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To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

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To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

Old 01-29-2012, 06:10 PM
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frogwalking
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Default To flap or not to Flap. That is the question



I have a nice big package of wood, mostly that is said to be buildable into a Telemaster 40 electric. I jumped in, sort of like the woman who buys her new outfit two sizes too small to provide encouragement to lose 20 pounds. I bought radio, motor and all so it will hurt if I do not follow through. I have built many airplanes since ny 14th birthday, nearly 50 years ago, but few flew without a control line attached, or a rubber motor. I could never afford the control system.I have decided time is wasting and it is now or never. My question is, should I invest install the operating flaps, or leave them fixed and save the weight? I saw one build where they sawed holes in the solid control surfaces to lighten up the structure. Is that a good idea, since they will be covered anyway it might be. I am getting my crash testing in with a RC flight simulator so hopefully my thumbs will have some memory when the big moment comes. I hope to have an experienced pilot check it out, fly and trim it the first flight, then stand by to grab the transmitter if necesary.

Thanks for the input.

Frog.

Old 01-29-2012, 06:35 PM
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thebest_102
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

I would suggest you investigate the option of using a buddy box as opposed to swapping the TX. I tried to swap once and hated it as a student due to the fact the Training guy had to take his eyes off the plane to swap and thwn reacquire the plane. Those precious seconds are better used to recover the plane. With a buddy box the controls are moved from one to the other without the need to look around or pass the TX. PLease look at using a buddy box and cord. Your airframe will thank you.
Old 01-29-2012, 09:37 PM
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cutaway
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

Telemasters are lightly loaded to begin with unless someone really got unlucky and got a kit full of 24lb cu/ft iron wood. They really have no actual operational need for flaps. Some people put them on so they can really slow the thing down to almost a walking pace for demos and the pure novelty of it.
Old 01-29-2012, 09:52 PM
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JohnBuckner
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

Hey Frog welcome to the passion of flying RC, but I won,t say welcome back to the joy of building or flying controlline since you probably never really stopped.

I am a fellow old Ukie dude who never could completely stop and still am active along with the RC.

OK first things first your choice of airplanes or a trainer is superb, that one along with the Senior Kaydet or the Senior Telly are just about the greatest trainers ever. Heck I even built a Senior Telly with six .25's on it.

Regarding flaps. It sounds like you are talking of dedicated flaps rather than flaperons which in itself is fine and somewhat more desirable than flaperons for safety and control reasons but they are still flaps. They will buy you virtually nothing and in the training environment just cause a lot of wasted (destroyed) airplanes when the fellows should be concentrating on flying.

Flaps are always one of the earliest things the fellows want but it is a complete waste of time in the training evironment that will actually increse the time to learn.

Now to your last paragraph I would highly recommend you forget all thoughts of just having someone do a trim flight and then you just going for it (especially playing grab the box). You are just asking to loose the airplane if you do.

Find your local club and find a mentor (Oh, OK I will say the ugly word - instructor). You will be glad you did.

John
Old 01-29-2012, 09:56 PM
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Bozarth
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

Read John's post, then re-read it over and over and stick to it. John is dead-on.

Kurt
Old 01-30-2012, 09:45 AM
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richrd
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

+2 on John

i learned on a tele with box very good first plane no flaps its the first plane every spring. then on to the rest nine years now.

rich
Old 01-30-2012, 09:58 AM
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Rodney
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

What John said, he gave you some excellent advice.
Old 01-30-2012, 04:35 PM
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gofast53
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

I built same sized plane a few years ago (only just sold it) but went for flaps. Initially I had them taped up but I should got bored with flying and so connected them for a play. I figured that it would be easier to build them into the plane during construction rather than making a mess of the wing later on. From my experience found that flaps not required for this particular model but also that they are alot of fun when theres abit of wind.
Old 01-31-2012, 09:10 AM
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JPMacG
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

I will second (third, fourth?) the recommendation to start with a buddy box rather than passing the transmitter. Passing a transmitter does not work well. The instructor needs to be able to respond very quickly to a bad situation and passing the box is sometimes not fast enough. I have seen several crashes happen when passing transmitters. I have never seen a buddy box crash, other than from a mechanical or electronic failure.

I also got started in control line when I was a kid. In my 20s I took up full scale, got my license, and accumulated about 300 hours. I thought that with my prior experience in CL and full scale, RC would be easy. I was very wrong! I learned on a buddy box and my instructor had to take over control countless times. I would have likely gone through several trainer airplanes if we were passing a transmitter.
Old 02-02-2012, 03:29 PM
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frogwalking
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

Thanks folks.  There is a model flying field just west of Lynchburg, VA.  I will check it out and find out if they have a buddy box.  I am probably going to retire before I finish the Telemaster and will likely move  back home.  (I am a construction engineer.)  Thanks about the flaps too.  I thought they were superfluous.
Old 02-03-2012, 08:16 AM
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

Hi!
Flaps on a trainer is not needed! ...or wanted for that matter!
Especially on such lightly loaded plane as a Telemaster flaps are just not needed! They will only be troublesome if you install them and are newbie!
For someone who can fly... Yes! But not for a newbie!!!!
Old 02-03-2012, 11:46 AM
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N52961
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Default RE: To flap or not to Flap. That is the question

Frog:

<o></o>

A TeleMaster is a real floater of a plane. Flaps will look cool but:

1 – Are your skill sets good enough to take your hands off the controls and operate the flaps?

2 – Are you planning on using a VARIABLE flap or a STEP SWITCH flap or a ONE POSITION switch flap?

3 – Flaps other than looking cool – Which YOU will be staring at trying to see how cool they LQQK, DON’T CRASH – Fly the Plane.

4 – Cutting holes – Know as LIGHTING HOLES [as in light weight] is acceptable BUT – QA TeleMaster is light in weight to begin with. Either way would work. The extra weight of the servo or servos is very minor. Personal opinion here: I feel a heavy TeleMaster is a better flyer. They FLOAT too much.

5 – Since you are building time on a Simulator I gather you are low in experience. I reflect back to item #1. And would say – Scrap the idea of flaps. OR build them in now but DO NOT USE THEM until the skill level is beyond SOLO … And watch the plane, not the flaps.

<o></o>

I have a lot of stick time teaching with TeleMasters’ – They are a learning plane – Float like crazy – Land VERY slow. So slow it makes landing a little difficult. Why? Because beginners Flair HIGH, and do not pull the nose up high enough to get the wing to stall. Flaps only make LEARNING harder.

<o></o>

Barry


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