Well first of all i have been flying r/c for almost three years now......I started out with electrics (BIG mistake).......though i did actually teach myself how to fly with planes that could just be epoxy'd together and flown again within minutes......then about a year and a half ago i bought a RTF superstar and have been flying it by myself too.....well i just crashed it for the first time a few days ago (which by the way was not because of pilot error, my transmitter's battery died so obviously it was dissapointing that i couldnt even crash it because i was a bad pilot) and im thinking about turning the guts in to a spa3d......but i also want a couple of other intermediate planes that look nice and are fun......so i was looking at the tower hobbies site and a few of the planes caught my eye.....being the WWII fighter plane fanatic that i am my eye first caught the great planes P-51 mustang (sweet)......next i was leaning towards the .40 sized pitts s2c bipe, also looks good and i figured would have good flight characteristics and still very aerobatic......the last one i was looking at is the .60 size Lancair with an 80" wingspan and flaps......looking at that one made think that it should be just as easy as a trainer to fly being that it has flaps......so what im getting to is i would like to get all three of these and i was wondering if anyone had any input on if these would be good for an intermmediate pilot???? any feedback would be great.

Thanx,
Jeremy

Well they are good for an intermediate pilot but if you wanna go from trainer to P-51 or to an airplane with flaps good luck!

I would suggest getting a SIG 4*40, or GP Sportster and get the hang of that... low wing, then low wing taildragger etc.

Going from a trainer to a P-51 can and has been done, but yo would be in the minority if you did it successfully---

Keep us posted,
james

World Models Super Sports 40! Cheap, EZ to build, fantastic to fly!

Andy

Coomon wisdom is that you must go from high-wing trainer to mid-wing to low-wing (then taildragger) before you can fly ANYTHING halfway exciting! Bummer. It seems to always a matter of "can't get there from here." Well at least with RealFlight I can satisfy my urges to fly that hot plane while still taking out the poky trainer on weekends.

I think the high wing then low wing progression thing is overstated.

I agree that you should start on a trainer (I found out the hard way) and most of these are high wing. If you can handle a trainer well then, I think, you should be able to cope with most moderate aircraft. After all the control inputs are the same.

I, personally, find it difficult to tell the different flying characteristics due to wing position in flight.

I CAN tell the difference between an intemediate and an advanced plane. The P-51 and scale aerobats like the Cap 232 I would put in the latter category. Advanced aeroplanes are ones that either fly fast or have tricky stalling characteristics.

When you start considering what else is available then most people will naturally go for a low winger as it looks more like a 'real' plane. However, there are often sport scale versions of the type of aircraft you are looking at with 'easier' aerofoil sections that will make suitable substitutes.

You don't have to go for the standard 'low winger' but make sure it's not to fast, has good stall characteristics and is easy to land.


Unfortunately I can't give recommendations as I am not aware of the models available in your country. If you were in the UK I could give you a list!

If you're capable on Realflight with the settings at 100% realism then you 'll be fine with a sport low-wing plane. Sure, tri-gear is easier than a taildragger on the ground. Once in the air the mid and low wing planes aren't that much more challenging (as long as they're in the same class). My first plane was a Top Flite Freshman (anyone remember that far back?) which is a mid-wing, tricycle gear trainer. My second was a low-wing tail dragger (still have it). These planes flew 20 years before I bought the original version of Realflight. Sure, the high-wing to mid-wing to low-wing progression is a safe way to go, but with Realflight you can speed up the learning curve immensely. As siclick33 says, avoid flaps and planes that have known stall problems until you've got a bit more experience.

thom7215,

Assuming all of the guts from the RTF Superstar are ok (radio, engine etc), then I'd be temped to get an ARF Avistar and plonk it all in. The Avistar will be a bit more of a challenge and it's always good to have a trusty ol' trainer to fall back on. Ask around, you'll find a lot of people keep a trainer on stand by for when they want to slow the pace down a bit.

As for other stuff.....

I can see where the progression from high wing to low wing comes in, a high wing plane has 'positive roll stability' meaning that the CG is under the wing and will naturally pull the plane back upright. A low wing plane may have 'negative roll stability' meaning that the CG is above the wing.
I have a Hobbico Brightstar (now discontinued) which is supposed to be a low wing trainer (looks a bit like a Cherokee), it has a flat bottom wing, a fair amount of dihdral, a trike gear and flies as slow as an average trainer. It does however, fly differently from a trainer. You can tell it has the negative roll stability by the way it falls into turns and wants to increase the roll, you have to be careful to maintain altitude, you also need to keep a little power on landing unlike the trainer which tends to float. Unfortunately, due to the wing, it is no more aerobatic then my LT-40 although it handles wind better.

Taildraggers can vary wildy in their handling. I was unfortunate enough to buy Sturdy Birdy at one point in my efforts to learn to fly. This thing (a taildragger) was a bear on the ground even a very experienced instructor had a lot of trouble getting it to track straight for take offs. I eventually got the hang of it and flew it for a while...

I actually went straight from an LT-40 to a H9 Funtana, I found the Funtana easy to fly around (using very low rates) and easy to take off. Landings required a bit of getting used to, you have to fly the plane to the ground otherwise it'll either float forever or suddenly stall if you slow it down too much. This plane could, I guess be compared to a mid wing as it has neutral stability, i.e. the CG is right in the center line of the wing and will therefore just go where you point it. Not too difficult to get used to especially as the plane can fly slowly....

I'm currently putting together a Tiger 60, this looks like a good option as it has the ability to be easily converted from trike to taildragger and has a good reputation as an easy flying sport plane. Although it is a low winger, the fuselage has a low profile (not too much fuse area above the wing) so hopefully it should not exhibit those 'negitive roll stability' problems...

In short, if you have the budget, here's my suggestion: get an Avistar for the equipment you've got and get a new engine, radio, plane package for your next project. You'll probably not want to use that LA engine for a higher performance sport plane anyway...

J J Freestyle has some great planes that you'd need. I'd recommend a 4 star .40, but Jerry has some brand new, never flown sig 4-star .60s. They're red and all ready for your motor and servos. You just need to glue in your servo tray after you figure out where your cg is located with your engine.

He clips the two bays off both wing tips. This makes it PERFECT for aerobatics, but as sedate as a trainer. They fly AWESOME!! He'll give you a good deal on them and he's got servos and engines to sell for it. Have a wonderful and Blessed week.
Clint

PS. I fly my 4-star .60 with an OS .91 4-stroke and my Father is in the process of installing a Saito 100 GK on his, also built by Jerry.

I purchased the GP Lancair - thought it looked great, and on the ground, it does. It's my 5th plane and can honestly say don't waste your money - why:

1) The plane NEEDS flaps to land - very fast plane which will stall at a moments notice
2) Hard to see when flying around, especially on cloudy days - the thin wing just dissappears
3) You can't do much with it in the air apart from admire it's good lucks
4) Not cheap to fix - replacement wing plus wing tips = $104 at Tower
5) Landing is a real pain - if you get it wrong then either it bounces wildly or bends the nose gear - I land on tarmac
6) the wheels pants are rubbish - poor landings will destroy them faster than you can blink - replacements are $20+
7) if you cut out the front fuselarge as suggested then the replacement nose gear - Robart 654 does not fit without a load of work

Bottom line is that I crashed mine recently - I was flying very slow with full flaps into the wind - plane stalled - wing dropped v. quickly and plane spun into the ground!

If you want a forgiving but great flyer then try the GP Big Stik 60

With your experience I would go for a Goldberg Tiger II. The kit is made so that you can start out with trike gear and convert it later to tail dragger once you have become used to the plane. The plane has a wide speed range, is fairly aerobatic, handles wind well and is easy to land. Lots of flyers at our field get other planes after the T II but keep it for fun to fly Sunday flyer! You can also get it in a 60 size if you want to go bigger.

The Tiger is a good choice & so is the Great Planes Easy Sport 40. The Tiger 2 looks a bit nicer, but the Easy Sport is a fair bit cheaper. They both fly about the same.

Well, here's my two cents... And that's probably exactly what it's worth... As for the P-51? Nah, save your money.. They are beautiful planes, but they fly pretty hot... Need to keep speed up... When your used to a trainer, it's very easy to "forget" that not all planes have those same characteristics... You cut the throttle on that P-51 and try to bring her in for a nice slow landing and it'll repay you with a nice "THWACK" as it jams a wing into the ground and does a couple of cartwheels... I have and have flown a lot of planes out there... Do I think you need to go to a mid-wing, or mid-wing trainer like an easy-sport or something like that? Nah... But you do need to limit your selection until you get used to how different planes feel and react.. Low-wings DO have very different flight characteristics... As do semi or fully semetrical airfoils...

So.. On to my next two cents (woo hoo! that makes 4 cents so far!!!) If I were to suggest a "next" plane for you, it would be one of two...

The GP Ultra Sport 40+ or the Hanger 9 Twist.... Here's the reason... The US40 has a unique airfoil desing... The chord of the wing is much thicker at the fuselage than it is at the tip... The wing is joined at the middle at an angle so that the TOP of the wing is perfectly flat, but because of the taper, that makes the BOTTOM of the wing have diehedral.. Basically what this does for you is this... You have a VERY capable and agile pattern type plane that you will NOT get bored with... It will fly FAST with a higher pitch prop, it will do rolls, tumbles, spins, and loops like crazy, and will be a BLAST to fly... BUT.... First, when built right, they fly VERY stable and smooth... It's almost like it's on rails... Because of the diehedral built into the bottom of the wing, all you need to do is cut the throttle, maybe dial in just a degree or two of flapperon, and she settles right in on a perfect glidescope... It doesn't want to snap and it lands as smooth as can be.....

The Twist is another alternative... It's actually more of a 3D or fun fly plane than a pattern plane, but it also has some great flight characteristics... If you pull the throttle back, in a gentle wind you can literally just about set the thing down vertically... It's very stable in slow flight and is no problem at all to land... At the same time, you throw the throttle to it, and it's a whole different beast... Vertical climbs are a cinch, rolls and loops happen NOW, and again it's something you'll probably never "outgrow"... The ONLY complaint I have about the twist is that it's designed to be either gas or electric... Because of that, there isn't a lot of wood in it... A hit that other planes would come out of with no damage can sometimes leave the twist needing a little glue and balsa..

I'm sure there are plenty of other planes out there that exhibit these same characteristics, slow stable flight combined with incrediable agility with more speed... But I mentioned these because out of everything I have flown, these are the BEST...

One other comment about the twist... It's a $99 airplane in ARF form! It doesn't get much better than that..

I would look at the UCANDO 46. I will be even easier to fly than your trainer once you get used to it. But be warned the landings will ruin you, they are so easy. I had an Avistar, I liked it alot. Very fun and forgiving. I ended up trading that one off. I had a Funtanna 46 that lived about 15 seconds into its maden. Then I got a Space Walker II, it was ok, but it always had a funny tip stall. Some of the more experienced pilots at my club tried it, and said they did not care for it. I tip stalled it once every time I went up, and the last time it went down in the river. I also have a H9 Super Cub, and starting to put together a Super Stearman. But I will always have a UCD 46 in my hanger from now on. And I want to get another Avistar for putting around also.

YES!!! the UCD would be a great second plane, theres a hole lot of wing surface there and when u land that sucker u can just about walk next to it. Just keep your rates low, then later on turn the rate high an 3D!!!