Gee Minn, Did someone tell you I pee'd in your coffee or something, I was just stating my point on radios and what I have seen at my flying fields. If you want to stick with your radios then do it. I personally like to stay ontop of technology and how it makes our life easier. In response to Dave, all my planes are on the same frequency (27) but not all planes have their servo directions the same. With a muti memory radio you store all that info in each memory. Minn one thing I did witness at the field, a fellow flyer showed up with 2 4 channel radios and 2 planes. he flew the first one the switched radio to fly the second plane. Only thing was he forgot to turn off his first radio and shot himself down. Another good reason to have a computer radio. LOL

RC, I could list a thousand good reasons to own a computer radio. And I'm sure you could too. I have one, and I love it. I repeat: I am not saying one system is better or worse than the other, they are just different. You seem to keep trying to say that they are both ok... but yours is better. You are wrong. For every reason that you give me as to why your way of doing things is better, I can give you a reason why it is not. For every reason that you give me as to how your radio makes you a better flier, I can give you one as to why your radio makes you a more dangerous flier.
Do you want to keep trading stories? Ok, first I have some doubts as to the validity of yours. If this flier had cranked up plane #2 with two Tx's on, wouldn't he have noticed something was wrong before he took off? And if he DID, and took off anyway, the equipment he was using is irrelevant.

Now MY story. A guy at my field dropped his Tx and it broke. He was really disappointed because he really wanted to get in a flight. "No problem" said club member #2, "I can switch my Tx to your Freq and you can use it to fly YOUR plane!" Kewl huh? So, they set it up and he got a nice flight in. Then Club member #2 fueled up, turned on, switched to low throttle, flipped the prop, and the engine screamed to life at full bore! The safety restraints were the only thing that saved him from becoming cold cuts. "Ooops... forgot to switch back"

But all these stories, like your first post in this thread, are off topic.

What this post was originally about is: What should a beginner START OUT with.

Imagine a kid who had never ridden a bike before asking what he should get. Well, you could start out with a tricycle, but... naaah. Get a basic two-wheeler with training wheels, as you get better, you take the training wheels off. But be careful, just because you know how to ride a bike doesn't mean you're experienced in how to ride safely. Then, after a few years, you'll out-grow it, but by then, you'll know whether you want to get a mountain bike, or a 10 speed, or a motorcycle.

I was commenting on a reply that was essentially saying, If you're going to learn to ride a bike, go out and get a Yamagucci XL5000 with 21 speeds, dual hydraulic disk breaks, and a carbon fiber frame (because God knows, you can't ride a bike now days without a carbon fiber frame) This way you'll learn faster and you'll never have to upgrade.

Obviously this advice is ridiculous. And when I said so, you felt compelled to tell me and the rest of the R/C community that you love your computer radio, and that you apprently can't fly very well without one, and that we are a bunch of senile old fogies.

And as far as staying on top of technology, my family owned company is one of the world leaders in technology. I hope you and many people like you will keep technology going the way it is, and I hope you have a nice career in the technology field. Which is another reason to be respectful... Someday, you may be working for me :devious:

A 6 channel is nice however one problem that is being over looked for a beginner. all the programming will not transfer over with the trqainer cord, so a four channel is best best for a beginner, much easier to use and learn on, the 6 channel stuff can wait for more advanced planes

*grabs a bag of popcorn, sits back and asks who's ahead*:boxing:

LOL
Randy

I originally said go for the 6 channel computer radio or at least the 6 channel skysport. I change my vote. A basic radio is fine. Considering the other expenses you will have, it would be easier on the wallet. You will probably want a computer radio someday. But for now the four channel is all you need. It would be good for you to learn how to set up control throws using the servo arms and control horns. There are pro's and con's to both radios, so just go with the simple and cheaper one for now. That's my new 2 cents. Dan

Well Minn, I'm going to let this bickering go because its obvious your king of hill here. As far as not believing my story I could care less what you think, I was there, I saw it happen. Unless your in the AV industry I doubt I'd ever work for you. As far as attacking you, as you say I don't think I addressed you personally in my first post but you still jumped all over my face as if I did. I think the idea of this forum is to post your opinion not whether or not people agree with you. My opinion is my opinion, thats all, its not the law. I'll admit I'm not the greatest flyer but what gives you the right to question my ability and my decision to use expo to help me along. If you never advance to a trickier plane how are you suppose to improve your flying skills? As far as my talking about older flyers, we have several members in their late 70's and early 80's, those are the guys I'm referring to. I'm sure you have them at your field also. you probably are assuming that I'm some young punk shooting my mouth off, well I'm 44. Have a real nice day

Listen to MinnFlyer and go waste your money on a 4 channel that you will replace in a year or less... It's your money.

So crap can happen with a basic radio or a computer radio? Who'd a thunk it?

Buy what you like, and what interests you. If the flexibility and capability of a computer radio are what you like, buy one. If you're confused by technology or think it'll be too much for you to handle, don't. If you've got the money and want to spend it, don't let anyone's poor house stories disuade you from enjoying the fruits of your labor. If money is tight, buy only what is necessary.

As for myself, I started out with a basic 4 channel years ago. I moved to a computer 6 a couple years back, and I found it to be an asset to my enjoyment of the hobby. That 4 channel is collecting dust. I found myself needing another channel, and the 6 channel sat on the bench as I bought a 7. Last year the heli got a govenor, so I sold the 7 for an 8103.

A good radio is an investment if you plan to grow in the hobby, or have multiple aircraft. That's my view, at any rate. Any story you hear about computer radios crashing an airplane is due to the operator not paying attention. Inattention will cause calamity no matter what you're using.

No matter what your interests and resources steer you towards, make sure you set it up right. Get the linkages and pushrods to the proper lengths, and have the proper throws. Don't use a radio as a crutch.

I started with a Futaba Skysport 4 ch. a little over a year ago. Good system. I have bought a T6XAS mainly to be able to controll all four of my airplanes by changing the radio. Cheaper to buy a receiver for a new plane. I started with the Sig LT40 and a OS 46XF and it is a great combo. and no, after a year and a half it does not "takes ALL of your concentration to keep the plane in the air"

Saito, I stand corrected. For those of you who can fly all year round it's much easier to get good sooner. For others, they learn for 6 months, and then they forget for 6 months. There is also a big difference between someone who can fly a plane, (as in take off, fly the traffic pattern, do a few good maneuvers "two mistakes high", and land safely) and someone who can fly well enough to get a plane out of an emergency situation.

My point, and the point of this thread is: What should a beginner start out with?

No one doubts that a beginner should not start out with anything other than a trainer type airplane.

No one doubts that someone who has learned the basics should go to some type of intermediate trainer next instead of going right to a high performance plane as his second choice.

And yet, many people feel that a novice, who in many cases knows nothing about airplanes (remember airplanes? Those things you and I KNOW how to fly? Those things that we KNOW it takes aileron and elevator, not rudder, to turn?) They take this rookie under their wing, and put one of the worlds most sophisticated pieces of electronic equipment that money can buy between his dumb thumbs.

Unfortunately, we have no statistics for who-out-grew-what, and how-soon, and taking a poll here would not reflect the true results because NONE of the people who washed out of the hobby are here to vote. Plus, let's face it, most of us with computers are more likely to be technically advanced, and therefore more likely to be able to graduate to a more sophisticated system sooner than those who do not have a computer to vote with.

But let's look at those "Wash-Outs".

We all know of at least one or two guys (if not many) who started this sport, but quit. Why did they quit? Of course there are those who decided they would rather go hunting or fishing and can't do both, but in most cases, it was due to reasons like:
They just couldn't get the Eye/Hand thing coordinated. Or, to tighten a turn, they fed in more aileron without feeding in more elevator and their plane rolled over, so then in a panic they pulled UP!!!! Or they couldn't get passed that "when the plane is coming toward you, the ailerons and rudder are backward, but the elevator and throttle are the same.

Or, in many cases they could, eventually, get passed these things, but couldn't afford all of the crashes during the learning process (Face it, eventually you have to lose the buddy cord).

Would Exponential have helped them? Would Digital Mixing have helped them? Would the ability to fly 10 airplanes with one transmitter have helped them? No. Either they "Just don't get it" or they "Just can't afford it".

If they "just don't get it", a complicated radio will just cloud the soup even further.

If they "Just can't afford it".... 'nuff said.

No one who has ever washed out has ever said, "If I had just had a computer radio, I would have stuck with it".

As I have said before, I HAVE a computer radio, AND I LOVE IT! I use exponential and I have mixing for flaperons. But what WE, the established fliers, fly with has no bearing on this thread!

So please, when a rookie asks what he should START OUT with, don't assume that he is going to become a great flier, and don't just remember when YOU were a rookie, remember the OTHER rookies you've seen, and try to give them advice accordingly.

Well said, Mike!

That's exactly how I see it, too.

Don't you feel this talk about complication is a little bit over the top? Get real. A radio with some buttons on it that sometimes beeps is a lot less intimidating for most people than say... a small, tempermental engine. Or the basics of flight.

Does it confound and confuse the learning process? No. There's nothing inherently more to do while flying with a computer radio than a basic radio. You've still got two sticks, and they still move the same way. Do your fingers mindlessly wander and flick switches of their own free will? Mine sure don't.

Comparing this to other purchase decisions is good, but Minnflyer has choosen an inappropriate comparison. A computer radio is not the equivalent of a 20-pound scale P-51. It's much more akin to choosing a high-quality trainer over a rock-bottom rock. Do you freely recommend something "nice" like an LT-40 over a shelf-paper special? Or a 46fx over a 46la? Both of those choices are more expensive, and the alternatives will teach the basics just as well.

Unless you can't use simple devices, a computer radio won't cause you any undue frustration. If you've got the money, and got the desire for it, buy it. Nothing bad will happen. You won't get turned around and forget where you live. Physics will remain the same, and the plane will still fly.

There's only one situation in which a computer radio can cause definate frustration. That's when the only instructor is one of those folks that scorn a computer radio (for whatever reason; fear, intimidation, lack of understanding). He'll happily sit there and adjust pots with a little screwdriver, but won't help his student reverse a servo because he can't find the DIP switch.

The only real, tangible advantage to a basic radio is price. Everything else given here is FUD.

Do you guys realize this was the initial question on this thread? You guys have turned this into a flame war. I'm sure that the person asking this question has come to realize that you are all crazy (or just really argumenative).

Well said MikeL !

That's exactly how I see it too.

Hey, Guys...
I'm taking up Golf. is it a requirement to have a $2000 set of carbon fiber titanium clubs (with ring-laser Gyro stabilization), NASA designed Super Duper golf balls,
Dinosaur Skin Shoes, with genuine Rattlesnake teeth spikes,
Unborn Goat Fetus gloves, and tees mined from the shoemaker-levy9 comet?
Or can I just get a $100 set of sticks and go out to the public course?
</sarcasm>


Get a basic, 6 channel futaba radio, get good, experienced local help, and go flying.
the radio should come with 4 servos, a charger, reciever, and battery pack.
you can use the servos in most any airplane, and you still have many options for your next projects.
you'll also need flightline accessories, such as fuel, starting battery, etc, but you won't need those until the airplane is built.
you'll need glue, covering and some basic tools to finish the airplane, get help at your local hoby shop, or on-line store, and get whatever equipment will best fit YOUR Budget.
Welcome!

I say get the basic 4 channel for your first radio. Then if you want migrate to an upgrade 6/9 channel. The basic 4 channel are not that expensive. You can never have enough radios.

As far as the plane it self the one you mentioned is a good one.

Randy

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. There is another situation. There is the situation in which the instructor tells his student that "Computerized mixing and exponential are a must now-a-days". When the rookie probably doesn't even know what exponential MEANS let alone what it does.

If someone now says "Well, I'm not an instructor, I was just putting in MY 2 cents." Consider the Rookie that asked the question... DOES HE KNOW YOU'RE NOT AN INSTRUCTOR?

Is there anyone here who has never met that club member (Lets call him Joe *I immediately apologize if anyone in this thread, living or dead is named Joe!*) that talks to a rookie about "coordinating his turns" when you know damn well that Joe couldn't coordinate turns if he wanted to, let alone do it on a regular basis? Is there ANY club in the US or abroad that doesn't have at least one club member that is basically full of S**T and just loves to prove to the newbies how knowledgeable he is? THESE are the guys that make computer radios complicated to a trainee.

To save MONEY is the ONLY reason to buy a 4 channel. All this crap about they are too complex is just a joke. There are horror stories to cover every angle so enough with the "I saw a guy at the field ...blah blah blah and he crashed because he did this or that". Just because the extra features are there doesn't mean you have to use them, but in the future you WILL use them. If you have the money get a 6X, 8U or 9C if you don't then get a 4 channel, again money or lack of money should be the only reason. If you happen to get out of the hobby because it wasn't your cup of tea then these computer radios will hold their resale value better than a 4 channel would because the buyer demand is there.

Well tmproff, I bought the Futaba 6AX after 3 months of flying, now my OPINION is that I found it to be easy to use and program. You can store 6 seperate planes in its memory. I bouthe radio, receiver and 4 servos for $219.00. A couple of months ago I bought the 9C because I exceeded 6 planes. I still have the 6X and I keep it in my workshop to set up servos for installation. I keep all my planes on the same frequency but thats just my OPINION. In my Opinion your plane and engine choices are just fine also. But beware........you will get sucked into this god forsaken hobby.

Oh tmproff, I forgot to mention the reason I bought the 6 channel was because I built a second plane and didn't want to buy a second 4 channel radio also. I figured it would be easier to change memories on one radio than either using 2 radios or changing servo direction on my 4 channel. My first radio came with Avistar I started with, God rest its soul.

You sure are looking hard for your reasons. How is that a definate cause of frustration? That guy at the field is going to talk about everything and anything, including the radio. Just because a guy is a newbie doesn't mean he's dumb, or will listen to anything anyone says. My bet is that most newbies can recognize their intructors, and perhaps, just maybe, remember their names too. Give people some credit.

No reasonable instructor is going to suggest mixing on a trainer. Expo they might, just as with a basic 6 they might very well suggest dual rates.

Perhaps a person should have to take a vocabulary test prior to purchasing a computer radio?

Each individual is different. You and I can't judge their aptitude, skills, or abilities by reading a couple of posts. Your contention that all newbies will by default have terrible, awful, painful experiences with a computer radio is really quite amazing. Like everything else in this hobby, beginners can have their own preferences and are certainly able to learn about radios. If they choose to use a computer radio, so be it. You're being rather pretentious in suggesting that they can't handle the "complexity", or should spend their money elsewhere. Who are you to suggest that?

Give them the information, and let them make their own choices. You need to find some balance in your advice.

Go to Towerhobbies and get the Avistar/OS40LA/4ch radio combo
$275 for everything.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...Q=1&I=LZ1624**

When and if you move up you can keep everything for when you haven't flown in 6 months or loan it to the club's training program or sell it as a combo.

This is 90% of what you need to get started. The plane flies good and will provide hours of pleasure.

Please don't lump us all into a group of people that just wants to fight or irritate others. That award goes to the small minority. This hobby is filled with people you will really enjoy.
Steve

As far as computer radios go don't rule out the Hitech Eclipse, 7 channel. I just purchased one and I am loving it very much. I really like the feature of changing to any channel you like.

I humbly apologize, I got carried away...
It was never my intention to say that a newcomer should not own a computer radio. My original intention was to point out that a computer radio is not a MUST for anybody, let alone a beginner. By all means, if you can afford it, get the best equipment you can. But what I really wanted to point out to the beginner is... If you can't afford it, a basic 4 channel radio is all you NEED, and that all of the bells and whistles are NOT mandatory.

Yet every time I tried to explain that there are draw backs that go along with the benefits of computer radios, people saw it as an attack on computer radios. I am not trying to attack computer radios! I am only attacking the belief that they are a necessity to a newcomer.