RE: BME Edge?
 

DP glad you got it balanced. I think you will forget about the weight when you fly it with the correct cg. It really is a nice flying plane.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks Eric... I absolutely love the way it looks and even when it was tail heavy it still flew pretty light... so I think you're right... I will like it...
I don't like to sound like I am whining about weight.. but the plane definitely is heavier than it needs to be out of the box... oh well... I'll shut up now and just enjoy it!!

Thanks for the pics and your setup info!! Everyone else too!!
As soon as the monsoon clears out of here (2" of rain in the desert in the past week...) I'll let you know how she flies !



DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Well, I just received my BME Edge. The kit looks great! Initially, I tried to decide between some of the 28% ARF offerings that are available. I wanted an Edge because of the straight leading edge. The reports in this thread sounded positive. Since I wasn't crazy about scheme on the WH 28% Edge, I went with the BME Edge which looked more acceptable. I ordered right before DesertPig's new posts about the balance issues. In hindsight, I probably should have gone with the better known WH product. When it comes to ARF's you just don't know what you're getting, so a proven product shouldn't come up with new surprises.

Thanks to DP and everyone's suggestions, it sounds like I can work around the balance issue. I believe it's been noted that the engine firewall needs beefing up. DP's bolt at the top two formers looks like a good option. I have a BME 50 and it looks like I can mount it so the prop hub is 7" in front of the firewall.

A couple of questions, in earlier posts it was suggested to get the 3 degree offset on the firewall, you would move the right side 5mm. Since the firewall is 9 inches, I drew this out on a piece of paper with a protractor and it appears to be more like 10mm. I know my math skills aren't the greatest, so can anyone confirm this?

Also, is everyone using BME's suggested wing tube attachment method? Is it possible to use a bolt from inside the fuselage (similar to the Funtana 90 and others).

Thanks in advance.

RE: BME Edge?
 

ed -

I mounted the firewall FLAT with no thrust.. I then used washers and countersunk the standoffs to achieve the right amount of thrust... 3* is too much... 2* not enough. Its easier to be able to change the standoffs than it is to
change the firewall IMO.. also the reinforcement bolt won't line up as nice and a square box makes for a stronger firewall...

As far as the wing tube - bolt it in per the manual... it is a royal PITA to align if its loose!

You might also want to change the wing mounts... instead of simply tapping holes in the wing tube and using the supplied screws.. I ditched that setup. Instead, I used the wing tube to core some 1" thick soft balsa to make "end plugs" I then drilled 1/2" holes in the end plugs and glued in 1/2" round dowel hard points. I inserted and glued the plugs into the wing tube (after I drilled the holes in the tube from under the wing) then drilled the holes in the plugs through the existing holes in the wing tube... I tapped the holes with 8-32 threads and used a DuBro socket head screw to secure... rock solid.


PM if you need any suggestions... wish I had a virgin kit to start over on!!

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

DP,

Thanks for your suggestion on the wing retentions mods. It certainly sounds better than just tapping into the wing tube from underneath the wing.

I was wondering if anyone tried to bolt thru the fuse side into the wing cord. Similar to this:

[link=http://www.rrcc.org/reviews/awedge540t/aw540t10.html]Wing Retention[/link]

Ed

RE: BME Edge?
 

Ed,

You could easily do that mod to this plane... What you need to make sure of is that the wing tube itself stays centered in the fuse... it's possible that the wingtube might slide further into one wing and perhaps enough that the opposite wing doesn't have sufficient support... I haven't checked mine yet...

Just check to make sure this isn't the case (it was with the lighter Wild Hare tubes).

Center the tube in the fuse and mark both sides... labeling them left and right... then remove the tube and stuff it in each wing half checking to see if it slides significantly further in on either side.... if there seems to be too much (maybe more than a 1/2" or so) then you can shorten the wing tube socket by taking a thick cardboard tube that's a little bigger than the socket, cutting it to length, then cutting a sliver from the circle making a "C"... pinch it together and insert in the wing socket and stuff it down with the wing tube.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I did that exact thing on my CA31%... I left the Edge alone as I my method using the wing tube mentioned above really worked well.. that and there was very little room to manuever around inside the Edge to be messing around with bolts inside the fuse...

DA makes some really nice anti-rotation / wing retainers... I will be using them on my next large project...

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

hey guys, i just got a BME 30% Edge 540 on Christmas day(lucky me!!).. anyway, i have it all ready to fly less the engine. im going with a G-62. and hear this, the plane weighs only nine point zero seven(9.07) pounds without the engine!! so im gonna have a 14 pound plane with a G62 in it!!!!![8D][8D]:D:D

RE: BME Edge?
 

Well, you won't have a balance issue will ya... :)

RE: BME Edge?
 

Dont forget to put the wings on.

;)
Just kidding.

How so light? What servos and components are you using?


Congrats on the weight.

Rob

RE: BME Edge?
 

He's a troll... either that or he has HS-81's all around... ;)

RE: BME Edge?
 

heres what i have ON THE PLANE NOW..
Setup:
Engine- none
Servos- (4)Hitec 645's (1)JR 8611 (1)Fut 3004
Linkages- All CF with titanium ends (4 rods and 8 ends)
Expert and Cermark leads and reversers
Futaba 149DF reciever (PPM)
Both wings:D
all control surfaces(duh)[&:]
canopy hatch
Du-Bro 4-40 Pull-pull system
robart control horns
hangar 9 servo arms (4)1 inch singles (1)2 1/2 inch double
Du-Bro ball-swivell links(8)
all decals
and thats pretty much it.. o yeah, a two bottles of epoxy:D
all up weight(i weighed it a second time 2 minutes ago nine point zero six (9.06) pounds.. so we lost 1 tenth of a pound..shes been watching her carbs!:D

RE: BME Edge?
 

actually, i have metal geared servos!! i guess this balsa and ply was very light in this kit.. but im not complaining! i can't believe it came out to 9 pounds.. thats just magic fro 85" of wood. and this is built really strong!
BTW.. my original choice of engine was a Moki 2.10.. so even with that engine.. it would've been 12.5 pounds!
O.K. that's my shpiel.

RE: BME Edge?
 

First you forgot batteries...

Second, it's possible that your bare plane weighs 9.06 lbs... but even that would be a stretch...

My fuse, wings, wingtube, cowl, canopy, hatch, pants and stabs that are hinged, 2 Dubro HD control horns and a Dubro pull-pull horn all weigh right at 10 lbs...

That's no servos, no batteries, no receiver, no linkage, no wheels, no extensions...

Simply NO way yours weighs 9.06... but you can keep on thinking that if it gets you through the night... :)

RE: BME Edge?
 

i guess i did forget the battery, but it was too in the plane when i cheked it, a JR Extra 1800 Mah pack.. and ill send you a pic tomorow of the scale and how much it reads! i'm tellin ya, it weighs 9 pounds!!! i just triple checked it!

RE: BME Edge?
 

Could be a weigh scale made by the same folks who make those special ***** measuring tapes! Oops! I mean fish measuring tapes!;)

Actually looking forward to bolting up an MVVS 58 to mine, no ballance issues like those wussie little DAs [sm=biggrin.gif]

RE: BME Edge?
 

that's the setup i have on my edge, excpet i sed 10-32 hex head bolts

RE: BME Edge?
 

well, no its a professional scale. and i know its right. but i right-on with the above!^^:D:D

RE: BME Edge?
 

While I'm at it... my engine (ZDZ-50), Inv. Pitts Muffler, Ignition, Dave Brown spinner and 22x8 prop weigh at 4.25 lbs...

Add 12 oz for servos and 4 oz for extensions another lb.

Add 10 for the lion batteries, 2 for switches/regulator 3/4 lb

That SHOULD get me to around 16 lbs... add 8 oz for misc things like fiber optic kill switch, aileron horns, linkage, etc...

I'm thinking it's gonna end up at 16.5 lbs... I could drop 4 oz in a wingtube, but that's about as much as I can see dropped....

I already have the Graphtec small tailwheel.... and you can't get a stab tube for it.

I don't think it's gonna fly much different minus 4 oz so I'll stick with 16.5 lbs... Should be pretty nice at that weight... My Wild Hare was 17.25...

RE: BME Edge?
 

I found some 9/16 inch CF tubes, but they are the I/D measurement, not O/D.

TUR-09 Carbon Tubes / Roll Wrapped .5625"(9/16")ID x .033"WT x 29.5" $24.00

They do have this one though:
TUR-08 Carbon Tubes / Roll Wrapped .555 ID x .033" WT x 28.5" $25.00 So, what would the O/D be if the ID was .555" plus .033 wall thickness?

Found them from ACP Composites.
[link=http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-tube.htm]ACP Composites[/link]

RE: BME Edge?
 

Great sleuthing there DirtyPool...

First let me say that I didn't put a caliper to the tube so I can't be 100% on the exact size... but I laid the round over a rule and it's definitely bigger than .5" and less than .635"...

It's right at .5625 or 9/16"... it's POSSIBLE is could be as big as .588 and that last tube you mentioned would work... Calipers please.... :)

I asked Max abot it and he said that the plans specified a 1/2" tube, but that the manufacturer may have substituted for what they could source easily. Then I mentioned how advantageous it would be if was 1/2" so CF stab tubes could save an oz in the tail and 4-5 in the nose...

he said he'd check to see what the shpeil is...

RE: BME Edge?
 

Thanks.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

(if you have enough time to spend on the web)
;)

RE: BME Edge?
 

It would not be too difficult to install a 1/2 inch tube. The sleeve sold by Troybuilt probably would fit into the existing sleeve.. if not, I think it could easily be drilled out and reset... no hill for a climber.

I want to see some bona-fide weights.. no fish tales please!! I cannot see this pig weighing in at anything less than 16 pounds 12 oz with what everyone is equipping theirs with and most likely a lot more. Mine weighs 17.5 and I am a very experienced "light builder" ... My weight problem is in the tail.. it is very heavy. With the exception of going to a CF stab tube and perhaps some lighter weight control horns, there is not much I can to do get weight out. The last resort is to move the elevator servos.

Had I to do over, I would at least do the following..

CF stab tube -1 oz
CF main gear -4oz
Eliminate redundant batt pack/reg - 6oz

I move the rudder pull-pull 2" forward from where it is now and move both tail servos forward into a servo tray and use CF sleeved pushrods (similar to what pattern ships use) to acheive the weight reduction forward of the CG then there would be many options to remove weight forward of CG.


Without moving the elevator servos the best I could hope for is 16 pounds 8oz on single batteries.
I have used the lightest weight components available including a CF spinner, MenzS wood prop, titanium / CF pushrods and light alloy horns.


If I moved the servos and went with all CF gear, tubes, etc.. I could probably get it to a hair under 16.. which is where it really needs to be to fly unlimited 3D.

Oh well... I'll save the effort for the Velox if it ever gets here..

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

I'm still debating on whether I will go ahead and assemble the Edge or not.

I have the Double Vision... which I love. A Vision which I will probably love and should come in at 15 lbs.

I have the EF 87" Yak coming which will hit about 15.5 lbs with tuned pipe.

I also have a backup DV and Vision in the boxes...

Though these Edge's are purported to fly great (both WH and BME) I can't take all these planes to the field...

I have mine with the surfaces hinged and firewall attached & pinned... nothing else...

I have a new ZDZ-50 sitting here for it and could easily just finish it out and fly it...

On the other hand I built a WH RTF and sold it without flying it, and don't want to do that again. Maybe I'll see what the market says...

What to do, what to do....

RE: BME Edge?
 

Maudib.. you need to live in AZ or FLA!! With all those planes you need to fly more! I can see why you have so many though.. more time to build than weather to fly.
I lived in the Midwest part of my life and while the area was nice, the weather was the worst in the country.

I'd still build the edge!! ... it does fly very nice.. I was out this AM before the wind kicked in.. MUCH BETTER now that I have it balanced. Vertical performance is surprisingly good for the weight, probably will only get better as the engine runs in. I have not wrung it out yet.. I want to make sure everything is secure before I start thrashing, but the few things I did do were quite nice (flat spin, harrier, TR)...

My guess is this plane flies just like the WH does... its about the same plane and built by the same company.. unfortunately.. same weight too.


I'm still not happy it weighs as much as it does, but I can't tear it apart (again) so I will enjoy it as is. I think its one of the nicest looking edges out there so that is a plus. Still- I can't wait for the Velox to get here.. I think that plane has a lot of potential..


My opinion - I think you should bash the BME and make it a 3D monster!
I would put good money that you could get to under 16 pounds.

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

These planes are not built by the same manufacturer...

Wild Hare's are built in Korea (I think) and BME's in China.

As far as dropping weight...

You'd have to go with a CF wingtube, gear, spinner and tailwheel. The stab would have to be rebuilt to accept 1/2" stab tube and the fuse reworked accordingly.

I personally don't think 16.5 is that bad... and with just the wingtube & gear could be right at 16 lbs...

It's not an issue of the plane being great... it's the company it would have to keep and compete with.

And that list of planes was just the 50cc planes... I have a 100cc BME Ultimate almost done, a H9 33% Sukhoi with ZDZ 80, a 34% Chip Hyde Extra coming... and a couple of those Tunnel Visions.

Yeah I DO need to live in Texas, AZ or some such place...

Til that happens (probably never) I need to thin down the fleet to my very most favorite of favorites.

I guess I won't know about the Edge if I don't fly it... hmmmmm.

We'll see if there's a local buyer out there... if not I'll definitely finish it.

Chip is coming out with a new canister called the quiet pipe... I've got one on the way and it may enthuse me enough to install it in the Edge... there is just enough room for a standard can, and this Quiet Pipe is supposed to be the lightest and smallest available...

Ahhh well... we'll see....

Glad to hear you're liking the BME...

In actuality... 16-17 is average for a 50cc plane... the Vision is the first I've seen that will hit 15 and the EF Yak will be 15.5... and the Yak is VERY lightly built... you just can't get an arf any lighter than it and it uses composite gear and CF wingtube/stabtube to get there!. So 1 lb heavier for a studier built plane isn't to bad at all.

And you have to admit... it is well built.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Well, I just ordered the 1/2 inch stab tube.

It was .500" ID plus wall thickness of .032 which should equal .564 and the stock 9/16 inch tube is .5625

I will keep you posted on what shows up and if it fits.

Rob

RE: BME Edge?
 

well, my plane came out to 9 pounds with no motor and im planning on using iether a Moki 2.10(2.5 pounds) or a Zen G62(5 pounds), which would get me way under 16 pounds either way! so i wouldn't say that if i were you..

RE: BME Edge?
 

Heck use a Saito 1.00 on it... you'll have all the power your imagination can muster.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Dude, I'm sorry, but you need a new set of scales. There is no way yours is that much lighter than everyone else's. No matter, you will have a nice flying plane no matter how much your scales are lying to you.

RE: BME Edge?
 

TeamZen - Roll me one of those spliffs would you? Maybe I can watch my edge lose 2 pounds too!!
LMFAO!
DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

hey dude, i checked it on 3 scales.. each a different brand.. how about an explination for that?? look, i dont know how it is that weight but just face the facts it is!

RE: BME Edge?
 

Hey guys,

Subscribed! :D

I ordered mine last week from Max, and it should, hopefully, arrive next week. Teal scheme version.
Lots of great info in the thread and I plan on going with as much of the weight reducing items as I can.

DA50 for the power plant.
HS-645MG for wings
HS-5645MG for Elev
JR 8611 for rudder

Keep the info coming. Especially the wing tube and stab tube sizes. I will be ordering those soon.
I have a great digital scale and will weigh everything once it gets here.

Spar

RE: BME Edge?
 

All this talk about the weight of the kit made me curious. Unfortunately all I have is an old baby scale, but I am coming out with about 10 pounds for all the components in the kit. I weighed it two ways.

First the major components grouped together:
5# 9 oz for the fuse, hatch, firewall, hardware package, wing tubes, etc
4# for the wings, stab and rudder
9 oz for the cowl
-----
10# 2oz Total

I also weighed the individual components
9 oz cowl
46 oz wings
4 oz one stab
4 oz one stab
7 oz rudder
10 oz wing and stab tube
12 oz LG
58 oz fuse, firewall and hatch
8 oz HW package and wheel pants
------
158 oz Total or 9# 14 oz

I plan on swapping out the tail gear which weighs around 3 ounces.

My BME 50 and ignition is 3# 12 oz.

Of course, I'll still need:
switches
servos + linkage (JR 8611 for rudder and Hitec 5945's for ailerons/elevator)
batteries
fuel tank
H9 motor mount
1 1/2 aluminum motor mount extensions from RC Showcase
Spinner
Prop

It just keeps adding up. What else did I forget?

RE: BME Edge?
 

Nothing... built as we all have been building it we are all looking at 17.5 pound planes...

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Ed, mine was about that too... that's where it should be. (Don't give another thought to someones claim about a 9 lb plane wiht everything but engine it ain't so)

If you stick to single battery I think you should get it under 17 lbs... I still think mine would end up at 16.5...

I measured and found that you can get the cowl out to 7" away from the firewall... this gives about 1/16" overlap so you don;t see the F1 former. The cowl mounting blindnuts on the side will have to be pulled and moved to in front of former F1... And if you haven't poked the holes through it yet, you won't even know it was done.

This is a MUST do based upon reports of taiheavy planes.

Then install the ignition & battery on the firewall.

I'd also recommend drilling some material out of the landing gear block... there's a lot there just make sure you leave some meat where the screws for your tailwheel goes... which... BTW... toss the stock tailwheel and get another... superstar or as I did the Graphtec CF tailwheel.

Last thing to do is make sure you install the rudder servo as far forward as possible... yo should have no probelms achieving and adjusting CG with battery position from that point.

The stock wheels are fine and extremely light (tho DP has been TOLD that they don't hold up on asphalt)

Try them and replace them if they wear with harder ones.

Control horns... if you don;t already have them, look for lighter ones... maybe Chip Hyde's ball bearing control horns... very light and they come with clevises...

Just add a ball link to the servo horn and you're good to go.

-David

RE: BME Edge?
 

I wanted to add that while I am very disappointed that it will never come down to 15.5, 16.5-17.5 is about average for a 50CC plane... so it's not pig or heavy plane at all. It just isn't living up to (yet again) manufacturers pie in the sky estimates.

RE: BME Edge?
 

I had my "pig" out today.. .it does fly very well and you don't really feel the weight. Man that DA50 is a strong engine...
My description of this plane as a tail heavy pig was probably a little harsh!

If yours comes out to 17.5 I probably would not sweat it.. do what Maudib suggests.. I would have to tear mine apart so Im going to keep as is. I am sure you could shave 8oz easy.

The only area I notice the weight is harriers.. I get wing rock, but other than that... it is pretty rock solid. Slow flight is a lot better now that I have found the CG sweet spot.

I put the light foam wheels back on.. total flying weight less fuel (measured with my 3 point super-accurate scale) 17 pounds 5 ounces. The wheels do make a diff.

CG is at 5.45 inches from LE at the fuse, which translates to about 34% MAC.. .pretty agressive, but all the elevator hunting and wing drops are GONE which is what I was trying to achieve.


Did some agressive stuf today... I LIKE IT!!

3 landings and the stock wheels still look like new.. maybe they are different than the "other"ones out there....

I do notice they flat spot when they sit... but it does not effect ground handling..

DP

RE: BME Edge?
 

Maudib, I see yours is up for sale now.

Guess you made your decision.

RE: BME Edge?
 

Not really...

If someone local will pick it up, then yes I'll let it go...

BUT... if a buyer can't meet my price or pick it up... then it will get built... and flown the heck out of... :)

I'll just limit myself to TWO favorite planes at the field any given day...

Without a doubt the Edge is a great flying design, and BME's rendition is as good a 50cc Edge as any other... and perhaps a little better. I really do think it has excellent material and build quality. And seems to be at least 1/4 lb less than the others out there.

SO who knows... for now I've got some other projects going and the Vision and EF Yak ditched in line. I'm very close to finishing BME's 100cc Ultimate... again a really nicely built airframe.

On the subject of Pigs...

I got excited over the Patty Wagstaff and built one with a ZDZ 50... 16.5 lbs! Everyone loves the way it flies... but it felt heavy to me in the air and a little fast on landing... but with a lower pitch prop slowed down better.

Still it weighed as much as I think this Edge will end up and it only has 1157 sq. in. while the Edge has about 200 more inches... that's a lot!

Anywho... Real glad you've got that sweet spot thing going with your Edge DesertPig... if it's like most... you'll love it more and more each time out. And the engine... well if youthink it's a hauler now... wait til you have 4-5 gallons through it... You should see a noticable difference each visit at the field... stronger and stronger.