robertbb99

I am 54 and I wanted to learn to fly. I hung around the local public field and saw flyers from guys that offered lessons. I asked around about these guys but found out they were crummy teachers. They showed you how to get up in the air but did not teach the students about the WHY of what control inputs you used, luckily I understand the theory of flight and what the control surfaces do. I was also told that these self promoted instructors crash a lot of the newbies planes and conveniently blame the new pilot.

I asked at a LHS and was told to join a club and they usually will teach you how to fly. I joined the biggest club in my area. I asked the guy in charge of training if he could schedule me for lessons. I was told show up at the field about 11 am, first come first serve. I was there at 8 am to watch people fly and to make sure I was first. Of course the guy did not seem real enthusiastic, but when some junior members showed up, he came to life and basically "bumped" me and took the kids up. After a few weekends of this I gave up. It seems that if a kid shows up at the field, people trip over each other to get the job of teaching the kid to fly (even more so for the female members we have), but have no time for me. I have other hobbies but unfortunately I have never met so many grumpy and cliquish people in my life.

I understand that many of the guys at the field and in the club have known and flown with each other for 30 or more years but jeeze, when I was a kid and wanted to get into the hobby I did not have any money and my parents were lucky to feed us let alone buy hobby supplies. Now as an adult who can afford the hobby, I can't get the time of day from my own club members and guys who call themselves "flight instructors" for hire are some of the worst pilots I have seen so far. No wonder this hobby is dying. I tried to teach myself with a real cheap park flyer in a warehouse but I know taking off with one of these tiny things is much different than say a .40 trainer. I assume that there is more to it than throttle and elevator but I don't want to risk injuring someone if I lose control or be the guy who takes off long enough to get high enough to nose dive into the ground. I guess I will have to go back to my trains and sail boats.

MajorTomski

Robert sorry for your sad experiences. I am an Aero engineer, multi engine pilot and an A&P mechanic. I've been teaching RC for 18 years now, and guess what? If you took a lesson from me you wouldn't learn any aerodynamics either.

I learned long ago that the best way to keep a newbie in the hobby was not to boar them to death with useless details. We, very successfully teach a very mechanical system of getting the student in the air with his own plane and get it back down on the ground in one piece as quickly as possible. THEN we can go on to more advanced detailed issues, IF the student is interested.

May I suggest you find (if you can) the latest version of the E-Flite apprentice with the SAFE technology.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1897358

I have witnessed two total newbies take off, fly and land in one piece without any other instruction except for what comes in the box. It may just put instructors out of business.

Better luck this time

Tom

bob8619

I dont know how "big" the club is you speak of but personally If I were you and there are any other clubs around that are smaller, I would join that. Nothing worse than having to take turns with 50 people. Thats just me though, I like to fly first, fellowship is second. Anyway, sorry for your bad experiences so far but don't let some bad apples ruin it for you, its too much fun once you get going!

hacker8675309

This video might help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAowc9Y_vL8

robertbb99

Thanks for the replies. The club I belong to has about 300 members and we fly at a public field which has a main runway, a park flyer area, a heli area, a control line area, and a free flight and rubber power area. There are a lot of people flying at anytime, just have to wait sometimes. I have the Real Flight G5 but I find it hard to use due to the fact that it is hard to judge the depth perception so it is hard to line up with the runway. There is also a group of guys that fly at the field, I call them the aerial bullies. They seem to wait for a newby to go aloft and then they all take their overpowered warbirds and buzz the poor pilot... many times causing them to crash by scaring them. If I knew how to fly, I would build the equivalent of a flying tank and ram those morons planes, let them see what it is like.

ATVAlliance

Sounds like a club Im glad Im not a member of.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I wish you were closer to me, I'd be glad to teach you. The majority of my students are middle aged to retired. But I think your commute would be a bit far. All I can say is keep looking. The new Apprentice 15e with flight stabilizer is a good idea. I generally try to discourage people learning on their own, but sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do. I ran into the a similar scenario as you when starting and taught myself to fly, it was expensive and took a long time. Towards the end though, I meet good instructor that buddy boxed me a couple of times to correct a few bad habits and I was off and running. You might have to drive a ways.
Edwin

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

I believe I know which field you are talking about and it is I believe the busiest field in the country. With no AMA required and possible you will hear a dozen different languages on the flight line at an given time on a weedend. I flew there back in 1970 but very busy even then.

Do not dismiss those first dedicated fellows you mentioned that teach all the time and may not be affiliated with the local club, at least talk to the them. Also go to I think the its Robbins hobby shop in Glendale and ask about the porti poti pilots club that they run and its been a few years now but have their own field and a good one in Sylmar that may still be going its worth a shot.

John

bob8619

Yeah 300 is way too many in my opinion. Even if they were all nice people I would run away.

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

Where do you live? Oh Republic of California, that explains a lot.
that club sucks and it is in no way a reflection of all the other clubs in the USA.
we, for the most part are helpful people, we want you to succeed and grow.
Im 54 now but learn only 4 yrs ago, it's true that kids learn faster than us but it can be done.
Find a smaller club with a training program, if your budget permits there is a flying school, I think in Arizona that will make you fly solo in 1 week.
Welcome and don't let those bozos intimidate you

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

I'm glad you took the time to publish your story for others to see and relate too. Your not alone and I empathize with you since I have been there myself. Our hobby is composed of all types of personalities and roadblocks. The biggest obstacle when joining any organized activity is the clique. The clique will either accept you or reject you and it is all based upon experience and your personality. Use the club locator on this site and shop around.

jester_s1

You may not want to bother with it, but I would send an email or a letter to the club president and cc the chief instructor about your experience. My club is very outgoing and very willing to help a newbie, but there are a couple of older instructors who will do exactly as you described- ignore an adult pilot who should be next in line in order to work with a kid. They way they see it, it's their trainer plane and their time so they can use it to work with the student they want to. I think that's the wrong attitude to take, but they aren't going to change. So if a new pilot were to work with one of those guys first, he would get the wrong idea about our club. I'm a believer in giving a club a chance to show you what's good about them.

rcjetflyer0718-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

You fly at Apollo Field ? I know its a real zoo out there; but looking at your previous posts, you been going there for four years. You knew what the situation was and you waited that long to learn? There are other clubs - sites in the area that is not as stressful, Whittier Narrows is bad but not as bad as Sepulvada Basin. How about the Sierra Madre Club? If you go a little further Antelope Valley Tailwinds or Pomona Valley? I fly with Pomona club at their San Bernardino site its hardly ever crowded. We have an instructor who take you up on the club trainer and you can make appointments to meet, most of his students are older. We do have 400 ft restriction and 80" wingspan restriction

BobFE

Sometimes people forget this is a hobby and all of us are there to have fun. I've belonged to 3 clubs in my life and in all three most everyone were good people. There were a few that seemed to live on drama, but most were just there to have fun and understood that by sharing that fun, everyone could have even more fun. Like everyone else has said, find a different club. Shouldn't be too hard in your area. Check out the AMA website, they should have a listing of clubs in your area.

carl24bpool

I'd say go it alone and have fun like I have but technically I haven't gone alone ass my friend is also self teaching with me. Its just our own little club but nobody knows much and theres nobody to help. you do have someone to help pick up bits of wood and dig up engines though!!

Seriously though I do think that self teaching can be fun if you have a buddy to go with. I don't think I'd like flying without my mate as I see it as a social thing.

Perhaps find another like minded person to fly with?

I can;t imagine I'd of managed to go straight to flying a 40 nitro without a buddy with me to trim the controls.

If you do fly a nitro on your own just do everything you can to give yourself the best chance possible to succeed. Play a lot of simulator until you can land time after time without crashing. Personally I found real flight easier (except trimming) because you have better vision and see things much better. Just make sure your engine isn't going to die and get high up!

Alll the best what ever you do.

Let us know how you get on bud.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I grew up in the Valley too and was flying my control lines and free flights at the dam basin in the late 50s and 60s. There were a lot of people out there back then, I'm sure it's a total zoo these days. When I teach I never get into the dynamics either, at first you don't need to know but as the student progresses these things start to come up without the student getting bogged down with info, they just learn how to fly the plane. I also have an old flight sim I loan them so they can practice at home on there computer. I give certain things I want them to do so it will relate to learning to fly. While you are learning you can also read books and discover a lot on your own.
You can go to a club meeting and stand up and ask for an instructor. I don't belong to any club these days and fly on a lake bed that is open to anyone, there are several of us that teach. Most of us even have our own trainers and buddy boxes to teach with. Only thing I ever ask is the student buys there own fuel. Other then that I don't want a student to ever buy anything until after they solo.
I'm sure there will be several people like myself in your club, you just haven't met them yet.

BobFE

Carl, I do understand why you did not go the club route and I agree with your thought process for your situation. I do think the best way, though, to learn is to have an experienced instructor teach you. As a new pilot you can progress much faster when you have someone on a buddy box that can take over when you make those stupid mistakes that everyone does. Also that person can see what you are doing wrong and show you the right way. I remember when I was teaching my son. He always over controlled in turns. I saw he would make his roll input to the controller, and when the plane didn't react fast enough for him he would put in more roll. I broke him of this by telling him to count to 3 slowly before he could put in another input after the first. This smoothed out his turns and eventually it became habbit for him. Without me there recovering the plane when he rolled it over on its back, and me showing him the delay he would have had many "OH SH@#$" and frantic struggles to recover the plane, and probably a few crashes. Instead his progression was faster, and he had someone with knowledge giving him advice. This is the benefit of a club. You have done well with your self-taught method, and I applaud you! Just remember, you can beat the hands on experience you gain when someone is showing you how to do something rather than learning on your own.

carl24bpool

I agree bob.

I don't think the OP has a club he wants to use though.

one thing about self teaching is that you have to learn fast or it becomes costly. I've had probably 15 tanks of fuel in the air and only lost one plane and that was down to stupidity and flying inverted low down.

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

Absolutely no. The only safe way to learn to drive a car is with an instructor. The only way to safely fly a RC plane is with an instructor. He lives in an area with at least 50 clubs, it is a densly populated area. Im sure he can find a kind heart instructor. You teach what you know...........

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

Not to mention the friendship. Friends have common interests, most of my friends now are fellow RC pilots.We hang out at the fields, we make improvements, we share tools and trade airplanes.We cry together when one moves out of town and party together.My plummer is a fellow RC pilot, such is my mechanic.It is a wonderful lifestyle.Our friend Carl made a wrong choice in spite of our advise, now he is trying to convince others to go also go against traffic.

robertbb99

At one time I was in 3 different clubs, a free flight rubber band powered club, a glider club, and a general club that catered to everything that flies. Got bored with the rubber band powered stuff, they flew for a min or two and there is no control once you release them. The glider club I was in had a few members but most of them were really old. I was learning from a couple of guys but as I was learning the basics the club pretty much disbanded due to members dying or having serious health issues. The ones that remained were basically formed teams so they could work on their LSF (League of Silent Flight) levels or to compete. The general club is the only one I am still a member of but I have not been to the field or a meeting in almost a year now. I saw an ad for a school in Wisconsin (or there abouts) that I may take a couple of weeks of vacation and go see some family in the area and take the course.

I find it strange how many of the hobbyist act, I used to be in a car club and used to show my Mopar and my Stang. If we were at a show and someone asked any of us about our cars (or showed any interest in it for that matter) we would talk your ear off if you let us. When I went to the model field during an event, I would see some really nice planes but when I tried to engage the owner in some conversation I was treated like I was the IRS trying to audit them... but when a girl asked a question they were Johnny on the spot (though I cant blame them). I guess I just unintentionally bring out the worst in people. I have been a builder for years but never flew anything I built, I used to just give them away or sell them super cheap to make room (I sold the planes without motors or any of the other stuff needed to fly them). I still love to build. I am currently starting to build a Lockheed Constellation, she will have a wing span of about 144 inches. Debating on whether to go electric or fuel but that decision is a long ways off. I am also vacillating between finishing her in TWA or MAC colors but that too is a long way down the road.

kraldmark

i have entered into a club, and i like to fly the airplane with my friends,we can talk about the skills together, and since i'm a beginner, many of the old players like to help me and teach me some good tips. that's really great.

thepamster

I think that is a bad analogy and I disagree with that. It is always better to learn by an instructor but if you can't and wish to teach yourself it is possible and can be safe. I always recommend a powered glider as they basically fly themselves and are easy to see also.
I will agree that if there are that many clubs in the op's area surely he could find one that could help.

Stormrider51

I live in a rural area with few instructors and no formal club. I made contact with the local instructor recommended by the LHS but could never seem to match our schedules and weather conditions. This went on for two+ weeks. I had also purchased an Apprentice 15e (not the newer one with the SAFE technology), a Spektrum DX6i transmitter, and a Phoenix 4 simulator. Being retired with plenty of time on my hands and having no instructor, I started "flying" the Apprentice on the simulator. I established a structured program where I flew the plane in ideal weather conditions and gradually increased the winds, gusts, and cross winds. I flew it a lot. After a couple of weeks I decided to go fly the real model. I got a more experienced friend to check the plane out and then went out on a Sunday evening long after all the other fliers had left and took the Apprentice up. Was it exactly like the sim? No, but it was close. The training in stick movements from the sim was good and I was able to get the plane off the ground, fly it around, and land in one piece. I did it repeatedly. That was my only goal. No aerobatics. No fancy stuff. Just get the plane up, fly the pattern, and land. That was a couple of months ago. I've since added a good many flights on the Apprentice and learned to do basic aerobatic maneuvers. I'm comfortable with the plane now. I've added a couple of 3 channel micros and love flying them.

My point is that those who say there is no other way than getting an instructor are simply out of date. An instructor can make things easier but any of the top of the line simulators can get you started as long as you use a structured plan of increasing difficulty and challenge. It requires self-discipline and a willingness to take things one step at a time. That may be tough in this era of instant gratification but it's certainly cheaper than crashing multiple planes trying to teach yourself. Don't give up. It can be done.

Storm

carl24bpool

Not true at all and as said, totally out of date.

There are simulators and slow flying planes available. Some even have auto pilot assists that keep your plane level and virtually fly for you.

I agree you won't learn the specifics of manoeuvres but YouTube is a great reference for this.

clubs aren't for everyone and the OP should have all the information to make his own choice. If he wants to go alone it can be done but I think it's a hobby to share with friends. I don't go flying much on my own as my friend is also self teaching. It's a nice social thing and an interest to share with someone. Like golf really which I also play.