spokman

My Feedback: (2)

Since I know a little about drinking I just thought I would put in my 2 cents. First off, thank goodness the AMA prohibits drinking to be insured! Drinking has no place at an air field where people are flying. One it is a safety hazard as you are controling a projectile in the air but that is secondary to the social problems it introduces. If someone at your field is a jerk when they are not drinking think about putting a couple of beers into them? How many problems have you had or seen with other people who have been drinking in social setting with aquaintances? Fights, arguments, rude behaviour. Then there is the person drinking who won't put up with that rude behaviour. : ) So fists fly. Drinking has no place at a public club.

redbirdy

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I can halfway understand fears of an out of control pilot that has his confidence bolstered by a few drinks, but brawls at the airfield- C'mon.
Are they going be breaking airplanes over each other's heads like beer bottles in bar room brawls in the movies. Maybe they will play chicken with their aircraft - the first one to get out of the way must shotgun a beer through the muffler. Geez

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

Just to prove that some think they are 'above all this':

For you 'southern folk' who rarely (if ever!) see snow...
Here in Montreal, Quebec Canada, we generally use 'road repair and building equipment' to clear the mounds of snow we get on the streets. This particular guy was clearing snow, driving a 'grader' (Six wheel monster, with a blade underneath) they drive up and down streets pushing teh accumulated snow off to one side.

Turns out, he and his co-worker were 'getting into the christmas spirit' while working..

(taken from the Montreal gazette: http://www.canada.com/montreal/story...6-31B3C2AB385D)


City fires worker accused of drunk plowing


Canadian Press

MONTREAL-A city worker accused of driving his snowplow into a minivan while drunk has been fired.

City councillors in the borough of Ville Marie voted to fire the worker at their weekly meeting on Tuesday night.

Spokeswoman Sandrine Brindejonc said the decision was made after the borough received a report on the incident, which happened December 20.

Another city worker arrested in the same incident has been charged with obstructing justice after he allegedly tried to hide beer bottles.

The incident happened in the city's east end when a grader clearing snow rear-ended a minivan driven by a man who had his granddaughter in the vehicle. There were no injuries.

The fired worker is expected in court next month along with the other city worked arrested in the incident.

jrpnde

In addition to all the many good reasons to not drink any booze if you're planning to fly there is one more. I live in Upstate New York. This state is one that has lowered the max. blood/alcohol level to 0.08 for drivers. Not always but most of the time flyers drive themselves to and from the field. A seasoned drinker is not drunk at .08 but the law is so strictly enforced with police checkpoints, etc. that any sensible person driving doesn't even want to walk the fine line whether they're over the limit. Stay away from those drinking flyers and hope they don't drive the same roads as you on the way home.

gus

Aha .... finally, someone (other than me) has finally made sense! People "over the limit" should not be driving.....

So, I know (since I used to have access to a breathaliser in my 'varsity days) that I can quite happily have 2 beers and still be far under (at least 0.02....). That means I can have one beer at alunch, and one at the field afterwards, and still drive myself home quite safely.

I guess if the cops (and society) think it is ok to pilot my not-quite-ballistic motor-car safely then it is quite OK to fly a 10lb model as well.

Still have not heard a reasonable reason why a beer before flying is such an evil malicious unsafe sin! All I have heard is that too much of a good things i not good!

gus

aerobatixkid

Drunker the better I find, that way it don't hurt when you get your fingers chopped off.


-shane

Live Wire

There are better threads I drink Mich I'm gone, but not while flying.
AND THIS IS NOT A BEGINNER'S TOPIC.

jrpnde

WOW....This post had "POWDER KEG" written all over it and all of us couldn't resist the urge to send a reply. But, with all the safety aspects of this hobby, I believe its good to hear what everyone's opinion on one that's controllable.
There's no sure way to eliminate every human error from anything. Booze, drugs, or other influences of diminished coordination don't fall into the same category as those such as incoordination, dyslexia, mental illness, or plain stupidy. The later are mostly uncontrolled by enforcement of rules.
I know some that could probably drink 10 or more beers and fly the pants off many others that have never had a drink or never would drink and fly. But....WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE AS TO WHO'S FIT TO BE ON THE FIELD???? Sobriety or physical tests at the field?? So many factors that can never be eliminated so why not eliminate the most obvious ones. I enjoy my cold beers as well as the next guy and would like to believe that some of the replies to this post are intended to be in humorous fun rather than as written as a resolute belief (Prophanger1....if you are serious....lety us pray).
If I had my own private pasture/acreage to fly around I may be tempted to throw an exhibition flying beer bash for my least liked acquaintances. As one here put it "if you drink enough it won't hurt as much when the prop chops your fingers off"...or something like that. Hope that guy stays in the cornfield in "CORNFIELD COUNTY".
JUST REMEMBER...SAFETY AND COMMON SENSE

Wingnut - inactive

Bingo.
Well I've been watching this post for a while now and I think I'll put my 2 cents in.
So, where do you draw the line, is there a clear line in the sand? is it black and white? no, thats why all these issues are discussed as they are.
Personally, I am under age, never had any alcoholic beverage, drugs, or anything of the sort. I am a home-schooled( I be home teached) person almost entering college. I see nothing wrong with drinking, I work in a bar, but I see everything wrong with substance abuse. I know that the average person can drink one 12 oz beer every 2 hrs, and never get drunk per say. but I also know some people who can drink 1 beer and their coordination just vanishes, although I do admit they are few.

Most people here are members of the AMA, if you are I would encourage you to read the Feb 2004 president's perspective in model aviation. In this article Dave Brown outlines some risks of this hobby and the direction it is taking, and asks the same question, where does one draw the line?

I have been flying for about a year, I learned on my Lt-40 I built, and then over the summer I built a spad(a fake plane, an incarnation of the derelict if anyone cares) and now I am working on my 2nd kit, a four-star 40.the other day I went to a friend's farm for a flight with my spad, which I occasionally do because this is a mile away instead of the clubs field(30 mi), It had been about 6 weeks since I'd flown last, and this particular day the wind was gusting up to 20-25 mph, and the temp was fourteen( with a windchill of like 1*) It was all I could do to keep the plane airborne flying in circles, much less do any aerobatics. I had 3 spectators(my friend, his brother, and my dad) After 1 6 min flight, I could hardly feel my hands( I was wearing gloves) and decided to call it quits. One flight, airplane came home in 2 pieces, no injuries, it was a good day. but what if? what if the wind caught the plane and turned it over, with the cold my fingers were not very nimble, and while it was only a 3 lb plane, traveling 60mph, it can do some major damage. If I had had enough alcohol in me to slow my reaction time by half a second, I could be responsible for the injury or death of one of 3 people I love. I am a pretty heavyset guy, and it would take a few beers to get my reaction time down that much, But I would NEVER! willfully put myself in a situation where I could harm someone/something that I could have prevented by temporarily sacrificing an indulgence.


The problem is that you can't draw the line, because this is a free country and somebody is always going to be unhappy, and it is their right to not be happy. It is also their right to voice their unhappiness, and gather support for their unhappiness. I am in no way saying this shouldn't't be a free country, far from it! I am just merely stating the fact that everyone has their own opinion, and rarely are everyone's opinions the same.

The press runs this country, and they love to get their hands on a nice juicy story about the dangers of this one thing and how it will end the world. The last thing we need as a special interest group is negative press coverage. If you were the average person(what i mean by that is non model airplane fanatic, you know the subhuman beings we share the world with fascist indeed!) reading the mourning paper what would you think if you read this headline: "Teenage boy dies after being struck by Model Airplane, alcohol is a suspected factor"?

All this sounds like I am this fanatic with non alcohol objectives. But I don't think alcohol is a bad thing, I just think it should be used carefully. I think A beer over lunch is OK as long as your done flying(use the time to socialize, thats 40% of the fun, building is 40%, and flying is 20%) Or wait until your done flying, at my field, alcohol is allowed after ALL flight operations are over( thats everyone, not just you).

I'll leave you all alone after I ask you to do one thing, please take into consideration the whole hobby, and what it's really about. Think about that for a minute before you go and ruin it for everybody because you did something you could have prevented with risk management, that doesn't apply to just beer, that applies to everything.

be right back, I gotta go put the soap box back in the closet. sorry for the long post.
grace 'n peace,
Kevin
P.S. I really didn't think about the drive home from the field, so just change that paragraph up there to "WAIT TILL YOU GET HOME". Again, this is my opinion, and most people will not even give it a second thought, if they even read it, but I think this issue is important enough to voice it clearly so someone might learn they shouldn't endanger anyone/anything like that.

aimmaintenance

OK we've hashed out all the opinions, beliefs, fears, facts, and fictions about drinkin and flyin.

What about drinkin and postin?

There has to be a safety issue here.

Poor posture. "scholiosis" (man I'll bet I spelled that wrong)

Improper typing. "carputunnel" (that too)

passing out at computer desk. "concussion"

Trying to focus on screen. "stygmatism"

Trying to proofread. "neurological break down"

Sittin here till you run out of beer. " sore *****"

FHHuber

Actually this is very much a beginner's topic.

The first thing we need to teach beginners is SAFETY. This is a safety issue. A person who has been drinking WILL have impared judgement. He will say things or do things he would consider STUPID when sober.

Tests have proven that even a little alcohol slows reaction time. OK, so YOU have lightning reflexes and YOU can still "safely" (in your opinion... not MINE) handle the model after one or two beers. There are plenty of people who CAN'T handle the model after 1/4 beer. (even the 3.2% stuff.)


Our society has a serious problem. TV and other influences are saying: "Its OK if you don't get caught." well... when you get caught you're gonna whine about it and not want to pay the penalty for it. TOO BAD.

Book him Dano.

Mike in DC

Yes, and it's called schizophrenia. Many prescription drugs slow your reactions as much as a can of beer will, yet, it's completely legal, healthy, wonderful, and nobody would ever suggest that a guy taking Valium shouldn't be flying. The idea that a person is drunk and saying stupid things after 1/4 of a can of beer is schizophrenic hysteria.

CafeenMan

First, people can and do get convicted for driving under the influence of certain psychotropic medications (mental health drugs). Second, there is no such thing as schizophrenic hysteria. Maybe there should be. Third, if he was schizophrenic, then valium would be the wrong medication. Valium is for people who have anxiety disorders. Fourth, If you believe that what FHHuber said is false, and if you are correct, that would not make him schizophrenic. It would simply make him wrong. Now if there was a preponderance of evidence to prove that he is wrong and he believed it anyway, then he would be delusional. However, the preponderance of evidence suggests that he is correct and that you are wrong.

Class dismissed.

beardking

My Feedback: (4)

Actually Mike in DC, if there isn't a rule at my field for people to not be flying while on Valium, I'd really like that to be changed (might have to look into that). I love beer. I love planes. I do not love beer and planes (unless I'm building, which could account for why it takes so long for me to build). Any responsible person should know that there is a time and a place for everything. Flying a 6-50 lb fuel propelled missile around other unsuspecting individuals, to me, does not equate to the perfect time to be throwing back a Bud. Now, I can agree with others that say that after the planes are up and the flying is over, drinking a beer or two should be fine. Of course, that brings up yet another problem. Now you have these guys that have had a couple (or a few) that have to climb into their 2000 lb fuel propelled "tanks" and get on the road with a bunch of unsuspecting passersby, which is something I have a serious problem with.

So, pretty much, overall, I say leave the drinking of alcoholic beverages (and the taking of any mind altering drugs in any form) at home, where it's safer for me.

IrishDancerSUE

*Claps hands violently!*

Well said!! [sm=wink.gif]

CafeenMan

I've been saying the same thing repeatedly and nobody gave me the clap.

IrishDancerSUE

Well I was refering to you too of course. *wink* Give me a break. I just joined!

Okay...I didn't plan to be spreading disease either. []

I believe there is a time and a place for drinking and the airfield is not one of them. If you are going to drink then do it elsewhere like in the local pub or at home where you are not going to be in control of any type of vehicle. People that associate beverage consumption ceremonies with a successful day or achievement severely annoy me. Also, if you're on drugs, then either just observe or stay home. Don't try to control anything that has the potential to injure people or property and even kill.

beardking

My Feedback: (4)

Cafeenman, just so you know, my little tirade was meant as a long winded clap for you. I disagree with you a little on your stance completely against alcohol, but hey we all have our own opinions and I'm a big enough man to know that my opinion matters no more or less than the next guy (that would be you).

So, in short **CLAP**

CafeenMan

I don't always agree with me either.

FHHuber

I am not 100% against alcohol... I am 100% against alcohol at the flying field. (yes, there is a difference.)

***
OOPS... let me change that...[:-]
I am 100% FOR Methanol at the flying field... 100% against oral use of Ethyl alcohol at the flying field.

Jimmbbo

Well said, gus!! The logic of your argument is well laid out and solid. [sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

Unfortunately, common sense seems to be far too uncommon (as is the ability to apply the same), which leads to all or nothing, black and white thinking and rules promulgated therefrom..

Cheers!

Jim

CafeenMan

So what you're saying is that the rest of us who are responsible and can go for a few hours without a drink are supposed to feel comfortable and safe around people who don't even have enough "common sense" to know that drinking and flying are a bad combination?

What is it about people who do these kinds of drugs that makes them think it's ok to endanger others just because they can't live life without having to be high (or low) on something all the time?

If everyone had "common sense" rules would not be necessary, but because people don't have common sense, rules have to be made such as "No drinking at the field." A rule that stands in for what should be common sense.

It's not "all or nothing," btw. Drink all you want - but don't fly a plane while you're under the influence.

- Paul

IrishDancerSUE

I am thinking hard as to why people are not allowed to drink while on the job anywhere? Hummm... I wonder why they are not allowed to drink when they have the control of a pencil or a keyboard? A drill or hammer? Even to attend meetings with co-workers? Drink on the job and you're fired. I wonder why?

CafeenMan

I agree with you that it's ridiculous that people can't drink on the job. I would feel a lot safer if the cops in my neighborhood took a sip now and again. If I get hit by a drunk driver, I would feel much better in the hands of an EMT that had just belted one down. And if I can't smell a fresh beer on the breath of the pilot of the plane I'm getting on, I get off and book another flight.

I've seen the light! [sm=thumbup.gif]

IrishDancerSUE

The problem with 'common sense' is that everyone tends to have their own version of it therefore it should not be used as a trusted guideline. Hence the need for rules and regulations.