Don,

There is no can of worms that didn’t already exist.

There are NO RULES.

What is painfully clear is that if you don’t have the tools to execute safely, safety will not happen.

If you have the tools someone might be able assist in the learning process.

Again there are no rules being made! You cannot extrapolate the original statements into something entirely different. How many more times does this need to be stated?

The member continues to be responsible for listening to those more knowledgeable, flying safely, and maintaining responsibility for their own actions.

Bill

I've been reading this topic. and thought that I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. Here's a new club member, just having spent upwards of $400 for an ARF trainer, $60 club dues, AMA dues, and spent a couple of hundred more on field box, fuel, starter, ect.... Now, someone comes up to him and says he can't fly because he doesn't have a $100 Fluke multimeter. The poor guy hardly knows how to put fuel in the plane, much less how to start it or tune the engine.

In our club, the average age is around 40, and getting higher every year, due to young members dropping out of the club, after only a few flying sessions. Some of the younger members feel intimidated by older members and their collection of "Absolutely Necessary" equipment. Now, whenever we have a new member show up at the field, several of us will stop our flying, just to help the newbie. We're glad to share our multimeters, starters, prop wrenches, and most of all, our years of knowledge. Not only do we share our tools, but we take the time to explain which ones are more important, so the new flyer can determine what he needs to buy next. Usually the newbie needs a bottle of CA, more that he needs a multimeter.

My first few years of battery management consisted of a wall wart and a clock. If it charged 16 hours, it would fly 5 flights in a trainer. I'm pretty sure the same would apply now.

Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

Nashcat

As someone who dropped out of a club after only a few flying lessons, I can safely say that Nashcat brings a dose of much needed reality to this topic.

I stopped flying (in clubs) because unlike other RC hobbies, where you go to track, lake or whatever, take out your model, use it for hours, compete with other people, sit back and have a soda while your batteries charge, etc., flying RC planes is one big headache after another. I suppose I was spoiled by the ease of other RC hobbies...charge, drop, play.

Be it boats, park flyers, cars, whatever. Rules that may seem simple and logical to you do nothing but scare off new people...too much to remember, too soon, too much reliance on other people to tell you what to do.

RC flying, with all the rules, restrictions and maintenance (compared to all other RC products, your typical glow plane is a quality nightmare), is just not FUN. And RC flying is something you play at...it's supposed to be FUN...it's playing with expensive TOYS, not performing brain surgery.

You can't change the realities of the hobby, but you can make it easier for new people to join. Otherwise, the current trend of supplanting the old fashioned flying field with the elecrtic fly-anywhere park flyers will only continue until product support, development and innovation of the large fast glow or gas powered RC airplane is a thing of the past. Just look at what RTR car models have done for the RC car industry in terms of sales volume, people comming to the hobby, new products, etc. All because they made it easy for new people to come in.

It's just as fun to fly an Aerobird Extreme as it is to fly a glow fuel trainer (actually more..I have both). And with the Aerobird, I can do it on my own terms, when I'm good and ready, without any help, and without any fear of crashing.

Copied from the original post.

Hi Bill.. our club 'rules' now include a fire extinguiser being handy for gas powered applications... minimal grumping occured when this motion was made.. a guy had a flame-up with a gas engine; the need was obvious.

Most folks, when confronted with a new requirement (any requirement) generally start hopping on the 'constitutional rights' bandwagon and begin to exaggerate the implications and impact of the 'new' requirement, whatever it may be.

Our local electric club recently instituted a 'no unattended charging' requirement for li-poly setups.. lordy; you shoulda heard the howling on that one...

Bottom line, if it helps preserve the flying site and improve the saftey of operations for your club it should be discussed by the membership and voted into the club by-laws.. if the case can't be made and the membership shoots it down, then yah did your part to raise awareness at the least.. which might save a plane or two regardless.

Good luck!

Hangtime it is so frustrating to finally realize that collectively and as a group we have little interest in people safety.

Although also difficult I can more easily understand why a group with older demographics are against any technological improvements. Someday I will be down linking voltage from my Junker airplanes on a regular basis but it win not improve general field safety one iota. Someday you and I will fly without the necessity of the stupid and antiquated Pin Box.

An interesting safety change at another field:
http://www.joenall.com/joenall2/safetyletter.html

Thanks for the kind comments.

Bill

OK..fair enough...but I think you understand what I am saying....

You decide not to allow a new member in by voting no....

Your criteria was that he/she didn't have a voltmeter....but it still stands...

Just add..."to get a Yes vote from you" at any appropriate sentance.......

exeter acres,

OK your interest is in making a whole bunch of new unenforceable rules.

Respectfully.

Bill

No...I'm just asking you to clarify exactly what your criteria would be for a Yes vote to join your club....

Assume I have a voltmeter...
You yourself said there are too many other variables in an earlier post....

so what exactly would "earn" a Yes vote from you.....

Here is what I try to say with my previous comment:

Checking "no load" condition Voltage tells nothing. You should all know the reason, but to make sure I tell: the discharge curve is not linear. NiCd is somehow, but Nimh battery voltage really climbs up when the battery rests. Still there is no capasity available.

And how you make the decision even if you can estimate the battery capasity you have left?? The voltmeter doesnt replace common sense.

Learnt this myself a few weeks ago. I went flying heli (2500mAh Nimh) at 4.8V which I checked.. but came back to earth in a few minutes with fail safe servo settings. (below 3.8V)

Jyrki

I "cycle" my batteries after each outing,to check for cells going bad or reduced capacity.I keep my batteries on continuous "Trickle" charge,So they ARE fully charged at all times.I have dual batteries,and dual switches in ALL of my planes.And my batteries are all 1800 mah capacity.I could fly my 4lbs plane for a full 8-10 hours without having to worry about remaining battery capacity.
I don't feel I have the need to check my batteries before each flight.I don't feel I need to check the batteries before the 3rd or 4th flight(I have done my checks before coming to the field).
I feel anyone who "Needs" to check his batteries before every flight is using "Unsafe" equipment.I would VOTE to BAN them from the club.But, I won't!

I will vote for anyone who demonstrates the ability to fly safely and that includes having a voltmeter and using it. That includes people that I might not like.

Bill

Bill you’re entitled to blackball a potential member for whatever criteria you deemed necessary. However you may want to seek the answer to a couple questions before faulting a person for what the DON’T do.

Nobody enters this sport with a complete understanding of the nuances involved… such as frequently checking the status of a battery pack, somebody has to teach and stress the importance to a beginner. Have they properly been provided the knowledge?

How many of the existing members in your club check their flight packs during a flying secession? Beginners typically establish routines by following the examples of others.

If you can’t answer the first part with a resounding YES and the second part with, absolutely everybody! Then the fault lies within the organization not the individual. You can’t hold the individual responsible when the system isn’t conducive to teach your measure of success.

You are absolutely correct the fault is a general problem. My voting rule will be publicly stated to those who have email and hopefully published in the newsletter. The awareness will certainly be raised which is a good thing. Some will probably get mad. That’s OK.

Just between you and I more than once only means twice. In addition there is no stipulation about what to do with the information. The volt reading might be 4v and a no crash flight made.

My one vote will not disallow a member. Safety awareness will go up. Maybe older members will begin to think seriously about their own flight preparation. But maybe there will be a lot of hate mail. We’ll see. Maybe new members will have a tool to make a good decision before multiple crashes. Maybe the learning process will occur sooner than normal.

Maybe the “couple of questions” were already considered in the carefully couched original statement.