OH, lets not even get into the full scale taildragger debate as it applies to R/C, there is no comparison. I've got close to 2,000 hours of full scale tailwheel time, from the Aeronca AC-11 I started out in, right up through radial engined Ag Cats and the 402 Air Tractor. I can tell you from experience that schools dont regularly teach in tailwheel aircraft because of insurance reasons. It has NOTHING to do with them being difficult to fly. It also has to do with the fact that most flight schools today are staffed with instructors that dont have much more time than the students they are tasked with teaching, and dont fly taildraggers themselves. A zero time flight student can learn just as easily starting out in a Super Cub as he can in a 152. Now, you take a guy with two or three hundred hours of tricycle gear time and put him in a Cub for the first time, THAT'S when you better have a good instructor to help him "unlearn" all the bad habits he's developed while flying trike gear. The simple fact is, whether you like it or not, it is just as easy to start out on a taildragger as it is to start on a tricycle gear, AS LONG as both types are trainers, and you have a competent instructor. I think some of you guys are of the opinion that if YOU didnt learn that way, then it just cant be done, and that is what is idiotic.

Sorry Hurricane90, What I said sounded harsher that it was intended to.

I was simply eluding to the fact that for some people (like yourself) learning to fly a taildragger is easy. Others can have a hard time with it.

And some Taildraggers are easier than others.

Since everybody's learning curve is different, and every taildragger is different, chances are (I'm not going to do the math) the person you're talking to will have a very different experience than you had.

I recommend that people start out with a nose wheel. Why? Here are 4 scenarios:

Scenario 1: You tell a newbie to start with a nose wheel, and he finds take offs easy.
Scenario 2: You tell a newbie to start with a nose wheel, and he finds take offs hard.
Scenario 3: You tell a newbie to start with a tail wheel, and he finds take offs easy.
Scenario 4: You tell a newbie to start with a tail wheel, and he finds take offs hard.

Now, his reaction in the 4 cases:

Scenario 1: Wow! Taking off was easy!
Scenario 2: Wow! Taking off was harder than I thought. Good thing I had a nose wheel!
Scenario 3: Wow! Taking off with a taildragger was easier than I thought it would be!
Scenario 4: Wow... YOU said I wouldn't have any problems with a tail wheel! Let's go pick up the pieces.

Now, YOUR reaction in the 4 cases:

Scenario 1: ATTABOY!
Scenario 2: Not bad, you'll get used to it.
Scenario 3: See? I told you that you could do it!
Scenario 4: Gee, I've never seen a plane do that before... Let's go pick up the pieces.

You suddenly find yourself in the awkward position of having told someone that you though they could do something that they couldn't.

We all have that line of thinking that "If I can do it, anybody can".

If that were the case, I'd have a much higher paying job

Minnflyer,

While all of the forces and factors are true that you indicated in your previous post, very few of them come into play in a taildragging trainer.

As you gain speed on your takeoff roll the tail comes up. Now with a trainer type it will only come up so far because the wing starts to fly at that point and the tendancy to nose over is a non event. This is strictly trainer aircraft. All of the physics you talked about are much more apparent with, say, a warbird where you spend a good amount of time on the mains while the wing is contemplating flying.

Likewise, a stronger wind will amplify the physics you spoke of as well.

(Quote: ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer)

(Scenario 1: ATTABOY!
Scenario 2: Not bad, you'll get used to it.
Scenario 3: See? I told you that you could do it!
Scenario 4: Gee, I've never seen a plane do that before... Let's go pick up the pieces.

You suddenly find yourself in the awkward position of having told someone that you though they could do something that they couldn't.)




MINN

That guy would probably have problems with all aspects of flying! but he still could become quite good - eventually.

What would be the consequences anyway? a broken prop? smashed up plane?

Answer, a cheap resilient "no frills" trainer, ( as I continually say), and no pile of sticks! - Then you can pick it up, dust it off and try again, - and a broken prop? - well that's nothing.

Of course, all this would apply to tricycle types as well, but look at the fun of the taildragger "challenge"??

Please don't take me too seriously.

Minn,
You are right, we all think that since I did it, anyone can do it. The thing is that there is a good progression that can be taken while learning to fly and if everyone went that route I think the results would be a whole lot alike. I try to just let people know the steps that I took and I truly think that everyone can do that same and be successful.
I would be willing to bet that Scenario 4 could be applied to trike gear trainers just as easily. You can't tell me that no one has crashed a trike gear trainer on take-off. As you said, everyone has a slightly different experience with their plane and we all hope that they are all as positive as possible.
I went against a lot of people's advise when I decided to start with the 4*. I was feeling very very anxious because of all of the negative talk about starting with taildraggers and low wing aircraft. But I followed my gut and I have NOT regret it one single day.
Thanks for the good debate on the trike vs. TD. [8D]

Doggscube, I would suggest that to you. After reading all of this, just go with your gut and have a blast in the process. Fly on a simulator (free FMS or other), get a good instructor and have fun.
Best of luck to you and let us know how it goes.

I guess that the gist of what I am trying to say boils down to "Giving advice".

For instance, If I learned to fly with a taildragger, even though it wasn't recommended, I would say:

"It may not be advisable, but I learned how to fly with a taildragger, and didn't really have a problem"

Translation:

"I did it, but that doesn't mean anyone can... You might be an idiot"

That's good advice.

Bad advice is:

"Go ahead and do it."

Because, Who knows? Maybe he really IS an idiot!

Its funny that a lot of people say its about the same either way.

I took off my LT 40 fine.

When I got my four star it took me several flights of gound loops and taking off perpendicular to the runway before I was able to take off decent.

I still ground loop now and then.

Hmm. Ive just brought my first RCplane now (standard Trainer with trike), and are just started construction. Never flown before, so i really dont know what is best to start with, so dont shoot me down if i talk all rubbish .

The only flying experience ive had so far is in various RC simulators, so no way can i answer this question. But im guessing that starting wiht a trike is somewhat easier than a taildragger. Thats my simulator experience so far. The taildraggers are more tricky to take off and land with than the trikes. This is true even in bigger simulators like Microsoft FLight sim and IL-2 Sturmovik. On takeoff its always abit scary when the tail begins to rise, and you are balancing on two wheels (especially as you have to make rudder input to keep it strait, and that withoht changing the trottle speed..). On a trike you have all 3 wheels on the ground untill the roll.

Also, on landing you always got that front wheel making sure you dont get the propeller into the ground. And you can always land on the tail if you tip backwards. Safety both ways, it seems.

So, while im sure that both types of planes make good starters, isnt it fair to say that, yes, trikes are "slightly" better and safer for beginners than a taildragger? But i guess its just like cars with automatic gears and manual gears. One is just abit more "work" than th e other, and you can learn to drive the car anyhow.

My first plane was a trainer with nose gear. My trainer took it off to trim it out and the right half
of the wing broke off. The next day I bought a taildragger.
I never got to takeoff or land with my one and only front wheel setup but now days it sounds scary to
me. I've had around fifteen taildraggers now and to me they are easy.
They always seemed easy to take off.
I''ll have to try me a bird with nose gear one day.

Nanuk

I just came across this thread, and I would like to add my 2cents.

My first plane was an Ultra stick 60 from H9. At first I was flying from paved school lots as well as grass fields and the outcome was always the same...a broken prop. I addded a Fults nose gear a great investment) and the all was fine. It was even more helpfull in keeping the nose out of the snow. I have since removed the trike set up. I crashed pretty good a couple of weeks because I had reversed the servo arm on my rudder. The rudder input was correct, but the no reverseable gyro was giving opposite info and after she lifted off, the plane plowed right into the soil. Prior to this incident the gyro helped me tremendusly. It helped me to fly on days I maybe would not have due to cross winds. It is also helped to concentrate on keeping the wings level and the gyro took care of staying on the approachwhile learning. This is a great first plane in my opinion. It will glide forever and is very manuverable after you get into arobatics.

Yep, that's pretty much the jist of it. I tried to spell it out that way but I guess it didn't work too well. I'm glad we all got that cleared up.
Not everyone can fly these things period. I've heard of people that have been on a buddy box for 10 years and will probably never fly without it. The only thing I want to get across to people is to not be so afraid to try a taildragger. When reading things on this forum a beginner can really get the impression that it should never be attempted. It's just not that scary. It's all about research and instruction. With that you are bound to get it right.

Yes, don't be freaked out, there really isn't too much to be freaked out about, - doesn't really matter whether it's a taildragger or tricycle
The worst thing that will happen if you crash is that you will lose a little money ( but only if you use an expensive fragile plane ), and maybe dent your pride a little!
It's not a matter of life and death, you're not in the plane.