Here is an idea.

What if a trainer was developed that looked like the Facet 1200 but was a ducted fan for beginners. As long as it had light wing loading, trainer airfoil, ect.. Would that not make a good trainer given that it has reduced prop to finger attributes. Or did I just jump off the fence..!

Just thinking... http://home.cogeco.ca/~kmcleod22/kits/ksfac12.htm

P.S. I have never owned a ducted fan so I am not failure with the difficulties of starting ect ect ect..

Hey guys. It's all good. I know I can be a pain, but it's really not my intention. I think you guys would like me if we meet in real life. I'm gernaly pretty easy to get along with. As far as getting beginners in trouble I just think they should be told the facts or the answers to their questions and not feed the answer we want to give them. Give the fact/info and then let them decide for themself, but I'll try to be careful about getting beginners in trouble.

Somehow I get the feeling that about 95% of us would get along just great in person.

Its weird how the forums cause you to misinterpret someones intent.

In a person to person conversation everyone has the opportunity to converse nearly simulaniously.

You dont make a statement, stop, then wait until the other person replies.

Usually you can make a compromise or clear up a misunderstanding before it snowballs into an arguement.

Or, you realize you are going to be seeing this person frequently and don't feel like ruining a possible freindship over a trivial disagreement and mutually decide to change the subject.

Heck, maybe I am not making anys sense, lol.


EDIT: You don't have to worry about spelling either

Peace.[8D]

Broken, be careful... it sounds like you're coming to my side of the fence. It's no fun over here.

I honestly can understand Mike's side of the fence,

Innovation is great and it makes the world a better place but I believe that you have to build your experience to get what you want in the long run. I think the actual journey is fun as well and it will make you a better person because of it. I would put that Turbine plane away, make it your goal to fly it in the future and build the experience you need in order to fly that awesome plane!!!!!

my internat doesnt work for a couple of days, i come back, and all these 'replies'!!!!

LOL what a great thread!!

I have seen this kind of discussion in the jet section several times over the last few years. Very similar to this one

A couple of things these kind of threads seem have in common:

1.) There are some people that just want to be contrarian, period (Heck I like to do it to sometimes) They will always bring up the exception case or the boundary condition and extend that to some ridiculous extreme to flex inteelectual muscle.

2.) The water is muddied by confusing (either intentionally or unintentionally) what is "possible" with what is "reasonable" or "smart".

This always reminds me of a great Chris Rock line about single motherhood. "

Sure, you can raise a child without a father, doesn't mean it is smart.

Just like driving a car with your feet, suppose it is possible but that don't make it a good idea!!"

Who says there's no such thing as a stupid question ?

I can't believe I wasted time reading thru this thread and I can't believe RCU wastes the disk space for this prattle.

Sheesh !!!

Ok Herbert, I nominate you as the one that, from this point forward, gets to decide what is useless "prattle" and what is worthwhile conversation. Judge wisely BUD, our fate is riding on your shoulders.

And to answer your (rather ill worded) question: Nobody said that the original question was stupid, but some of us thought that some of the answers were not very well thought out.

ish

Shok, you flew at the North Dallas Jet Meet didn't you?

Why would i write this if it was a 'stupid question', and why did people reply if it was a 'stupid question'. Its
a perfectly good question, as gas turbines have decreased in price dramaticly since lets say 10 years ago,
a wealthy, aragont person, look for a new hobby has the ability to buy one of these machines. Its your fault you
read this thread, if you where 'clever' you would have realised by my 1st post on this, that is would have been
a stupid question. and dont sling sh*t at RCU, this is a free forum, RCU is 'designed' for people to use it. why
would the moderators deleted this and save space, its a perfectly reasonable question, like many on RCU

Cheers[:@]
Volkan

Like a moth drawn to a flame, I'm still reading this thread!

OK, Frank, I accept your nomination.

Rule #1: No more talk of jets as primary trainers in the Beginners Forum.

The "stupid questions" statement was rhetorical. How about this question: "May I use your car to teach my 14 year old kid how to race down at the dirt track?" Or to address the point at hand: "May I, a beginner, fly my jet at your field, endangering everyone present including your field neighbors, violating your safety rules, AMA rules, and insurance stipulations, and destroying the good will your club has with the community?" How long does take to come up with and answer to these questions?

I realize the actual question was of the form "What would you do ... ", and it was from someone in the UK, but do we really have to ask and go on for 3 pages of: maybe if he ... , you might ... , if he would just ... , etc. Isn't the answer OBVIOUS ?!?!?!

Try this out for a "what would you do" answer: "NO !!! I will not try to fly your jet for you or with you! (Whether or not I have jet experience.) If you do try to fly that jet at this field, with or without a club member helping, I will call the authorities and have you run off. If I hear of you trying to fly that jet withing 10 miles of a residence, I will report you to the authorities. I AM going to report you to the AMA when I get home."

You have to ask yourself what kind of a person would build a jet for a first model and how many warning and danger notices they would have to ignore. Do we really want someone like this in the hobby? I've seen the guy that shows up at the field with a .90 P51 ARF, wanting to learn to fly, and the outcome is always the same. I hate to think of what would happen if this guy had a jet.

How about this for a "what if" question: If Whiley Coyote showed up at your field with a big box labeled "ACME", what would you do?

Wait... stop... please... no more... need to catch my breath. OK, I'm better now but that a close one.

Thanks hebertjj. I always enjoy a good laugh. Facts baby, facts. Learn them, live them, love them... throw in some logic just for fun once in a while as well. Ah nevermind... the unfounded exmaples in your fantasy stories are way better. Dang man you have some good stuff there... keep it coming.

Hey everyone I just took my F-5 turbine trainer out (for my first ever flight) It was great. A nice guy at the feild put me on a buddy box for a while. It was so fun! I solo'd in just 2 hours. I think I am really going to like this hobby.....
HaaaaaaaHaaaaaaa- LOL (LOL Louder)

This thread has grown on me like a bad mold. I think i will check back in 30 minutes....


A serious thought: How small can a turbine be built? If small enough and simple enough it just may someday take the place of ((SOME)) cylinder style engines. Hmmmmm....

Mold? I just scraped it off my feet.

I believe you are correct sir.

It was probably killing him while he read it, post by post, every so closer to the end so he could enlighten us all.

Wings

I'm going to take exception with all the previous posters. If an individual has the money to pursue such an endevor let him/her proceed. I realize that this may be a disastor waiting to happen.
A task to use a turbine as a trainer may seem far fetched but I can remeber myself when learning to fly. I had a problem of overcontroling the model. My instructor after trying various methods to overcome my condition had me switch to a quickie 500. This model forced me to settle down.
I'm relating my experience to what is to be expected when flying a turbine or inducted fan model aircraft. With a qualified instructor pilot the student should be able to solo with a reasonable amount of time. The instructor will be able to take hime through all the basic manuvers from takeoff to landing. I only see one thing that will hinder the students progression and that is limited time aloft. Jets love to suck down fuel.
I'm in a position due to my employment where myself and other employees have flown model type aircraft that fly in excess of 200mph. Speed is a relative issue that is overcome with training.

Flycatch you related to Mike?? Distant cousin maybe

Cousin? Not unless he's part alien.

Aw jeez. Just when i think i have you figured out, this comes up. Now I need erase my whole theory of "Mike's Evolution" and start from scratch......

sean

Broken, Looks pretty close to being now. Looks to be in production soon.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~kmcleod22/turb/700.htm

OMG, I know I'm going to pay for this. God forbit I try to take this seriously. Anyway for those who actually care my idea is not to teach somebody on even a Facet... I actually stated that at least once for those who just skipped over my words. Take the power plant (or similar) above and design/build an airframe similar to a 60 or 90 size trainer and I'm sure you'd have no problem teaching somebody to fly with it. And I don't mean attach it with rubber bands. Designed by real enginers (i.e. myself and I recuit Wings as well) that have real world professional experience.

This plane would be about the same weight of your standard trainer and therfor be now more difficult to fly or any more dangerous. This project could easily be done today.

Pro: Push button starting and no dangerous prop on the front.
Con: Expensive and throttle lag.

This is all my point is and has always been on this time. BTW, college kids build stuff way more advanced than this all the time.

Now I'm sure I'll pay for this with some baseless "stupid" comment.

When they came out with the first computer that consisted of huge vacuum tubes that filled an entire room, I bet there was an idiot that said someday there will be computers in just about every home in America. I bet they gave him hell.

I think the context of this thread got out of whack. I took it as the poster was asking how you would react if someone came up to you at the field, right now, with the current technology of jet engines. In this case my personal opinion is that it would be foolish to learn on a jet engine plane.

However, it may not be as foolish in the future if they produce near the same thrust as a glow engine. I venture to say a lot more people would be less critical of your comments if we were talking about the future.


BTW, that was a pretty cool link.


Wings

I don't all of the procedures with the AMA, but you have to request a waiver to fly them. I think that you have to state that you have 20 flights a year to keep the waiver current. I dunno, I could be wrong.

Turbine as a first plane......I think it is an awesome idea.

I also drove to work steering with my feet today, not as hard as you might think!!


NYAHHH!! Take that all of you sheep!