Ultimate Biplane
 

Hey Guys!

I am looking for some opinions. I want an ultimate biplane ARF or better yet, ARC. I want something in a .60 2S/.90 4S size.

Global has one, but it is a .40 size.

The ones that I have looked at on-line are the .40 size and 1.20 size from DPM. The 1.20 is, well, pricey with the OS120FSIII w/pump or the 160 twin. One thing that I do like is the fact that I can get one ARC in either size.

The only one so far seems to be the CGM. It seems to be just right. Not too big, not too small. However, it does not come uncovered that I know of.

Do you guys have any other ARF/ARC ultimates that I can check out?

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

Ultimate Biplane
 

Andrew, I have owned about 12 aerobatic planes in the past three years. 1/4 scale caps, .40 pattern, 3D's. I have a CG Ultimate. It is without a doubt one of the highest quality ARF's you can get and an awesome plane to fly. I have an OS 1.08 on mine. If I can tell you anything else just let me know. there is no other bipe in this size range that can compare. I've seen a lot of them. Most are either smaller or bigger. The CG Ultimate is a perfect size. I could have only one plane, this would be it.

PS: here are a few comments I made in another post.

The Manufacturer: A call to Goldberg Products generally results in a pleasant experience. That means a real person answers the phone and generally knows what they are talking about. On top of that they have a complete set of replacement parts available for the Ultimate.

The Quality of the Plane: The plane itself is one of the best I have seen. The cowl is of extremely high quality; the covering was flawless; and the plane built straight and true with no glitches. The manual is very complete and easy to follow and includes a list of parts available for the plane. I built mine basically stock and have about 20-30 flights on her and not a bit of trouble flying off of grass and asphault. She is rock solid. The blue & yellow Goldberg Ultimate is a beautiful plane with a very high “wow” factor. One other point. I feel the Ultimate is an ideal size. Not to big to transport easily; but big enough to be easy to see and possess great flight characteristics and eye appeal. The favorite in my fleet.

Flight Characteristics: The Goldberg Ultimate is a contradiction in terms. An extremely docile flying plane when you want it that way; but you can go wild in a blink. I am only an advanced-intermediate flyer (I can’t do blenders or waterfalls), but this plane is a blast to fly. My limited experience says it is one of the best combination use planes (Sport, 3D, IMAC) you can buy. I’m flying mine with a Pitts style muffler equipped OS 1.08 2-stroke swinging a MenzS 15x8 prop. A perfect engine for this plane. When you add that to the above mentioned “Wow” factor, you have one fun plane. If you’ve never flown a biplane you are definitely missing something and the Goldberg Ultimate is as good as it gets. My color pattern also makes it extremely easy to see and maintain orientation during aerobatics. This plane also has one other trait I just love. It has the best landing glide slope of any plane I’ve flown (about a dozen types). It comes down in an easily controllable decent that is not affected by ground affect and settles smoothly on the runway in all kinds of conditions. Her ground handling characteristics are also very docile.





Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Steve,

I need a favor.

Your enthusiasm for this plane has made me remember how much I liked the kit I built many years back; to the point I'm seriously considering the ARF.

I need to know how tall it is with the wings off. Please measure to the top of the rudder and the top of the front cabane attachment.

No point in getting one if it won't fit under my truck's bed cap.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Had to jump in on this thread. I finally got my CG Ultimate ARF together and flown a few times. WOW! What a delight! If you have a full size pick-up, the plane will fit in and under a cover fully assembled...at least it does in my F-150 flareside. This is such a fun plane to fly (and bring out to the field and get lots of great comments). It has no bad habits, flys like on rails, handles crosswinds well (which suprised me) and lands almost like a trainer...honest!

Ultimate Biplane
 

Steve, mine was hanging from the ceiling when I measured it, but it looks like it is 18.5 inches high at the cabanes and 17" at the rudder.

Ultimate Biplane
 

Hey guys,
I flew a Goldberg Ultimate / YS 120 AC for 6 years. I never flew a plane I liked better until I got my Dave Patrick Ultimate / YS 140 DZ. The Patrick flys much better then the GB. I would strongly suggest going with the DP.... they do come in an ARC version.

Ultimate Biplane
 

<<..The Patrick flys much better than the GB...>>

In what way?



Steve, sounds like it just might squeeze in under the bed cap on my S-10; thanks.

Now, what engine? I've narrowed it down to a my YS 91 (in a pinch), or a new Saito or OS 120.

I had a Grauper three-blade prop on the OS 120 on the one I built long ago. Also had a Graupner 15x6 three blade on my Super AeroMaster. I really kick myself for selling the YS 120 FZ I had in that airplane...

I can't remember if I used a 15x6 or 14x7 on the Ultimate; but it worked great.

I'm sure the YS 91 will fly the model adequately, but I'd like pretty good vertical. That's why I'm considering buying a new 120; and I'm leaning toward the Saito right now...

Anyone flying this Ultimate with the YS 91FZ? If so, I'd appreciate hearing about your performance, what prop/fuel, etc.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

Andrew

Ultimate Biplane
 

The DP holds a line much better, horizontal and verticle. It is much easier to do pattern work with. It flys smoother and tracks better all the way around. It also does better spins... gorgeous upright and inverted spins... it even does a nice knife edge spin. It is easier to land, handles wind better....etc etc etc. Dave Patrick learned a lot from his Goldberg Ultimate design and improved on it with his DPM design. Do I sound like I love this plane? I absolutey adore it!!

Ultimate Biplane
 

Do not put a YS 91 on it..... you won't be happy. A biplane has more drag then a mono plane.. it needs more power. I have a YS 140 DZ in mine. I had a Saito 180 in it and liked it.... but I like the DZ a lot better. An OS 160 is also a great choice if you want to keep the price down... and the operating costs down.

Ultimate Biplane
 

If you are talking about the small DP or the Goldberg Ultimate that is to much engine. And he has already stated he is not looking for a larger plane.

Gry101, if I had it to do over again I would wait about a month or two and put the new YS 1.10 in her. Otherwise many have written about the virtues of the 1.08 in this plane. It's just about as big as you can go without buggering up the plane weight/balance wise, and it will be a substantial improvement over the .91

Ultimate Biplane
 

Locomotive,

Got it; understand. Now, do you think all that is because of the larger size, or because of design improvements DP made in regards to moments, etc.?

If the latter, can you be more specific?

<<...Don't put a 91 on it...>>

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I've seen a kit-built fly adequately with an OS 91, and the YS definitely has more grunt; but I want more than adequate.

Still, I'm going to rob the servos & rx out of the UCD for this project; why not the engine too? They sell the cowl as a replacement part. If the YS 91 proves to be not strong enough for my tastes, a simple application of Mr. VISA will get me a 120 and a new cowl to fit...

Hmmm...decisions, decisions. But isn't that part of the fun???<G>

Ultimate Biplane
 

<<...operating costs down...>>

That Dingo must be a gas hog, eh? Everything I've heard says that the big two-strokes really guzzle fuel; if a Dingo is worse, it must inhale the stuff...

Ultimate Biplane
 

Larger size, light wing loading, improved decalage and thrust angles.

Trust me... a YS 91 is not going to please you. If your worried about fuel costs go with an OS 160. If you want the power go with a YS 140L or DZ.

Ultimate Biplane
 

Andrew,
Direct Connection still offers an Ultimate uncovered (ARC).
Regards,
DGO

Ultimate Biplane
 

What you are looking for is the Ultimate from direct connection RC. http://www.directconnectionrc.com

It's an ARG, and flies very well. I really enjoyed mine.

TF

Direct Connection Ultimate is slightly bigger
 

than the CG Ultimate. The full size american trucks have a bed depth of 19" that will fit even the DP Ultimate. If your bed depth is less than that it's a tight squeeze.

In my Tundra (16" typical Japanese depth bed) with the flush mount tonneau cover I had to remove the landing gear and then the tail wheel had a little pressure from the top.

Bottom line:
If your bed depth is less than 19" get the CG Ultimate (or do like I did and get rid of the truck for an SUV :D).

If you bed depth is 19" and your pocket is equally deep, get the DP Ultimate (and a big motor!).

HTH,

Scott

Ultimate Biplane
 

Scott,

I hear you. I've got 19" in the center where the ARE cover has a slightly indented area.

No way I'm going with the "remove pieces/parts to transport" gig again. Did that with the 1/4 scale CAP (same deal as you- had to take the gear off). Having to put the wings on and off each time is PITA enough.

I looked at that Direct Connection Ultimate when I was in Columbus a few years back; beautiful airplane, but like you say, it is a bit larger.

Locomotive, I hear you regarding the DP's better design parameters, but I'm hosed space-wise. I THINK the Goldberg will fit back there; I KNOW the DP won't.

I intend to buy another SUV as a retirement present to myself. In the meantime, I'm stuck with my little S-10. I had an Explorer when I had my first CG Ultimate. It went in the back fully assembled with room to spare.

Thanks, guys.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Steve,

Just for info. My CG Ultimate, assembled, will JUST fit in my suburban if I put it in tail first and at an angle. Ever since I found that out, it has been a lot more fun to fly. Yes 15 minutes to assemble is not that bad; but it's the PITA factor I hate.

Steve

PS: I made an overhead rack to hold wings and some PVC racks that allow me to stack planes on top of each other. I can put two 1/4 scale and two normal size planes in my suburban now if I really want to. but ever since I got the Ultimate it's the only plane I ever take anymore.

Ultimate Biplane
 

The CG Ultimate is definitely just the right size for transportation. I never had to remove the wings on any of mine when going to the field. Actually, even my DP 1.20 size Ultimate fits right in my SUV which is an Acura MDX. I have to put it in tail first diagonally, but I've had it AND my Goldberg Sukhoi both in there at once (The wing was off the Sukhoi!)

Direct Connection Ultimate ARC
 

I have the direct Connection Ultimate ARC.It stands 19" with 3" wheels.It's a nice plane.Hope to fly it this Sunday for thr first time.

Hank

Ultimate Biplane
 

Well, the availability date has been moved back to "Late June"; the rice crop must have been delayed coming in...<G>

Ultimate Biplane
 

The CG Ultimate is EXACTLY the same size as the World Models Ultimate ARF. The CG Ultimate is a dog vertically with an OS 90 4 stroke on it no matter how light you build it. The World ARF is a superb performer with a Saito 1.50 4s. The DP planes are too expensive but they do fly extremely well properly set up and powered. The Cermark Pitts flys very well with a Saito 1.50, in case you are interested.

I've been flying bipes of all aerobatic types for many, many years. Power is everything in a biplane due to the extra drag of the second wing and struts. I am not trying to take anything away from any of the models mentioned, just providing some personal experience.

Ultimate Biplane
 

I agree with what you say about the different Ultimates except for the comment that the DP Ultimate is overpriced. The Goldberg ARF Ultimate is around $330 at most shops and the DP Ultimate ARF is $400. I've owned and flown both the kit AND the ARF versions of the CG Ultimate and still own and fly a DP Ultimate. The Goldberg ARF has some great improvements over the kit version of the plane, but the Patrick Ultimate is MORE than worth the $70 difference in price both in the quality and design of the plane. There's just no comparison in the handling qualities of the two aircraft as the Patrick plane is definitely superior. Now this is in no way knocking the CG Ultimate as it is still my second favorite plane after the DP!

I just put a YS 1.40FZ Sport engine in my DP Ultimate and it swings a Pro Zinger 18x6 prop at 8700 rpm which is more than enough power for the plane. It now hovers at 1/4 throttle with ease and can pull out at 1/2 throttle. I previously had a YS 120FZ in the plane which would give it decent vertical, but would require around 1/2 throttle to hover and would only pull out vertically at a bit over 3/4 throttle. In my various CG Ultimates, my favorite engines that I'd tried were the OS 1.08 2-stroke and the YS 120FZ 4-stroke.

Ultimate Biplane
 

<<The CG Ultimate is EXACTLY the same as the World Models Ultimate...>>

Well, not exactly. The WM has wire gear and what appears to be wood cabanes. Still, it looks good, and WM has a great reputation.

But I'm real partial to that BlueHawk scheme, and the UltraCote. I think I'll wait for the CG version...

Thanks, silversurfer, for mentioning the WM. I had thought it was a bigger model.

Steve