There was an article a couple of years ago in one of the magazine that went into the specifics and math of all of this...

The bottom line is that medium engines up BENEFIT from both a LOWER OIL and LOWER NITRO content.... ( assuming you do not live at a high altitude where the extra Nitro helps ) than what is commonly espoused.

e.g. 15% oil and 5% Nitro is great for a .90+ sized two stroker...

While for smaller say sub .32 sized engines higher oil and 15%+ nitro is very beneficial for both cooling and power.

The article talked about how as you go up in displacement, the effective area that needs oiling does not rise proportionally, nor do the cooling needs...
The lower oil content acts to provide more "useful" fuel to the engine increasing power.

15% Nitro and 18% oil is merely a median figure meant to cover the greatest range of engines... 2 strokers through four strokers...

Since it is so often touted, everyone seems to have adopted this as gospel for ALL engines....

That article made me a convert... I now run 5% nitro on all of my .60's and above without a single problem.

At a LHS I saw 15% for $23.00/gallon and 5% for 15.00/gallon so the difference is substantial.

I pay $14.00 to $15.00 for 15% nitro 18% blended oil, it's what I run in everything from 1/2A to 1.40, one fuel for everything. The Castor Synthitc thing has been done to death but if anyone thinks a couple of %s of Castor in the mix will save an engine in a lean run then by all means buy fuel with blended oil. Or you can use full synthitc and don't run your engines lean. It's a choice thing and I won't even state how many years I have been running glow engines. That has been dne to death too.

Here I pay $23 a gallon no matter what fuel it is, so it's a wash

I think the company that took over Power Master is located in Texas, you can look it up on the web site. We had one club member that would go by there plant when it was in Ca. and haul a trailer behind his truck. He would get a super deal on buying a pallet or two then sell it case lot to the club members. That way we were getting it for $13.00 a gallon. During the gas price hike a few years back our price went up to $14.00. You can see if you can work out a deal like that to get the price down or a club price. What I do now is wait for Hobby People to have there sales, sometimes it gets very low but the norm is $15.00 on sale. Same for Wild Cat fuel. Both 15% nitro. There 20/20 is about $20.00 on sale.

you forgot about the trots caused by the castor oil,,,hehe,,,the nome roterys had full throttle only and killed all cylinnders to slow down. i spent time at cole paylens airdrome yers ago,,,cole used some original nomes back then.

I mix my own fuel and use 10% nitro, 18% coolpower. I use that in 2 and 4 strokes, OS, Saito and ASP. They all seem to run well on that combination for me.

Also consider your approach for after run oil. Myself, I squirt a generous dose of WD40 in the cylinder (remove the plug first) and then turn the motor over a few times to be sure it gets into the crankcase. (I suspect this will start a whole additional debate).

My oldest motor is 3 years old and has had about 150 flights with no bearing problems. They start easy and run well.

Conspiracy? No. Marketing 101? yes. Study some texts on marketing and merchandising some time. You'd be amazed at the simple ploys that work on customers to get them to spend more than they really need to.

<font size="4">I've been flying for over 50 yrs. Used everything from white gas and 90 weight oil to the modern fuels offered today.
I now use only (Saito) 4-stroke engines from .91 to 1.25 and run 30% nitro exclusively in all of them. I add NO xtra oil to the commercial fuel I buy. My engines run like they did when NIB. And they have lots of hours on them!
The commercial outfit that sells my engines (GP) says they run 30% fuel in all the engines they sell. Good 'nuff for them, good 'nuff for me.
When (and if) any of my engines start to give up the ghost (hard to start .. loss of power .. etc.) and do this before they should (at an early stage of their useful life), then I'll look for something else to use.
BUT since I've been doing this for sooooo long, I'll probably die before having to change.
Best thing about this hobby is  .. do what works best for YOU!
Now .. let's go flying.</font>

Try running 5% through your Saitos....

Unless you live at a high altitude, you'll be impressed by the LACK of changes to the engine's performance.

And the money you save is your own.

I run 5% on my .90 & up four strokers.

Cutaway- I do have some retail experience and know about selling up. I worked in jewelry for a while, which is 100% about getting the customer to buy the biggest thing you can finance for him. I just don't care for the hobby shops being characterized as dishonest because they sold the customer a better item that he could have gotten by with.

I DO live at a high altitude (34-3500 feet.

somehow, this got off track guys. i never said i cared about the money i put out for the fuel, i just wanted to avoid some of the mess. and, as for what the LHS gave me, if it is what works for my engine on break-in, or if its the universal ratio for break-in, so be it. they know worlds more about the hobby than i do, so i follow and try to learn from them.  i just wanted to know if i needed to or could change my fuel if i wanted to, to reduce mess. sorry for sparking a discussion everyone.

Oh you'll learn that there are few topics that will always cause a spirited discussion among the RCU crowd. To answer you questions, your fuel is fine and changing won't eliminate the mess. Welcome to the hobby.

Hi!
In Europe it's very common to use 10-15% all synthetic oil with 5-10% nitro for all glow engines (except small COX engines).
The syntethic oils we use are: Aerosynth or Aerosave by Fuchs (German company) and Motul "Micro" by French company.

In the US, Klotz is a very common brand .
Thechniplate (synthetic) or Benol (Castor oil) are the name of their oils.

thanks jester. i dont mind the discussion, i like reading them and learning what i can, so the next time i go to my LHS, i feel a little more informed when i pick up some fuel. i hate walking in there and feeling so uneducated, even though i know you learn by going and asking questions. also, ive heard asp engines are a bit fussy, so i wanted to make sure i was running the correct fuel. im just learning so the last thing i need is an engine dieing on me while im learning to fly because i wasnt running the right fuel for the engine.

tlojak38: S&W Fuels is in northeastern PA, specifically Tatamy, PA.

Stan sells just about any blend as you can see by their price list.

I typically buy 15% Nitro by the case (four gallons to a case). Last year, I paid around $13.00 per gallon by the case, and I bought two cases of the stuff. It's as good as any, and better than some. Here at our club, because the LHS (RIP) carried it, we pretty much bought it from him. When he went away, well, we had to get it somehow. The closest drive-to LHS was about an hour away and we were paying those over $20 per gallon prices.

The Salem, NJ club does a buy about twice a year, and we usually try to get in on the buy. They go out to S&W with a truck and buy it by the case. Some buy it by the 55 gallon drum then split it up among themselves, which is definitely the cheapest way to get it.

Here is his web site: http://www.s-whobby.com/

This link will take you to their newly designed web site where they combined their lubrication division with their fuel division and the price list is shown.

CGr

Beware of LHS attendants, some of them dont know as much as they should about planes. Maybe they know about cars or boats.
The one I go to there are two guys, one of them knows a lot, the other told me the other day I needed to change the other rudder servo. What????

At least he didn't say "you gotta change the nudder rudder servo"

CGr.

That's high?

Try the lower nitro on your Saito.

It's high if you consider it's basically desert country. Like in FLAT .. lol.

Lubbock, TX islocated inthe "high plains" desert of northwest TX.

I did use 5% nitro as well as 10 .. 15 .. 20 (20-20). If I point my Ultimate bipe (Saito 125) straight up, it will continue until I "stick it" in another direction.
All of my new models must be able to do three consective rolls while going straight up. If it won't do that easily,I consider it underpowered. Then .. bigger engine and more nitro. <g></g>

Also need to mention we routinely fly in 15-20 mph winds in 90+ temps at this time of yrand untill late fall. 0-5 mph is a cause for major celebration. And everyone in town shows up to fly. There will be 20-30 cars at the field.

Ourmost used flyingfield used to be a heliport used by (the former ..now closed) Reese Air Force base. Nice, long 700'x 100' runway. We (our club .. Wings MAS) officially have a flying field outside of Abernathy, TX at Abernathy airport. Nice runway there also, but an 80 mile roundtrip from Lubbock. All of our official contests are held at Abernathy. We get a great turnout every yr. at out Warbird contest. We also have a couple of "ya'll come" weekends and invite several modeling communities to come on be and just fly-for-fun. Always a great turnout then also.

Hmmm .. got off the change fuel comments. Sorry!

Quikjr1 aka Jerry

Going back to the OP's original questions, first the oil mess. You're stuck with it because it's inherent in an engine that the oil has to pass through it without getting burnt inside. Reducing oil content by a few percent only makes a miniscule difference to the amount that will collect on the model. Synthetics are easier to wipe off but they're far less tolerant of an incorrect (too lean) mixture setting. Castor is harder to clean off because it's so sticky but it's also just as sticky inside the engine where it does its job. OK, that's way simplified but an indication of why castor is great stuff for lubrication.

As far as nitro content goes, so long as you don't use so much that the engine detonates then you can use whatever amount you like for running in or flying with. All engines (and I include even the little .049's) run perfectly well with zero nitro but nitro will add some extra power and possibly give a better idle. ASP engines tend to have a somewhat higher compression than most engines and that limits the amount of nitro they'll tolerate before detonating. It also means they'll handle zero or low nitro fuels better than some others. Anytime you change fuel types the engine must be retuned, even if you just change brands.

thanks so much downunder. ill try a lower nitro content. my idle is a little choppy, but i figured it was the nature of the engine. now i know asp doesnt like higher nitro. and i guess ill just put a deflector on and deal with the oil on the plane. wasnt looking to get rid of it all together, just cut it down a little. during breakin, i had a real mess all over the side of the plane! it needs fine tuned anyway, so ill run what i have left here, then go to what i want to try next. thanks for the suggestions everyone!</p>

I had been paying approx $21 or $22 or between $20 to $22 for 10% Nitro. Back in my country which is past, I used 80% methanol and 20% castor oil, no Nitro. Most of the engines specifications tell you which fuel to be used. I had been introduced to this hobby shop at Willis, TX by my Mentor.

http://www.newcreations-rc.com/

I was literally shocked to see either Morgan's Omega fuel or something I'd confirm it not the other one I used to buy from LHS, the price for 10% Nitro 1 Gallon with Tax is $15.30 and I was like glowing like a glow plug wow, I can buy this and save up to $5 to 6$ easily, this fuel is sure a bang for the buck for me. Also you may get 3% discount if you pay cash.

Thank you Downunder... I was hoping you'd jump in here with your expertise on this subject.

Grieke's ( spelling? ) article said the same about nitro content.
He advocated going to higher nitro ( 15% ) on smaller engines as a means to help idle and low speed stability, be he echoed that it is not needed.


Armody

At the Toledo show this year, Wildcat was selling their 10% fuel for $11.00 a gallon and 15% for $13.00/ga.

I picked up 16 gallons of each when I discovered that.

opjose,

Unfortunately fuel is not shipped[:@], otherwise I would have paid you for addtional 2 gallons of 10% for me. Toledo is so far from TX, 10% Nitro for $11, I'm drooling can you ship it to me if it can be done as I was told fuel is not shipped, or can you tell me the shipping charges, if I want 2 gallons of it Can I get it?