Originally Posted by Greybeard1

About gyro / stabeliser (not the same thing) assisted planes: they have their place.. they are confidence inspiring.. But if one thinks he / she can fly after flying those.. He/she would be wrong.

My feeling is, they build a dependence faster than confidence, and that has to be broken before they can move on. Planes, for the most part, fly just about the same, it's just if you can keep your mind two mistakes ahead of your aircraft. Being dependent on some gadget won't build that.

About the 'you have to build, to be able to fly'.. Hmm I think it can help in understanding what is going on.. It would surely help in finding sollutions in pour performance.. But 'have to'.. Nope.. I know a few incredibly good pilots that can hardly install a control-link..

Agreed, But those that build can just look at a model, know it's going to fly badly, and don't have to think what has to be done to cure it. Theirs will rarely leave the ground with inherent problems, I don't know any builder that doesn't check and recheck while he's building, and won't have those problems. That's saying nothing for how we learned, nobody makes a plane that doesn't have at least one mistake. One with a little experience will have seen and corrected the mistakes in the building process. It just becomes an automatic part of the process, although it might be said to be the hard way. The easy way is to ask an experience builder, "What's wrong with this damned thing?" You might get and answer, or if he's a jerk, he'll say he doesn't know and not even look at it. You can't buy experience, you have to earn it.

Rich.

Originally Posted by GBLynden

Tell me, what are your thoughts on training wheels on a bicycle? Also, do kids have to master putting a bike together and repairing it before they are able to ride one?

GB

Originally Posted by GBLynden

Also, do you think a basic high wing three-channel RC airplane with no SAFE or AS3X is a toy gadget?

Your move....

Originally Posted by DutchRC

This is a bit besides the point of this topic.. but in my humble opinion model airplanes are allmost Allways toys. If you're not generating income with them.. And you don't use them in any way to gather food.. The model airplane is 100% a 'for fun'. Offcourse.. some UAV's are used professionally, or militairy.. In all other instances.. It's a toy..

There is nothing wrong with having fun with models by the way (imho)

Originally Posted by Greybeard1

But there is something wrong with considering something that can have many more times the energy of a 45 caliber weapon, a toy. These are not toys, they have the potential to cause fatalities if not flown keeping that in mind. Flying without that in mind, if it's what you do, I would consider gross negligence. A five pound model, not unusual, traveling at 60mph, also not unusual, gives 26400 fi/lb per minute, or 440 ft/lb per second. Look up some ammunition specs, we're far above most of it. This is not a toy, doesn't matter what it's made out of, still not a toy.

Originally Posted by rcflyertim

Here is my take on recommendations for a beginner:

Based on the OP comments I can conclude that after 30+ yrs of flying and teaching students to fly the bottom line is - What is the goal of the student ( not the teacher). Some people just like learning things on their own. It may cost them more money in the end to do so, but they enjoy the learning process and it is what drives them to try new things. We would not have new things invented if it were not for people like this. These individuals are what makes great engineers, scientist, and product developers.

If the Goal of the student is just to satisfy a curiosity, then a beginner airplane for $100 is fine. It will not teach all of the concepts but it can lay a foundation to advance on if the interest is peaked. A lot of these RTF airplanes can be taken out of the box and flown by a novice. The results will be varied based on knowledge, eye/hand coordination, and the ability to learn from your mistakes.

If the Goal of the student it to learn basic control of a R/C airplane and to fly successfully on their own, then a more advance trainer would be recommended. The RTF for around $150- $250 can do the job successfully. Some of these have built-in self correcting capabilities with sensors and gyros that aid in the success.

BUT if the goal is to be a proficient pilot that can do pattern maneuvers or 3D stunts then I would recommend that student start off with a more elaborate trainer that can be converted to flying aerobatics. Those area typically going to start around $250 and up. These cost more but certainty allow for additional trainer on advance aerobatics rather than just flying around in circles! There are those that have taught themselves to fly on these types of trainers as well.


Again, its all about the GOAL of the student. If they seek out advice then that is a good indication that they want to learn to fly. But their interest may not be yours! They may care less if it cost them a few planes to learn. Some just need to hear encouraging words that a better option is to learn with an experience pilot. It is so much better when they do. They learn a lot about flying from experience of others. The chances of failure or discouragement is lower. The costly repairs are lower and down time for repairs as well.

BUT just remember. We are all unique. We know what works for us may not work for someone else. If we meet the students goals then mission accomplished!