50 to idle down on not quit on me at low throttle settings..

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

DP - glad to hear that despite its extra weight, it flies very well.

Still waiting for the courier to drop by the house with mine. I ordered the Teal scheme and according to Max, it is part of the first batch. I guess the Teal is not as popular as the Red and White ones. I plan on changing out the stab and wing tube for CF ones. Has the sizes been finalized for these yet as I would like to order them in. DP - how long would you say your standoffs are? I was thinking of picking up a set from aerografix, but not sure what length I will need. Thoughts? I expect my DA to arrive this week as well.

Spar

RE: BME Edge?
 

Quit it DP...

You're putting me back on the fence!

Glad you're enjoying it...

RE: BME Edge?
 

Sparhawk... I used the DA Standoffs. The ideal ones will space your thrust plate right at distance that the cowl lines up with very little overlap on the middle former. The only way you will get this measurement is to get your plane and mount the firewall as they differ slightly plane-to-plane based on how you mount your firewall.

I did not want to mess with other standoffs or wood blocks / engine box, etc.. so I used the DA standoffs.. They are too short and that complicated my balance problems.
I should have spaced my engine out another 3/4" that would have been like adding 6 oz to the nose. The more you can get that engine out there the better!

Mount your firewall (with thrust or without) and measure the length from 1/8" in front of cowl to firewall with the cowl taped in place to provide 1/16" coverage of middle former.. subtract the engine length and you have the standoff dimensions.

This is the best way to do it. You can use shim blocks under the DA supplied standoffs like a lot of people do, but if you do you will get a lot more vibration from the engine. I think AG will make a set of standoffs in a day or two.. so why not get custom ones that fit! Wish I had!

I mounted my firewall with zero thrust. I then countersunk the firewall under the right hand standoffs and added washers under the left hand standoffs to achieve the thrust line. I did this as it makes the thrust line adjustable. Putting 3* in the firewall makes it non adjustable and if you are tempted to use washers later to increase / reduce the thrust it can lead to crankcase fractures if not done right... (i.e beveling the standoffs or countersinking the wood)..

Hindsight being what it is however, 3* is just about right so if you can do it accurately, put 3* in from the start!

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks for the tips DP. I think my plan is to build the 3* offset right into the firewall so that my mounts are all equal. I think the best thing is to put the engine out as far forward as possible to aid in getting that tail up. CF tubes, and a new tail wheel assy, and LG, will go a long way to keep the weight down.

Spar

RE: BME Edge?
 

Ok how are you guys getting this plane to balance? I have the battery & ignition and throttle servo all in front of the firewall. The fuel tank is all the way forward. Rudder servo is in front of the wing tube. As is, the plane balances at 7 inches along the fuse side. I have not placed the receiver battery and was wondering if I can put it up front also to help with the balance, or would this cause me radio interference? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!! As is, this plane will never fly!
Completely Frustrated!! Troy

RE: BME Edge?
 

So, I need some opinions.

Dubro has the heavy duty control horns for a .90 size plane using 6-32 bolts or the big heavy duty stuff using 8-32 bolts.

Should I use the larger stuff on the elevators and ailerons? or will 6-32 be ok?

RE: BME Edge?
 

Torqmaster... have you replaced the stock tailwheel? It's quite heavy and can save you several oz in the nose...

Also yes... put the battery in the nose. MANY manufactureres are now doing this as the new ignitions are shielded and quite clean.

Obviously a thorough range test should be performed with any new aircraft... and if you are using a PCM receiver... swap it for a PPM for the range test.



Dirtypool... 6/32 horns are not enough for this plane. If a person wanted the lightest system, I'd look at Chip Hyde's aluminum ball bearing horns... they come with special clevises that fit the ball bearings and there is no slop. The mounting plates on the BME surfaces are perfect for these horns.

They are VERY lightweight... 4 of them in the tail only weigh 19 grams (.67 oz)... and that's including the clevises. The Dubro HD horns (2 elevator & one pull-pull) weigh 67 grams (2.36 oz).

With them you'd save 1.75 oz in the tail and a whole slewful in the nose... maybe 6-8oz...

You can get them from Central Hobbies... http://www.centralhobbies.com/contro...s/chmch-1.html


When I first used these on my Double Vision (they came stock with it) I was a little leary... installation is like this:

1) Determine where the horn will sit and drill pilot holes for the screws
2) Cut the covering out in a triangle with the pilot holes being the points
3) Place a drop of thick CA on the bare wood
4) Install the servo horn with 3 supplied screws (they are short... but long enough to go through the mounting plate


I have subjected my DV to some VERY rad maneuvers... not a hint of these horns failing or coming loose.

http://www.centralhobbies.com/images/cnthrn-1.jpg

RE: BME Edge?
 

Great. Thanks.

I will try them.

How is the Chip Hyde Cap-X? I see it is on sale for $299 and says it can take up to a 50cc engine. weight 10-12 lbs. Seems very low. I was thinking about getting one for a US 41 that I have. It seems a 50cc would be too much for it.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I never flew mine... have it up for local sale... too many other projects.

Based on everyone's reports and the video Chip did... it's really sweet with a lot less snapping tendencies than other CAPs...

The 50 would be too much really... that 41? Too heavy and not enough power... A lightweight 40 or even a good 35 would be nice for it. I was even going to put a Roto 25 on mine.. but I'd have to get a CF tuned pipe to have a tad over 1:1 thrust... just not gonna happen...

But the Roto 35... hmmmm that might be the ticket... or a ZDZ 40... Of course lots of guys are using Saito 1.80's, O.S. 1.60 fx, YS 1.60... etc

RE: BME Edge?
 

so the CH control horns would be fine with dubro heavy duty ball links on the other side? Dubro seems to have 2 different ball links in the Heavy Duty category. Go with the biggest ones?

Servo extensions: make my own? twisted or straight wire? 20 ga?

I also see that there are switches with regulators. I will use a 5 cell nimh pack and I see regulators ranging from 5.2, 5.4, 5.7, 6volts. They say digitals should get less than 6 but they are rated at 6. My rudder servo will go to 7.2v.

Thanks.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Use the Dubro swivel ball links that look like the Hangar 9 ones. Don't use a regulator. 22 ga extensions are fine, twisted or not doesn't really matter, and making you own is a good idea if you can eliminate multiple connections.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Either Dubro HD ball links are fine. I've used the straight wire HD extensions without troubles... (22 ga I think) Bigger is "better" but also heavier... your call...

I wuold definitely go with the SmartFly 6 volt regulator w/ failsafe switch on the receiver... lightweight and well thougth out.

An MPI HD switch w/charge jack is fine for ignition... (or even a regular switch harness but i liek the easy access to charge)

RE: BME Edge?
 

In my opinion, a regulator on a 5-cell NiMH is a waste of money.

RE: BME Edge?
 

SO true...

It didn't sink in about it being a NiHM... I was thinking about how I was going to set it up.


Unless you are runnign servos that have problems above 6 volt (don't quote me but seems I read that some JR/Futaba servos migh get the jitters on a frashly charged Nimh/Nicad... I know for sure I had to ue one on some standard JR servos... but I wouldn't be using standards on this plane of course)

I use HiTecs and never have used a regulator on them with a 5 cell pack... ptgarcia is right... waste of money and unnecessary weight/failure point.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks Maudib for the info on the battery. I balanced the plane with the tail wheel off, but the wire was installed. I am also going to move the engine out, looks like I can go about a 1/4" more. I hope it is enough to get from 7" to the 5" balance point.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Torquemaster.. welcome to my world!! You are where I was a week or so ago.. TAIL HEAVY.. it sucks don't it!


I made 10 flights the past week and weekend. It still was not super happy with the CG at 5.5 I still had an oversensitive elevator in patterns even on reduced rates. I decided it needed to be at 5" to fly the way I wanted it to so
I got pissed and did some major surgery this week. I am VERY VERY HAPPY I did it. I got my weight down to just over 16 pounds and flew it today...... ABSOLUTELY A DIFFERENT PLANE. CG is at 5.00 inches and that by far is where it needs to be. I can fly IMAC patterns and still do great 3D and stability was flawless for a plane this size.

I made some sacrifices in the battery and some of my paranoia redundancy stuff.. but drastic problems require drastic actions.

Here is what I have done:

TAIL:
I installed a .625 Diameter stab tube and new sleeves savings - 2.2 oz
Intalled a Graphtech CF SMALL tail gear and light foam wheel savings 1oz looks goofy because it is very small... but who cares.
Fabricated an 8/32 threaded carbon fiber rod set for the "bolts" of my DuBro HD horn sets savings 1.5 oz
Ripped the covering off around the tail gear and hogged out a good amount of that 3/8 thick gear plate... savings .4 oz
Cored a few 1/2 holes in the butt end of the tail section .. savings .4 oz
Removed the vinyl decals completely from the tail .. savings - .2 oz

Total weight removed from tail - approx 5.7 oz With a moment of nearly 5:1 that equates to at least 20 oz at the nose


FORWARD OF CG:
Installed a CF wing tube and CF Main Gear - savings 7 oz
1" cored the bottom of the engine box - savings 1 oz
I left the rudder pull-pull as is.
Swapped out the wheel pants for some ultra light weight Columbo Andersons - savings 3 oz
Changed the fuel tank to 16 oz
Cut out the entire bottom of the cowl .. savings 2.2 oz
Ditched my fuel tank shelf that I installed and simply velcrod in the tank.. savings 3 oz

Changed over to a 1800 Mah Li-Ion Duralite "dual pack" and a single Fail Safe regulator savings - 6.6 oz

Total weight shaved = 22.8 oz

Weight before surgery = 17 pounds 8 oz
Weight after surgery = 16 pounds 1 oz.

I am debating whether to re-install the second battery with that installed the weight would be 16.45 pounds... still respectable.

I could tell it was a different plane within the first 2 seconds after it lifted off.

If you have the time or the wherewithall to spend the cash and take the time.. it is worth it. I really had fun today.. I mean this plane flies incredibly well now, better than I expected for a plane this size. I still have some trimming to get done (thrust, etc) but what an awesome plane!!

NOW I am finally smiling. Wish I did this first though. I feel like I built 3 planes already with the work and rework, etc.. !

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Well done DesertPig...

That's a tremendous amount of weight to save... 22.8 oz!!!!

With that said... if a person got to 5" CG, even at 17 lbs... it would probably be a fantastic flier... I thing CG may have been the culprit most of all... But of course the heavyness in the tail made it hard to get there...

What I'm getting at is that Torquemaster or anyone else wouldn't be required to do all these things you mentioned to gat a great flying airplane...

Sometimes (as is your case) going through the extra work to really maximize a planes weight and balance pays off bigtime...

Now... How 'bout a video for BME's website?

RE: BME Edge?
 

I think my biggest mistake on the first round was using the DA standoffs. I should have pushed the engine out as far as it would go. Doing that along with pushing the rudder servo further forward, using the chip hyde control horns. and a lighter tail gear I am sure I would not have had a tail heavy plane then . Oh well. I have no regrets now.. I can't wait until tomorrow!

I'll see what I can do to scare up a camera in the next few weeks. Everyone's practicing for the big IMAC kickoff here in Feb, so not too many 3Ders out these days. I was hacking up the sky pretty good today though!

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks desertpig for the info. It is good to hear that you have got the bugs worked out. Sounds like you are starting to enjoy your new plane. I will continue to keep moving things around to see if I can get it to balance. If not then I will start by reducing weight in the tail, with lighter control rods, horn and tail wheel. I'm not too concerned with the weight of the plane yet, I just need to get it to balance, so that I can get it into the air and then go from there. I'll let you know how things turn out, again thanks for all your suggestions.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I got the .500 i.d. carbon fiber tube in. It is a very tight fit but it does fit. I would not recommend it if you are going to remove the stab all the time, but it presses on with a firm push. It came in a 29" length so I will cut it to 14. Anyone interested in the other half?

My pushrods came in today but they were sticking out of the box and the ends got shattered. I called Chief and he said to email him a pic and he would take care of it.

Ordered the CH horns for elev and ail, gonna use the dubro pull pull system on rudder.

Thanks for your advice desertpig (and everyone else). Saving me from buying everything twice. :D

RE: BME Edge?
 

I finally started working on my plane. Thanks to suggestions from Maudib and Desertpig I set the front of my BME 50 to 7 3/8 in front of the firewall.

Here's a pic of the engine and the cowl.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Perfect! That will go a LONG way in helpign you balance it.

Well... I'm not going to be in a position to finish mine... a local fella picked my (err... his) Edge up Friday... This is a plane I'll probably regret selling...

He said he was going to use a MVVS 58 in it... Good choice... it'll be WAY overpowered, but he shouldn't have ANY issues balancing. The downside will be the weight hit, but he said he was an IMAC flyer and anot a 3D'er... I think this plane would do both quite well.

I can always pick another one up after finishing the myriad of projects I have now up.

I'm staying in the thread to hear the flights, see the videos and help with any input I can...

-David

RE: BME Edge?
 

Yep, I'll take it. PM me for details.

Got mine out of the box and here are the weigh-in results. Digital scale.
Fuse - 46.7 oz
L. Stab - 2.7 oz.......R. Stab - 2.6 oz
L. Elev - 2.5 oz........R. Elelv - 2.5 oz
L. Wing - 24.1 oz.....R.Wing - 25.1 oz
L. Spat - 1.3 oz........R.Spat - 1.2 oz
Fin - 2.2 oz..............Rudder - 4 oz
Hatch - 6.45 oz........Cowl - 9.1 oz
Canopy - 2.3 oz.......Firewall - 6.8 oz

Wing Tube - 8 oz.......Stab Tune - 1.6 oz
Landing Gear - 9 oz...Tailwheel Assy - 1.6 oz
Axles - 1.2 oz............Main wheels - 1.3 oz
Tail wheel - 1.2 oz.....Hardware - 1.8 oz

Total = 165.2 oz = 10 lbs 5.2 oz

I plan on upgrading the tubes, and L/G to CF. New engine mounts will be ordered too to get it as far forward as I can.

Spar

Here are a couple pics of plane and power plant:

RE: BME Edge?
 

Sorry Spar. Torqmaster got to me first.

Lets get Torq's opinion on the tube. I bought it from ACP composites. It is a spiral pattern on the tube, not the usual "crosshatch" pattern. Dont know if that matters, but it is pretty stiff. It is just over an ounce lighter than my stock stab tube.

Did you measure the weights including screws/etc?

I'll let you know if the deal falls through.

Rob

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hi DP, yep, I am interested if it doesn't work out for you. Not sure how much I will really gain from that change because you will still need to add some kind of wood plugs into the tube so you can properly secure the stabs, and CF alone doesn't provide enough meat for threading and screws.
All my weights listed is everything out of the box. Nothing was omitted in the weighing process, so this is my baseline.

Anyone have a preference for a company that supplies the CF wing tube? Has anyone replaced the main L/G yet? If so, where did you get it?
Regarding a rudder pull-pull, could you use ChipHyde horns (1") on both sides of the rudder, or would a Dubro system be better?

Spar

RE: BME Edge?
 

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com for the wingtube

Can't recall now, but the Vision has a hardwood plate where the screw goes into the stab and into the stab tube... I drilled a pilot hole and used servo screws (socket head)... It tpas tight intot he hardwood mounting block and into the tube as well. bo need for internal blocks in the tube there anyway...


I use the Chip hyde horns on the rudder of the DV and get PLENTY throw... using them you get 2/56 bolts and bolt through the rudder and both horns and use nylock locking buts n the other side.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I picked up a couple of the Chip Hyde control horns. They look fine Using Maudib's suggestion to bolt through the rudder. I'm a little hesitant to use them for the elevator using just the 2-56 wood screws. If you mount them, the front two screws don't look like they will bit into the ply plate. Anyone use them for the elevators?



http://www.centralhobbies.com/images/cnthrn-1.jpg


Ed

RE: BME Edge?
 

Ed,

As I mentioned I used Chips suggestion of installing the horns on my Double Vision elevators... I have HAMMERED the elevators HARD for fast speed walls and elevators that should have snapped them plumb off...

They've not even hinted of loosening.

You could longer screws on the Edge because the surface is so thick... wick some CA down into the hole to hardeh the area...

OR I suppose a person could trace the base of the horn on some CF or 1/16 hard ply (paint it) and put it on top of the surface, bolting through it completely...

I trust them as is... but you need to be comfortable and not go by my experience.... I've not heard anyone complain of a failure though...

Here is a pic of an install of the horn on a CAP-X...

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hey Guys how do you think a MOKI 2.10 will handle this bird? I had a MOKI 2.1 on my DV is was alright but not great power. The engine was not broken in yet, but did not want to have to wait to run four gallons throught it?

RE: BME Edge?
 

I bought 4 of the CH horns for elev and ail. I was going to use the dubro pull-pull setup that I bought for the rudder. Do you think I would be better off to use the ch horns I purchased for the ailerons on the rudder to save some tail weight? I have the 3" servo arm, but I would assume it has holes so I could use the 1" horns with my 3" arm on the pull pull.

Should I save the weight and use the ch horns on the rudder? and use regular dubro horns on the ailerons? I dont really want to spend another $17 on another pair of the ch horns.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Best advice is the leave the rudder setup til the very last includign the horns...

Check balane and see how critical it is... then make your decison based on that...

RE: BME Edge?
 

Good idea. Hopefully I can get the motor out far enough forward that I wont need so much tail worry.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I guess I will ask again. Do you think that a MOKI 2.1 will b e enough power for this plane or should I go gas?

RE: BME Edge?
 

Maudib, thanks for the help with installing Chip Hyde's control horns. I also took your advice on the threaded 4-40 with .18 CF stiffened control rods. If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm fairly new to Giant Scale. Here's pic of the installation. I also have pic of where I plan of installing my rudder, throttle and receiver...just in front of the wing tube.

I have a question on the throttle servo...would it be safe to move it closer to the engine? I'm using a BME 50 with CH Ignition. I've read that with CH Ignition, it would be better to have better separation between the radio components and the ignition. It seems with DA, you can mount some of your components closer.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hello is this thing on!!!!!