I built a Cloud Dancer 60 from plans. Its about 8 1/2 lbs. Its easy to take off and a great flyer but the landings are something else. I believe the problem is that the gear is so stiff that if I get the slightest bit of a bump during touch down, the plane starts bouncing down the runway. Therefore I am only flying it on really windy days so that I can slow the plane down to almost a hover before touching down. I want to replace it over the winter and am looking for suggestions. I really want to get rid of the bounce on this plane so cost really isn't an issue if there is something that works well. Do I use Dural aluminum or should I go a bit heavier duty such as fiberglass gear?? []

I've used one of DuBro's new plastic gear on one of my planes... Haven't had a bounce problem with it and didn't seem to add much, if any, weight.

As already mentioned the Dubro firberglass gear works well as does any carbon fiber gear. I prefer the carbon as it can flex a little more and still not be bouncy.

I use the CF gear on my SIG Somethin Extra and it makes me look real good even if I come in a little hard, it just soaks it up. Kinda looks cool watching the gear flex on our rough runway and the plane just keep tracking real straight

I used the Dubro Fiberglass on my original LT-40 trainer and it was as tough as nails.

The problems you describe are typical of a conventional gear aircraft with the tire footprint in level attitude too far ahead of the CG. Sometimes just running the CG a little further forward or moving the gear back a little will improve things dramatically.

John

Are you talking about replacing the Cloud Dancer, or the landing gear? I would suggest that you keep the Cloud Dancer -- it is a first class flying machine. Have you tried low-bounce tires? Are you stalling it on in a 3-point, or "wheeling" it?

You can bend music wire to a V-shape and rubber band it to the bottom of the fuselage using J-hooks. Wrap with fine wire and solder it to the gear near the axle. If it's a dural gear, then solder on terminal lugs (electrical parts from Radio Shack) and bolt to the gear near the axle.

Add a little power before your actually touch down and it should reduce the bounce

I think JohnBuckner hit the nail on the head. Most problems with a tail dragger bouncing on landing is because the main gear is to far forward.

Ditto with John and Rodney

sorry just seen the title of the post....

BOUNCY TAIL DRAGGER....

thought it was about my ex wife.........

Often the problem with bouncy landings on taildraggers is the gear being too far forward of the CG. That being said; The nut that holds the sticks is more often than not the problem. Practice, practice, practice. Can anyone else at your field land your airplane with less or no bounce ?

I had the ARF version of these with a set of retracts. I did not have any trouble with bouncing on landing but I did notice one thing. This plane floats forever and letting it touch while its still moving fast enough to fly easily would result in a bounce. Maybe as the others have said move the wheel position and slow right down for landing.

Thankx all for your feedback and comments. Yes, I am keeping the plane, just not the landing gear. After reading your comments I now think that there is a combination of 2 problems. The LG is not per plans. The plans have the landing gear in the wings and I wanted it mounted on the fuselage, makes the plane easier to transport but it may have the lg too far forward of the cg. The second problem is that the wing loading is ver light like Grant states and it does float. If you add a touch of throttle as Geistware suggests, the plane will be climbing again so that isn't an option. That works on my Sea Fury, but that has a much heavier wing loading. I do have good low bounce tires so not much that I can do there. Ok, my options are to try new Carbon Fiber gear. Weight isn't an issue as the homemade gear is very heavy. If that doesn't work, I will install LG on the wings per the plans. I do have the landing gear blocks installed in the wing, just haven't used them. [8D]

You can also give a slight bit of down elevator once the wheels touch down...or relax the up elevator you are using to float. That, and giving a little throttle an inch or so off the ground will smooth out landings.

Ran into a problem!! I can't find carbon fibre landing gear for a 60 size plane! Any one know where I can get one??? [>:]

Wheels, carbon gear etc. is not going to change the behavior. If you wish to do that then you must change the landing gear geometry. You cannot work around the fact that your gear is to far forward. Now it is not neccessary to to move the gear back to the wing if you don,t wish to. Just cut a set of alummium flat gear that angles back as in an RV 4 and you can have the gear where it needs to be and on the fuse. Yet another even easier trick is to bolt or rivit a simple trailing link of alum plate to the gear for the axle. This was used by cessna for the C-140 when they screwed up and got the main gear to far back and in their case they extended the gear axle forward. I,ve used trailing or leading links on a number of models with alum gear that was not properly positioned very successfully.

John

Thankx for the idea John! Thinking things over, I remember some of my previous planes also had the landing gear moved from the wings to the fuselage and there was no landing problems. But the landing gear was also standard thin aluminum type and not 1/2 " thick heavy homemade. This landing gear has absolutely no flex or give to it so I am sure it at least contributes to the problem. That being said, I went down to the LHS and bought a standard 60 size gear. Will try that this weekend if the weather holds and if its still the same problem then I at least know for sure whats happening and will try Johns advice and see how that works. Get this figured out yet!! [&:]

Thanks fastsky, There are a lot of kits and ARF's out there with the gear not in an ideal location for nice smooth rolling landings. Some of the worst in that regard are the competition funflys and some 3D types. If you think about it though these airplanes have more forward gear for good reasons such as continuous loops and landings and things of this nature. They are off so quick and landings are so slow that the the gear need not be optimized for silky touch downs, but nose over protection is. Types such as pylon racers, pattern. scale warbird etc. that requires a resonable speed at touch down and subsequent rollouts will benefit from a more rearward wheel footprint in relation to the aircraft CG. Of course as is absolutely everything in aviation this is a compromise and the desire for smooth bounceless landings must be balanced by the need to not noseover.

Another consideration in this regard is the oft repeated rule of thumb that the landing gear should always be even with the leading edge. Well not necessarily, while this does usually work to a degree but is seldom perfect for any give wing design. What is most often overlooked is the simple fact that this does not take into account the wings aspect ratio. A low aspect ratio (short span/fat chord) wing will have its working CG range much further from the leading edge which will result in the gear to far forward if mounted at the leading edge. For a wing such as this for smooth nice landings the ideal position of the footprint is behind the leading edge. Now with a high aspect ratio wing (long and skinny) the distance from the leading edge to the working CG is much closer and the ideal. Here the footprint is ideally at the leading edge or perhaps a bit ahead of it. This is if both wing types are of the same area.


This has only been considering bouncy landings now the other important consideration of the gear position is directional stability when rolling on the ground with the gear further forward than need be the difficulty in maintaining a straight line at t/o or landings is incressed expotentially. For the best directional control the gears footprint should be as close as possible to the CG and still be able to resist noseover. The most directionaly stable gear of all is the main(s) even with the CG as are many sailplanes.

John

One thing that you can do sometimes is mount the gear backwards and this will put the axles closer to the leading edge of the wing. I usually shoot for about 1" or less. I have many times put the gear on th fuse instead of the wing as you did and as long as I keep the axles at or no more than 1" from the leading edge they all work good. You have to remember that the closer to the L.E. you get the more likely it is to noseover.

thankx rctrax, I should have thought of that and didn't! Now that you brought it to my attention, I will look it over tonight and see which way it is facing and get a measurement from the wing.