OK, as I stated in my first post here I am a noob. I have many, many (like MANY, I am hooked) flights with my ABC park flyer and have "mastered" it, even in too high winds, I have some full scale time (very little but I get it, you know) and am a recovering flight sim addict. Last week I got my first stick time on a gas trainer with a local club. My friend took his Sig trainer up high and gave it to me, no buddy box. I flew racetracks and figure 8s for a good long while.

Well the guys in this club say that I am very good for my time in the hobby and say that with more time on the trainer, up to a few solo circuits, I can just skip buying a trainer of my own and go straight to a U-Can-Do. They reccommend the .60 size.

Most of the guys in this club own one and they swear by them.

They say that with low throw rates and low engine speeds the U-Can-Do is as docile and slow-flyable as a trainer and should carry me through my beginner stage through intermediate and into some pretty advanced stuff all on one airframe.

My budget is very tight and I like the idea of one plane that can do it all so I am tempted. Another part of me sees this plane as pretty high end and I'm a bit intimidated by it.

So what say ye? Is the U-Can-Do mild enough when toned down for a newbie like myself or would I be biting off more than I can chew?

Thanks!

Hi!
How old are you.

JK

FiveO

I am going to skip the normal "you need to start on a trainer" speech. You already know that.

Now, I actually do not own the UCD but II have flown both the 60 and now the new Giant size (that's what GP calls it). On low rates for me, it's very docile. For a new pilot is can be a handful. "Easy to fly" is a relative term and is based on what you know.

So ask yourself the following questions which are based on your trainer time that you mentioned.

Were you completely comfortable with the glow plane to the point that you were able to do everything you wanted with ease?

You did not mention it but did you land and takeoff (glow engines have engine/prop torque tendencies which make the plane turn left as power is increased?

Are you able to do inverted flight for at least 3 full "laps" around the field?

IS you orientation good, meaning you have very little to no problem telling which way the plane is going.

Flight SIMS are a great help but do not emulate the plane totally. I takes a lot of adjustments on the sims to get a plane close. They also do not teach the proper way to start, tune, charge, trim and a whole lot more.

So, I'll go out on a limb here and say that yes, the UCD is a great plane and very easy to fly with the proper skills. I would suggest that if at all possible you get some more time on a glow plane and when you are comfortable with the above list and anything else someone may add then and only then get the UCD. If you go the UCD route right away, get an experienced pilot to do the maiden and buddy box you for the first few flights. Remember, it is a point and fly plane and will not try to recover to level flight should something go wrong. The UCD can last you a good long time if you approach it correctly.

Keep us informed and welcome to the madness of RC flight

If you do get the UCD, reenforce the firewall with some tri stock. It is just butt glued to the fuselage. A friend of mine had the engine/firewall pop out on a harder than normal landing.

36.

?

Thanks for the advice!

Yes I literally had NO problems with the trainer but only flew big racetrack patterns and figure 8s. I was able to keep the turns nice and coordinated with little to no altitude loss. I have not done a take off or landing with the trainer yet but plan to tomorrow. I have not flown inverted and don't think I will on this trainer, I think it wants to stay upright too bad...

My orientation is good (at least in upright flight) because of all of my parkflyer time. THAT I am confident of.

The guys reccommend that I be able to solo a few flights on the trainer before trying the UCD and yes I would certainly let someone else maiden and trim it for me as well as do the take off and landings for me the first few times.

Is there another plane that would have longer legs than a straight trainer that may be a bit easier than the UCD?

Thanks very much for the input!

FiveO,
What BubbaGates said is right on the money. But from reading your last post I don't think that you want to hear what he had to say, it sounds more like you are fishing for somebody to say "yes, you can learn on the UCD". Flying figure 8's is a far cry from being able to successfully fly an airplane. You said yourself that you can't land or take off yet. Taking of is easy, but landing is a skill that is probably the most difficult for any pilot to learn. As for flying your trainer inverted, yes it will fly inverted but it isn't easy. That's the point, if you can fly it inverted for 3 laps around your field then you have the skill needed to move up.

Like Bubba said, calling the UCD easy to fly is a relative term. Yes, your buddies say it's easy to fly but they've been flying for awhile and probably forgotten what it's like to learn. I see it all the time. As an instructor at your field (just solo'ed another student this morning) I see people all the time come out to the field just like you. Some sim time and they think that they can skip a trainer. In 7 years as an instructor I have yet to see the student that could skip the trainer. The UCD is designed for one thing, and that is to fly 3D. Yes it can fly slow, and it can do harrier landings, but that's not what you need to learn how to fly. The UCD is the type of plane that requires constant corrections and input when it is flying slow. Trainers are designed to fly stable, meaning flat and level without needing a lot of corrections from the pilot. That's what you need to learn how to fly.

It may seem that I'm being harsh with you, and believe me that is definitely not what I am trying to do. I am just trying to get a point across that you need to spend time on the trainer before you move to the UCD. The skills that you learn on the trainer will serve you once you move up to the UCD.

Hope this helps.

" Is there another plane that would have longer legs than a straight trainer that may be a bit easier than the UCD? "

I would suggest a 4 Star or a Tiger II as a very good alternative to the UCD.

They will not do 3D, however they are the frequent choice for a 2nd plane. They are aerobatic, low wing and land at more of a trainer's speed (The Tiger II lands faster than the 4* and can be set up for tricycle gear or as a tail dragger ).

Either of these planes is also more durable in the event of a harder than usual landing. The UCD MUST be landed gently or there is a very high probability you will have fuselage damage/breakage just in back of the trailing edge.

FiveO..... bubbagates gives some great advise!!
I have the UCD 46/YS 63... This plane is so easy to fly and land..
It'll float forever... Well almost:-) And because of that it lands
easy.... And I for one think the UCD with a forward CG and low
rates will be a great trainer.... But..... Only you know your skills
3D type planes are built "light" which means they "Will" not take
much if any abuse... So landing "lightly" on it's wheels is a must!
I have not heard of any firewall problems unless your going to
really over power it... But the landing gear "will" need to be
reinforced.. If not you will rip it out... I just added some C.A. on
the 1/4 angled bulsa and epoxied to the four corners above the
L.G. block and it has worked great for me.... Also some has
reported stab. failures, So a few people(me) added tail wires for the
added protection piece of mind.
A few people say the 46 size flies better that the 60... Visit the
UCD thread's.. Ton's of tips and info there....

I have a U Can Do 46 size. I have an OS .46 AX in it. It does land easier than a trainer. Flew mine this afternoon and on one landing,
it was like a harrier coming in. There was another guy at the field with the giant size. He had an OS 1.60 in it. On 2nd flight,
while he was going straight up, the elevators got screwed up (one was up, the other down). Plane came down nose first and kissed the ground hard! Engine was stuck in dirt about 10 inches. Plane is total loss.

Dave...

FiveO,

Let's take a look at your response and I'll give you my opinion at the end.

racetrack and figure 8 patterns are a good start but BIG is not what the UCD likes to do. [sm=thumbup.gif]

Seeing that you have not landed or did any takeoffs is not good [sm=thumbdown.gif]

Trainers are designed to want to stay upright. The dihedral in the wing sees to this. [sm=thumbup.gif]

That's a good thing that you have orientation down well

The guys are giving you decent advice, not excellent but decent.

The are other planes that are just as good as trainers. World models makes a straight wing, fully aerobatic high wing trainer called the SkyRaider Mach II or Mach I for $70.00 bucks. It's a nice flying machine but it is built somewhat cheaply and will not take lots of abuse but are very aerobatic with a fully symmetrical wing. The other recommended planes like the 4 Star series and tigers are great 2nd planes. I have successfully trained students on the 4 Star planes but it does increase the learning curve to a degree.

Now for my opinion.

I recommend that you get a trainer and do everything you can do on it. Trainers will do aerobatics, but they will not be pretty or perfect. If you can fly inverted for 3 laps on a trainer then you definitely have good control as the trainer will fight you by trying to return to upright flight.

I will also recommend that you DO NOT train on the UCD. There is a good chance you will destroy it in short order. As was mentioned they are built to do one thing very well and that is 3D. They will not take the abuse that someone in training will dish out. Think about it, if you can do greased landing from your very first one and do them pretty much all the time then you are already much better than when most people on here were when they started out.

Greasing the landing on a SIM is not a good measure of how you will land in the real world. I know it's not want you wanted to here but that's life. You can be one that learns and picks things up quickly, I know I am but I did start out on a trainer, then went to a Twist and a 4 star 40 both in the same day. Everyone thought I was moving too fast but now they see me competing in IMAC.

Heck, my original instructor still smiles to this day when he sees me fly.

As RCKen said, the skills you learn on a trainer will definitely help on the UCD. We are not trying to discourage you or put you down. We are trying to help you see that making this kind of jump will lead to disappointment and more only to repair the UCD.

Here is a link to the World models planes I was talking about

[link=http://www.airborne-models.com/html/productdetails.asp?ProductID=16]The Low Wing Version[/link]

[link=http://www.airborne-models.com/html/productdetails.asp?ProductID=15]The High Wing Version[/link]

lease let us know what you end up doing and how you are progressing and as I said before, welcome to the addiction err hobby

FiveO.. Let me retract some of my post above... I only read your
first post and missed your second about not landing etc.. Your first
post stated that you have "mastered your park flyer" But then you
say that you have not taken off or landed... That's not good... as
bubbagates and RCKen has said and given you Great Advise!! Get
or fly a trainer and include take-offs and landings.. If you can
land it nice and smooth and where you intended it to go.... Then I
would offer my advise above with the warning " Built light, No abuse
and needs to be landed "Soft"... A trainer will teach you a lot, I started
with an Avistar, But wanted to start with a 4*60.. My instructor did not
go for that..... But he now says, I believe you were right on the 4*...
But one things for sure I did learn a lot from my Avistar... First plane
that I hovered.. Only about 15sec... But it did it:-) And its still put to
good use!! Have Fun and Be Safe!!

here's a link to a post i started saying pretty much the same thing you are saying

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_22...tm.htm#2223393

I only have a minute and I'll get back later but just to clarify I have hundreds of take offs, landings and touch and gos with my park flyer (Aerobird Challenger) but not on a gas plane. That may change tomorrow!

As my earlier thread indicates I was all set to buy a trainer but the guys in the club keep pushing for the UCD... I feel like I would be telling them I did not trust their reccommendation if I go in another direction you know? I have really done everything one can do with that ABC and I am really good at it (how can one say that without sounding like a butt? [8D]) and that is a big part of why the guys are saying to just solo a few times on the club trainer and get a UCD for myself.


I really appreciate all of the input and will get back later this evening!

I would for a four star or other low wing trainer. It will be fine for you.

FiveO

Takeoff's and landings with a park flyer are not the same. Takeoffs with a glow plane (read that as heavier) are much longer with some exceptions based on plane/engine combo and landings are just as long or longer

On average you need 50 -75 feet for the takeoff roll and at least the same for the landing if not more depending on conditions such as grass height/asphalt/wind/temperature. The Challenger probably only needs 10 -25 feet for both in high grass

Now the final decision is up to you. No one here will "judge" you as it seems you think the guys at the field will. All I'm saying is it's up to you and only you. What everyone else thinks should not matter but in the real world there are people that will judge based on what they can do/say/own. This is unfortunate but is a fact.

Good luck in whatever you decide. As I mentioned before, let us know how it is going with your training. We will not judge but we will offer advice and encouragement. The decision is always up to you.

GOOD THINGS HAPPEN WITH PATIENCE!! Im a desperate warbird fan, and i was lucky enough to have been "given" a trainer, by the most generous person in the world , J3FAN. So let me tell you one thing, no offense, but if you didnt land with your trainer yet, damn, i take into consideration that you will learn tomorrow, so good for you. After you solo your trainer, do what i did. Just keep it and fly with it as long as it lives. After my 3-4 flight after my solo, my instructor gave me his warbird on low rates, and to my surprise it was easier to land, it was stable and docile. Im sure that by the time i give uop the traienr, ill be more then ready, and thats what i suggest you do. Get a trainer, or if your confident, a 4* or a tiger II. Just fly and have fun. People will "lend" you planes, and then youll know if your ready.

Good luck.

Samolot.

I have found 3 d aircraft are capable of changing directions and orientations very quickly on landings if corrections are not automatic and instinctive then you can be in trouble when you are low to the ground and a gust hits you in the front quarter and slows and lifts a wing about 30 degrees. You will have to make an immediate aileron correction and blip the throttle to recover flying speed so it does not touch a wing down and stall out. A plane like the 4 * and tiger will not get flipped as much but also be able to weather the harder landing. the 4 * and tigers are really fun and will teach you to fly more precisely and build your skills. You will probably do less damage to 4 * and tiger when the inevitable incident happens where are a 3d airplane is so lightly made that they can not take any excessive force. Using the 4 * will save your budget while developing your skills. Do not worry about what the other pilots will say if you do not get a ucando because they are not paying for it. You are going to learn how different any lower wing aircraft flies from a trainer you should have a slightly tougher aircraft for the first few bumps. It took me awhile to be able to land my planes without 3 bounces or banging them so hard off the ground that even though the plane was stalled it was still climbing. I was breaking props every day for the first month I was soloing but this was me you might be better. My first low wing plane lasted 4 months and had to be retired because it had grown to heavy from epoxy. 3d planes do not tolerate epoxy well, the weight throws them off.

I am currently learning on a Tiger 2, i have never flown a trainer. I am learning with an instructor with a buddy box. I know a lot of people view the 4* or Tiger 2 as perfectly acceptable trainers. They have excellent flight characteristics and are still capable of some pretty cool aerobatics. I dont know about the 4*(i only mean that i have never built one so i cant comment) but the Tiger 2 is a very sturdy plane(no, i have not crashed it) it is designed very well.

Five O,

As a recently adopted back into the fold pilot, I did essentially what you are talking about. The difference is that I flew for about 5 years then gave it up for 25 years. (Hey, when you're 16 and just get you're car, girls smell better than Nitro)
Fast forward to the ripe old age of 41 and girls still smell pretty good, but I missed the nitro.
I re-startedwith a U-Can-Do and I feel like it was a great move for me. Please keep in mind however, I had 5 years of stick time in before I quit. These planes are fun, but they don't forgive easily, and you can find you're self in a world of hurt fairly rapidly. Just flying this plane at full throttle can get you in trouble. I think that the best rule of thumb is to fly something until you are bored of it, all the while planning you're next plane.

Good luck on whatever you decide. THese forums are great, lots of good quality advice here.


Tom

a great trainer is the Hanger9 Alpha 40 or 60. im thinking that a UCD is a little too much for a noobie

Five-O,

I was just talking to a guy at our field today and I suggested that he get himself a Great Planes Big Stick 40. I fly a Big Stick 60 but the 40 is a bit less expensive..........but neither will break the bank. These planes are carrying on the tradition of the Midwest Stik's of the 70's and 80's. They are a step up from a trainer, they have no dihedral and a fully symetrical wing. You have to fly them but they are very forgiving.........even in the wind. They are a lot more fun than your routine trainer and with the right engine on them, they will scream. I have been flying RC for over 25 years now and I always have a Stick or two in my hanger. Don't go to a Hanger 9 Ultra Stick..........they are great airplanes but real hot rods, so to ease yourself into this, I would still recommend the Great Planes Big Sticks.

Just my two cents.
Andy

well what do now we have a winer hear AMA eat year words they sad park fliers would runen the AMA hear we have park flyer's going AMA flyer thats good news.I have all 4 u can do's ther the best for what they do but they are made light and will not take any abuse like a good traner if you have mastered a foamy you won't have any problem flying a ucd just landing them is different and thats Ware thay well make it hard for you the landing gear block comes off with just the a hop its up to you rebuild or start with a trainer.

But get help ether way seting up and flying gas planes is differant.

Well as I said I was concerned that the UCD was a bit much for me and it seems that that is the consensus. Unless one of the guys lets me get some time on one and I know I can handle it I will pass.

I like the looks of the Sky Raider and the Big Stik has been a plane I considered from the start. The 4* and Tigers are more expensive than the UCD but I assume they are tougher?

I know I need traditional trainer time (and will get some on the club trainer today and in the future!) and I by no means equate park flyer time with gas time but I think I would be well served with a "second" plane in my case. I just think I would quickly outgrow something as tame as a Nexstar or similar.

That said, are there any other tough, slow flight capable, yet at least mildly aerobatic, low or shoulder mount planes out there I should look at? Low cost is good. Hey! I'm not asking much here am I?

Gentlemen, I do appreciate the shared knowledge and experience! How did anyone get anything done and done right before internet forums?

I'll let y'all know how my flying goes today.

I submitted my AMA app mere minutes ago, BTW! I'm now bonafide, just gotta get certified!

I agree with rcandy - get your self a Stik (even build it with the dihedral if you can it's not that much) The plane is still a high wing ( a little more stable), but fully aerobatic. Set up with low throws in the beginning , learn how to fly it, then increase the throws. The U-Can-Do is a great plane, but maybe a fourth or fifth plane for experience levels. The Stik is a great trainer for primary aerobatics, and will win at fun-fly's once you feel comfortable. Plus, it won't break the bank for costs. I've had about five of them and curerntly have one now that was given to me. Plust the good ole Stik is a tough as nails bird that is easy to fix if it gets broke and lots of room to install the electronics is. I've even seen some that had flaps. Good Luck