Actually, I'm having a hard time believing there is a debate on this screwy idea.

Have you looked lately at some of the threads on the low opinion our fearless leaders in the AMA have on turbines? The future of turbines ain't a sure thing by the looks of Prez Brown's actions and willingness to circumvent AMA procedures. I don't have a turbine plane, probably won't ever afford one, but I sure would like it if I could. If such hairbrained practices like instructing beginners on turbines ever took place on a large scale, you can be sure the waivers would cease to exist.

It's about as crazy as putting those funky spinny thingys on the front of an engine that pulls planes through the air and having a man ride inside it. I'm pretty sure people thought that 100 years ago. OMG, the insanity of inovation or change. Let's put a stop to it now before we cause the end of human life.

I dont get it?

There's really nothing new here to get. We have this same discussion at least once a month... sometimes more. Basicly if anybody tryies to use their brain to suggests anything out of the norm and/or doesn't follow the rest of the sheep then they get flamed and are considdered very dangerous and arrogant.

find a highly experienced jet pilot to fly it, no matter how long it takes.
from the start say know i dont want to rewin your model.

in·no·va·tion
Pronunciation: "i-n&-'vA-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the introduction of something new


stu·pid·i·ty
Pronunciation: stu-'pi-d&-tE, styu-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner

I think we know where this is heading.. If you want to innovate build an entirely different type of engine (something new and untested) However if you wish to be stupid go somewhere where the only person that dies in yourself.

Those who don't get the dictionary definition: This is innovation:

Putting a lawnmower engine on a bike to let you go farther and faster

This is stupidity:

Strapping two E-Class rocket engines to a DSL modem hoping it'll fly.

ARE YOU MAD![X(]

If someone turned up with a trainer and wanted to learn on it I wold call the looney bin.
Nah seriously,

The speeds that some of those turbines can get up to is astronomical! And I'd imagine they are twitchy at that speed which would probably be bad for someone who is learning( I am still learning myself).

And pigs would fly

And if the AMA does it, it MUST be the ONLY way, right?? What the turbine industry needs to do is form their own sanctioning body, provide their own insurance and waiver program, and tell the AMA to go jump! Then Mr. Brown wouldnt have to worry about those nasty huge high speed death machines! IF some people in the AMA had their way, we'd all still be flying .049 powered control line planes. Turbines are here to stay, whether Prez. Brown and the AMA likes it or not. AMA needs to get out of the dark ages and change with the times, and stop doing everything the can to hinder the turbine side of the hobby.

It isn't about being closed minded at all. We are talking about someone's first training flight being with a turbine powered plane.

It is kind of like saying, "I want to learn to play baseball, so I'm going to take batting practice against Roger Clemens." Or, "I want to learn how to drive and my first car is going to be a top fuel nitro funny car."

C'mon, nobody is close minded about turbines. If anyone is a born flyer and has the skills on a trainer, let them jump right into jets if they have the money. Even if you are gung-ho about doing that, you have to be honest about their odds of not kitting the plane after the first 5 flights.

Phu-leeze

There are so many things wrong with the initial question that it's FUNNY! And all you people are going off the handle acting as if this could actually happen!

Another thing, the AMA can take a long walk off of a short pier. They are not the law. Not even here on good ole USA, which is pretty much the ONLY place where they have any pull. They can't stop me from flying anything I want to fly. If I want to build and fly a 1000pound, 400MPH turbine that fires guns and has every type of pyrotechnic device known to man I can, as long as I'm not violating some ACTUAL law by doing so. The only thing they can do is refuse to pay on any insurance claim. Oh, and I guess I wouldn't get that really cool PIECE OF CR@P magizine they put out.

Back to the question at hand: I'm not a turbine guy (my club doesn't allow them [the land owners requirement]) so I wouldn't even know how to get the thing started. However, even when newbies come to the club with a simple trainer that they want me to test fly I go through it pretty throughly. I figure that if they don't know how to fly, what are the odds that they got everything right when they put together a 4 channel trainer with like 10 moving parts? Now think about a turbine plane. Is there ANY chance that a rookie could properly put together a plane as complex as a turbine? NO!!

When a newbie comes to your club to learn to fly do they EVER have everything they need? Or do they need to borrow a buddy box, glow driver, fuel pump, starter etc? How much more STUFF does a turbine need? SHEESH!!

Oh, and . . . . nevermind. . . . I just realized that I'm all worked up over this, and it's a RIDICULOUS QUESTION [&:]

i dont even see why there is an argument over this matter. Some people just don't get it.

sean

Look guys, the point I'm trying to make, and it's not that hard to understand, is if nobody ever tries to do something new or different, or push the limits then nothing will ever improve. A reasonable person can try new things and still be safe at the same time. I for one will not put up with anybody telling me I can't do something. I don't intend this to be bragging but I'll put my 15 years in the hobby, masters in engineering, and engineering work experience up againts anybody if they think I don't know what safe is. If you're happy to follow the rest of the sheep around in circles that's great for you, but I will bet anything that some time in the future everybody will own a turbine RC and be learning on them as well. Maybe not today, maybe it will take 100 years but it will happen... and why will it happen? Because safty minded, educated, non-followers will push the limits. And unfortunately people will cuss at them and hate the along the way. Everywhere you turn you see something that was considdered unsafe at one time and now nobody thinks twice about it. Planes, cars, trains, electricity, etc. How about driving 75 mph (don't lie. everybody speeds) on the way to the RC field to learn on your turbine trainer. The drive there was probably more dangerous. Please stop trying to fill everybody's life with fear because you don't understand. It's a simple engineering task to be solved, and there's nothing safe or unsafe about it. People can be unsafe, the task itself is NOT unsafe so unless you know who's involved you can NOT judge.

Dude, I think that your "vision" has seen past reality and landed you way on the other side of fantasy.

Say someone comes to you that has never ridden a bicycle. Would you teach them how to ride on a 1100cc 200hp sport bike? Would you encourage your kids to learn to drive with your new Ferrari?

If you answer yes to those questions you are clearly NOT being reasonable. This isn't really a question of safety but one of practicality. It is simply STUPID to try and teach someone to fly RC with a turbine.

MikeMc I hear what your saying, but I think your missing the forest because of the trees.

There is a reason why there are trainer aircraft, and that is to help you build flying skills needed to move on. Skipping steps along the way, although possible, anything is, to me it just is not wise because you miss building fundamental skills.

And I mean trainer as in prop trainer, not turbine trainer, like I said before, it's not really a learning to fly trainer. Maybe turbine kit makers need to re-think the term so people don't get confused.

To me you should start with a high wing prop trainer and fly it until it falls apart from use.
Move on to something like a 4 star 40 or 60.
Then on to something like a T-34 or AT-6 Texan
From there move up to maybe an extra 300 or Funtana or Edge.
Then onto a pattern style aircraft or a P-51.

If you have mastered them, then I think your ready for a ducted fan jet or a turbine trainer.
Just my opinion for what it's worth.
Each of those steps will build a new skill in flying.

Nah, I just hide under my bed all day.

Why would someone even WANT to learn on a turbine? It would most likely take a year of weekends before you could solo, and 99% of the students would give up for frusteration. All that is except for Mr. MkeMc over there And we're not even talking about cost:

$400 and solo in a month or $6000 (at least) and solo in a year (maybe).

I'm all for climbing mountains that have never been climbed before, but excuse me for not making Mount Everest my first.[&:]

Several years ago, when I first got signed off to fly taildraggers (full scale), I COULD have climbed into a 402 turbine Air Tractor and managed to get it off the ground, around the pattern, and back down again. That doesnt mean it would have been the SMART thing to do. After a few years and a little over a thousand hours of tailwheel and ag time, it's no big deal for me to do it all day long. What I am trying to say here is this; Just because you may have the ABILITY to do something, doesnt mean you are READY to do it. It doesnt have anything to do with being scared to try, or balking at progress, or burying your head in the sand. It has to do with good ole COMMON SENSE! You are right, someday we will probably see guys getting primary instruction with a turbine powered model, but we arent there yet.

I never said it would be easy or cheap. I was simply responding to all the baseless statemenst that said it was stupid, insane and imposible.

- It's not unsafe
- It's not imposible
- It's not stupid

also...

- It's not practical... yet

Who said it was impossible?

Maybe I put that one in by mistake.

I think I said my point enough times. I'm shutting up now. If somebody says "stupid" again I might not be able to keep shutting up but I'll give it a try.

Good luck with that, I'll do what I can to help you out.

stupid

Ha Ha. Very funny. Well, I guess I knew I'd get called on that so I can laugh at it too.

I have (at least) three points to make on this topic:

1) Foolish and stupid are two different things
b) Frank, the AMA would be no help to you in the event of a crash anyway. Your homeowner's comes first.... not sure why they don't advertise THAT as one of the "benefits" of membership.
3)No brains no headache.... let him fly. Natural selection will take care of the rest.