Sir Fliesalot

My Feedback: (2)

I agree with fourstroke except with the JR 6102 radio you can switch out the receiver between ten different aircraft no problem. You select which aircraft you want to fly on the transmitter. Since you are on limited funds, consider an ARF that includes a motor. (fuel power is an engine and electric is a motor) They are practically free and they work fine. The downside is the ESC will only work with other brushed motors. If you decide to go brushless then you will need a brushless type ESC. You could setup a high amp micro switch one servo for motor ON/OFF control and then use that servo later.

Sometimes it's cheaper to spend a little extra up front and buy once. Brushless is definitely better.

So to sum up-
If you are really low on funds, and want to fly NOW, go brushed with ON/OFF motor control or an inexpensive "brushed" ESC.

If you want the best that will last a long time and you'll have a smile on your face the whole time, get a brushless outrunner motor and a good high amp (25A) "brushless" ESC, LiPos and a good LiPo charger.

Whatever you do, do invest in LiPo power. It is the future of our hobby.

Good luck,
Mark

forestroke

i agree with sir fliesalot on the 6102 rx. i was actually referring to the aerobird rx not being reusable with the 6102.

and i didn't even think of the on/off esc!

anyway... i LOVE direct drive outrunner brushless... it is also the wave of the future.

biker_ray_pa

I have been in your precise situation. Buy a Mountain Models Magpie. Get the two-wing kit, so you can fly it as a three-channel, or as a four-channel with ailerons. I went from the Challenger to the Magpie, and I love it. You can't go wrong with the plane, and the folks who sell them are really nice as well.

http://www.mountainmodels.com/magpie.php



Ray out

zachj1212

thanks everybody! i have been reaserching, and talking to a lot of people, and i think that the eagl 400 is the plane for me. I am sure that i can fly it with a little help from my instructor on a trainer cord!

I am definatly going Lipo. I have been looking at chargers, and i found the Hobbico quick field charger. Is that way that it works, that you charge the charger, and then take i to the field, and i can charge batterys without pluging it in? I hope that that is the way that it works!

I also see that it is dc, but my parents won't let me use their cars to charge. I was thinking that there must be a ac/dc adapter!

Brushed vs. brushless. I will be putting brushless in my nice scales, like the wattaage cessna, or grouper monsun. I was thinking that i would try the suplied 400 moter, and if that dosn't work(short flight times, too noisy, heavy) i could change to brushless. What i mean by noisy is i fly only onth weekends, at around 7 in the morning, when it is not windy. I ride my bike 2 miles to the middle shool. There are some houses, so i don't want them to complain, and then i would be kicked off the field! I am gong to be using kokam 1500 Mah, 7.2v, 2 cell batterys. I will use an esc.

again, thanks for your replys. what do u think about the charger, ect, and tips!

thanks!


oh yay. I was thinking.... when i get my 3rd plane, i will have 2 planes that have my electronics installed. I am not going to touh the servoes, or engine, but i will be moving the reciever from plane to plane.

what about the esp? what if i soughtered some wire from the engine, then put a deans, and soughtered the opposite deans on the esp, then i could swithch that from plane to plane, right?

zachj1212

my instructor said that he would sell me a brushless moter/esp, for 25 dollars. O wuld prbably use it on the cesna though. I wouldn't risk puting it on the the eae 400.

forestroke

if your instructor will take you on the buddy box, then i don't see why you would not want to put on the brushless setup. just make sure that the brushless is fit for the trainer. you can ask your instructor his suggestion. $25 is cheaper than cheap and may not be enough power for the trainer. what kind of brushless and controller?

zachj1212

the esp is a 25a, and the engine is a engine that he says is equal to a speed 400. The reason why he is selling it to me so cheap is he knows that my airplane hobby is living of my 8 dollar a week alownace! anyway, could you please tell me if i could soughter a deans from the engine, and then one from the Esp, so the ESP could be interchanged throughout my collection of planes, when tht happens.

(i can't wait!)

forestroke

you could solder the deans for the brushed motor to the esc. but you can't use a deans for the brushless to brushless controller since there are three leads. but i'm sure you can find another way to make it also reusable for other planes.

anyway, nice guy... $25 for a brushless and controller is a bargain. personally, since he says that it's 400 size, i'd just go for the brushless/lipo set up from the beginning and just fly it with the instructor for a while. usually 400 size brushless is significantly more powerful than its brushed counter part, which is very nice when you're a beginner.

zachj1212

U am going to look in to how i can make the esp reusable for other planes, bit i thougt that i saw it conected with a dea ns....... i'll ask him when i can.

say that i went with a brushless setup for the eagle 400. what diferences would i feel?
i was worried about the brushless setup becasue
1. I would probably take it out when i get the cessna.
2, what if i lose it before i get the

cessna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also, if the bruhless setup could power the eagle 400, could it power the wattage cessna 182?

thanks

forestroke

of course... the wattage cessna shouldn't be a problem.

the deans do have a 3 prong plug but its for small brushless motors with loads up to 10A not 25A! anyway, i'm sure you'll find a good way to deal with it.

and about moving the motor, you're right. once you convert your plane to brushless, particularly outrunner types, it's hard to go back to brushed since the mounting is usually quite different. but once again, i'm sure if your instructor says it good and he's experienced, it's all good!

zachj1212

Thanks forestroke. How does the quick field charger work?

forestroke

i don't have any experience with the field charger. i use a kokam handy 2 smart charger that i picked up in korea and i love it. charges everything including 1-4 lipos.

if you're asking if you can use a 12V dry cell you can. however, understand that if you do, you also have to get a charger for that and always remember to charge it before the day.

for home use, see if you can find an old laptop adapter that your father doesn't want and see if the voltage is 12V, many of them are. if that's the case, you can use that adapter to power your charger when you are at home.

zachj1212

well.......... I ordered the eagle 400, and the jr 6102, and i am going to pick it up at the LHS this sat! I'll tell you how it goes,

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Zach,

You invited me to the conversaiton, so let me throw in my 2 cents.

JR 6102 - Excellent choice IF you can get it with light servos
and receiver. I believe there is a package that comes that way.
Othwise the servos and receiver will be too big and heavy for
most of the planes you are considering.

Now, you know I also started on an Aerobird and still fly it
all the time in additon to all my other parkies, gliders, slopers and DLG.

I left the Stinsen because of the planes you listed that is the one I like best.

If you are going Lipo, now is a good time to do it before
you develop a large inventory of NIMH or NICD packs.
The Aerobird packs can be used in other planes, so do take
that into consideration. I have used them in several myself.

From a battery pack point of view I have standardized on two
connectors, The little red BEC/GWS style connector for under
5 amps and the Deans ultra for all others. This way I can swap
packs between planes easily. Makes it easy to have the right
charger adapter as well.


As for planes - let me give you a few more to consider.
I am assuming you will be getting the JR radio, so no RTFs on this list.


These are 3 channel planes that have ailerons. Lots of fun, one less servo needed

Multiplex Space Scooter - ARF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGZV4&P=7
Video
http://www.bungymania.com/videos/fil..._sun_stunt.wmv

Zagi XS - ARF
http://zagi.com/index.php?main_page=...&products_id=1
Video page
http://www.zagi.com/index.php?main_p...812dbc8b76c42f


IFO - Easy to build kit
Demo at the 2000 Tournament of Champions
http://www.wildrc.com/htmlpages/movies/toc2000.mpg
Flying Combat in a gym
http://www.wildrc.com/htmlpages/movies/mk3combat.mpg


FOUR CHANNEL AILERON TRAINERS
These planes introduce the full set of flight controls consisting of
ailerons/elevator/rudder/throttle. They are a logical next step for the
pilot who wants to take their flying skills to full 4 channel control. All of
these planes can perform aerobatics, but are primarily designed as 4 channel
trainers with high wing designs . This makes them easier to fly but less
aerobatic than the mid or low wing planes. ARF & Kits
You can use your JR to do rudder to aileron mixing, flapperons,
flapperon to elevator mixing and other cool stuff


Mountain Models has a large number of very easy to build kits. Many have
two wings, a slow fly 3 channel wing and a 4 channel aileron wing. Why not have both?


Magpie - with both wing kits - $55
Easy to build Foam kit -
Has trainer wing AND and aileron sport wing
Master the first, then advance to the second.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/magpie.php
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...51#post3502851
Video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/Magpie.wmv

SmoothE - $50
Easy to build Balsa and foam
4 channel aileron trainer
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
Funny video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/SmoothEsmall.WMV

Mountain Models Dandy Sport - $45
http://www.mountainmodels.com/dandysport.php
Complete Package $155
Video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/ds1.wmv

GWS E-starter 400 - Simple Foam Kit - $50
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_inf...roducts_id=551
Available as a ARF complete package kit with radio - $150
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_inf...roducts_id=611

GWS Tiger Moth 400 - Simple Foam Kit - $70
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_inf...roducts_id=203
Complete kit including Radio - $175
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_inf...roducts_id=658
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=345
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazi...345/TM400m.wmv


Multiplex Magister ARF - $110
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXGZV2&P=ML
This plane is much larger than the others
Close to a .40 glow trainer in size
Review
http://www.smoothair.ca/reviews/Magister/magister.htm
Video - This is not with the standard motor
this plane has an upgraded brushless motor
http://plawner.net/video/magister_funday.wmv


So, now you have more to look at.

Not a bad plane in the bunch so you can decide which look good, or go with the Stinsen, or something else. Enjoy! Enjoy!

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

OOPS!

Missed your last post. You already ordered the Eagle 400. Looks like a nice plane. I am sure you will do very well with it.

I will state the obvious. This plane is not going to take the abuse the Aerobird took, but I am sure you knew that.

I would order at least 2 extra props and a prop saver, if they offer one. You WILL break a prop, and they are cheap, so might as well get at least 1, and I suggest 2.

Do you have CA? I would make sure you have some medium and some thin CA. Somewhere you are going to break something and CA is what you use to fix balsa planes. I like ZAP brand.

Tears in the covering can be patched with clear packing tape or scotch tape for small tears.

Hopefully you will never need the props, the CA and the tape. Forget that!

You are going to have a ball! And make sure you keep the Aerobird in good flying condition. No reason to restrict yourself to one plane. My Aerobird lives in my car and comes to the field with me every time. It is also great to get friends hooked and when you do, the Aerobird becomes your air to air combat plane, your bomb drop plane and your night flite plane with the X modules.

The Eagle will be your pretty plane, your aerobatic trainer and your growth plane.

Then you can move on to something else after that!!

Fast? Flying wing?

Glider perhaps ( I love mine!)

Maybe a 3D foamie

zachj1212

thanks aerjr. You always help alot! I am going to start flying the eagle 400 on a trainer cord. Then eventually, move on to fly on my own.

I think that a brushless engine would be the right way to go, because were i fly, it is a school field. I usually fly at 7:00 in the morning, and there are houses, Now what i don't want is them to complaen about the the noise!

My goal for this hobby is to create a fleet of scale airplanes. I already am looking at the wattage cessna 182, all balsa! http://www.globalhobby.com/public/wa...ery/128393.asp

My instructor offered me a brushless engine.esp for 25 buks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also think that an electricc glider is in line, along woth a beechcraft, monun, cub, mustanang, spitfire, dc-3, p-47 thunderbolt, super decatholon, f-16, corsair,...........................oops! getting a little carried away!

Anyway, i will probably get an electric glider soon, then i will have a nice collection of planes!


Anyway, thank you very much, and you have been a great help to me in this hobby, from the day i joined this forum, wich was the day that i ordered the aerobird!

Anytips?

thanks!

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Glad I have been able to help.

I do have a question. I do not understand the relationship between the brushless motor and not wishing to bother the neighbors. A speed 400 is nearly silent.

The prop makes more nosie than either motor.

However for $25 take the motor/ESC.

zachj1212

the aerobirds engine is 370, and my instructor is constantly telling me to keep it away from the houses............

what do you think about the kokam 1200mah, 2 cell 7.2 v, lipo batts? do you think that the 1500 is better?

forestroke

zach, if you ever think you're going crazy... just take a look at the forum about how many planes in our hanger! i've got 7 planes flyable and 9 planes being built or NIB and i'm not even that bad!!!

aeajr - i also recommended the skyscooter as a very good plane to have after the aerobird. also agreed with buying the brushless set IF it's in good condition and powerful enough to at least replace 300 motors. but at $25 i would think anything would be a bargain!

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Well you should not be flying near houses, regardless of what plane you are flying. However 90% of the nosise ie the propeller. The motor makes almost no noise at all. Pull the prop and run it. Nothing!

I don't run LIPOLY so I can't say.

forestroke

the 1200 or 1500 is the capacity of the battery. it is measure in current over time or mAH or milli ampere hours. there are two reasons why higher capacity is better:

1. length of flight - meaning that if your set up draws 5 amps (5000mAH) you can fly it for 1200/5000 hours or about 15 minutes on the 1200 battery. with the 1500 you could fly for 1500/5000 hours or about 20 minutes.

2. discharge rate - when you run your motor, it discharges the battery. depending on the lipo, it could have different maximum discharge rate which is generally based on the capacity of the battery, commonly referred to as C. therefore if you have batteries with the same discharge rate, which is measured in C's, you will be able to use more current (producing more watts of power) with the higher capacity battery. so lets say that both the 1200 and the 1500 have maximum discharge rates of 10C. this means that with the 1200 battery, at full throttle, you should only load it to 12 amps and no higher. with the 1500, you can pick a setup that pulls 15 amps at full throttle.

of course there are two considerations against the larger capacity. one is money and the other is weight. higher capacity batteries generally weigh more and cost more than lower capacity counterparts.

hope that answers your question

zachj1212

it says that the 1200 mah bat us 10 dollars cheeper than the 1500Mah. Is the 1500 going to change my flight experience? Do you think that i will noticce a difference?

SwampFlier-RCU

get the eagle 400

zachj1212

thanks swampflyer(?)! i did!

forestroke

you WILL notice the difference! you get almost 25% more stick time with the 1500 battery. is that worth 10 bucks more? that's for you to decide!!!