jettstarblue

Why did I ask how these are being set up?

Why not pits at each end, with the wind of the day determining which pit you'll use?
I see that most are set up with the pit in the middle, just the way everybody has always done it, I guess, but not the best, or safest way. Also I've see quite a few with NO protection given to the pits. Not to mention a bunch of folks standing around telling big ones, and not paying attention to what's going on.


Jetts

yard-dart

My Feedback: (35)

After reading all of these posts, I'm with post #44. I also agree with DON'T BE STUPID or DON'T DO SOMETHING STUPID. I would say that 95% of all clubs consist of people age 18 and older. Although 18 is still young, it is still old enough to know what's safe and what isn't. But, when a person is new to the hobby, and they've never flown, or attempted to fly a R/C plane, they NEED TO BE TOLD the do's and dont's regardless of age. Some people simply don't have the common sense to know what's safe and what isn't. So, tell them whether you think they already know it or not. There's nothing wrong with having an actual checklist. My club has been talking about getting one for the past two or three years, but we have yet to make one. Needless to say, we still successfully train folks without a checklist, and we train them to be safe. I'm not saying that these people we train don't crash airplanes, but when they do, 99% of the time it's out of harms way and it's because of dumb thumbs. It happens to the best of us!

Just a few thing to tell a newbie:
1)If you don't know for sure, ASK.
2)If it doesn't sound or look safe, it probably isn't, so don't do it.
3)Until you've soloed successfully under the supervison of an instructor, don't attempt to fly the plane alone, you could kill somone or yourself.
4)Once you've learned to fly, always treat the plane and other club members, and their planes,with respect.
5)If you see someone being unsafe, tell a club officer.
6)The most important thing to remember is SAFETY. Planes are replaceable. People and their limbs aren't!

Teaching people to fly doesn't require a checklist, it only requires a few verbal commands by the instructor, and the witness of two officers during the final solos.

Just my two cents,

John

FHHuber

part of the Pitts being centered is convenience. Part of it is tradition. Part is.... it resembles the way a full scale airport is usually set up... the hangers nearly centered on the main runway.

At some fields with LOTS of people... the pitts row can be longer than the runway... then what are you going to do? Get 30 contestants at our club field at the annual Pattern contest and the pitts row is 500 ft long. We have a 300 ft paved runway.

jettstarblue

Convinience, tradition, and because it looks like the big boys playground, over safety? O.K.

I guess I'd better get out to the big city more often, I've never seen a pit that was bigger than the runway next to it. Sounds like you guys need to start drawing staws for flying days.......

Wouldn't this type of set-up be an indication of some kind of problem?

Jetts

FHHuber

Its not really that large of a safety concern ... the pilots stations would be more of a concern than the pit locations.

The pilots are 20 to 70 feet closer to the runway than the pits. (in our club field's case... about 50 feet.)

If your pits are not set back from the rnway mre than the pilots stations... Which drunk set that one up?

jettstarblue

"If your pits are not set back from the rnway mre than the pilots stations... Which drunk set that one up?"

I'd say probably you.....but my field isn't set up that way, it's safe.

Jetts

jucava

Do we have to notarized this with 3 witness or 1 witness will be fine?

jettstarblue

From vast and past experiences, I find it's best if there are NO witnesses.

Jetts

MikeMc

No witnesses required. FHHuber and his 8 vigilanty buds will do fine.

I'm sure glad convenience and tradition is more important than safety.

jucava

We have to remember that this is a hobby, and not to put hurdles in front the newcomers.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

One thing that RCU really opened my eyes to is that there are a lot of differant types of fields and clubs with differant attitudes about what is safety and how to regulate things. If you've read some of my posts about Sepulvada Basin you know that it is at one end of the spectrum, public field, nobody in charge, some posted rules in English which can't be read by many and is ignored by most others. Then there are fields like I suppose FHHuber belongs to where you have the ability to screen pilots based on profiecency before turning them loose on their own. From my percpective the test is a bit much but then I go to the field today and watch a sailplane pilot at the wrong end of the runway, a guy who has to stand at the edge of the runway to take off and land and then walks in front of the other pilots, the wind changes and 5 pilots flying right hand and five others flying left.....How about the trainer that landed across the runway and rolled halfway to the pits on the infield? This was all in about 1/2 hours time, so maybe a little more control wouldn't be so bad but I am used to doing what I want and having someone telling me differant would be irritating to say the least.

The point I am trying to make is that we all come from differant prospectives and untill you get to travel around and experiance differant flying sites your gonna be skeptical of others views, as we see in this thread.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

I'm not quite clear on what point you were trying to make.

So, I went back & read all the posts in this thread, and I see posts written from at least 3 distinct perpectives.

One, the original intent of the thread, was to post some helpful guidelines for instructors who are trying to help beginning pilots learn.

A second perspective was that of the person who has liability for the club and field, (officers, trainers, field owners, etc) and is interested in minimizing liability for the club, officers, trainers and field owners.

A third perspective I see in these posts (probably the most vocal) is that of the person who assumes he has no responsibility like liability, and accepts no training responsibilities.

I am an instructor, and have developed my own method to help beginners maximize the useful life of their first plane. I have been a club officer, and understand the liability issues.

I find the posts from the third perspective flatly annoying. If you don't like a rule, become an officer and instructor, and propose a change to the rule at your club. And if you don't belong to a club which has rules and offers training... why are you posting to a thread which was posted from the first perspective?

Just my two bits worth.
Grumpy Dave Olson

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Dave, close but no cigar. Reread the first two paragraphs of the first post, it explains that these particular rules are to allow someone to fly solo at a club. That is what is getting people from your third perspective up in arms. As an instructors' guide they are pretty good, for someone who is not used to having an authority at the field tell them what to do they are very oppressive sounding. From the tone of your post you sound like someone who likes to tell people what to do and it follows that you see nothing wrong with them. It's all a matter of perspective.

MikeMc

I changed my mind and deleted this post. Maybe next time.

FHHuber

The typical (tradional... convenient...) way that it generally goes... is also safe.

The pilot either taxis the plane out or has a helper (one of his buddies or just a fellow club member... whoever is handy... and knows halfway what is going on. ) carry the thing to the runway.

The pilot line the airplane up (if it wasn't carried out and set down already lined up...) usually with the tail almost even with his feet... and accelertes briskly to take off. The airplane is HEADED AWAY from everybody from the start ANYWAY. since they are organized at the mid field... and the runway has enough room to take off on half or less of it.

Now you come around to land. If you placed all the pits down at the end you approach from you have THE MOST DANGEROUS SETUP YOU CAN MAKE. because stall on landing is more likely to put an airplane down beside the runway than a stall on takeoff. (which plants them IN the runway.)

****** just fixing typos... carry on. ***********

(plenty of typos... phumblphingleritis rules my keyboard.)

FHHuber

It was originally intended as an AID for ANYONE giving instructions... Just some hints of what it would be nice to teach the student before you cut the buddy cord and let him off on his own.

Something to HELP people know when they might be reasonably safe to fly without assitance when there are other people within half a mile.

It wasn't intended to be a set of RULES.

It wasn't intended to be something to create arguments... it was intended to HELP people become better RC pilots.

unfortunately... with some people that like to pick things apart and want to justify thier being as unsafe as possible... you can't try to be helpful...

Even when it was a good idea in the first place (to post some basic guidelines for when the instructor should feel safe cutting the buddy cord..) its degenerated because some people can't handle an IDEA being presented even when the idea was something that was going to help a lot of people.

jettstarblue

Hmmmm wonder who that could be? Yes some of us go out of our way to be very unsafe, it's more fun.

Jetts

apalsson

My Feedback: (1)

At the risk of further extending this debate, I must say that I support what FFHuber is saying.

We need to train some basic safety rules because a remote controlled airplane is not a toy and can cause a lot of damage or injury if not handled right.
There has been a lot of irresponsible things said in this thread and it surprises me to se some allegedly experienced modellers advocate a "no rule" arrangement where everyone is left to their own devices.
No wonder our club fees are sky rocketing to cover liability insurance.

My 2c worth.

Ari

MikeMc

Say what?

Person A kills person B with his plane. Neither have AMA insurance and it doesn't happen at an AMA regulated field. How does that make AMA insurance go up? If your club/AMA fees are sky rocketting that has nothing to do with the rebel airforce. Look inside the club and AMA insurance claims from their own members or people/things their members have injured/damaged for that answer.

BTW, I lost all respect for FHHuber when he started calling people immature, drunks and putting words in our mouth that we didn't say. Besides he's just trying to prod us into anger anyway. Nice try.

00000000000000

I don't lose respect for people based on stuff like that. Some of them know 100 times more than I know, and I'll learn a lot listening to them with an open mind. If they do come across once in a while as a poorly lit body part and cause me pain, I just put some cyber Prep-H on the message and I don't get upset. I'll b1tch and act stupid on occasion when I'm on the rag. But my next message might be something that is a lot of help to someone. We are all gods and goddesses in our own ways, and maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed in other ways. I chew and swallow what's good, and spit out the bad (or at least try to) - Joe

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

x

FHHuber

The day I worry about getting respect from McMike is the day I know my brain melted.

Maybe in 30 years when he grows up he'll figure out that he was a pretty stupid kid. (if he lives that long. The Darwin awards await his entry. http://www.drkendavis.com/darwin/ for a sample of his peers. [>:] )

MikeMc

Score one more (real bad assumption) to FHHibber's list -> you've figured out I'm a kid with zero facts. OMG(osh) I can't stop being amazed at your ability. I'd love to see you try to treat people like this in real life. Now I'd pay to see that. FYI, I'm 37 and don't plan on growing up ever so just put that silly idea outa your head.

Last thing. Very basic rule in debates is you know you've won when the other person stops debating the topic and starts personal attacks. Enjoy.

wings

That is correct Mike...

Willdo

Fred, here is a quote fom a post I made in another thread:-

Some people always stay within the square, some ( like me ) step outside occasionally, and some live outside! - they all seem to hate each other and yet each of them can be an asset to society. That's how life is!

I liken you to the first person, and I respect your aims and views, they are admirably sensible, but please lighten up just a little.[sm=sunsmiley.gif]

Mike, I liken you to the third person, and I also have respect for your defiant ideas, but if you are not going to grow up, who are your kids going to look up to and respect?

Me? Well I'm just an old fool who has gone back to playing with toy aeroplanes.(oops! model aeroplanes) because I'm not fit enough to ride fast motorcycles anymore. - and I love it!
So why don't you two do the same, stop arguing, and do the only thing you have in common!