I see a troll in progress, but I cannot resist.

I have just one question, well maybe two or three...

What then do you recommend he train on?

And if ARF trainers are not the way too go then why are so many sold and successfully flown and are still flying? If you take a lightly built trainer and get a student that is just having a hard time landing, he will spend most of his time repairing. It's a compromise as is everything else in flying.

Learning to fly is not all about the plane. Yes, the plane is at best 50% of the learning curve and there are planes that are not good first planes, but the way the student is instructed is just as important and also in the end it's all about skill level. I along with most everyone here have seen people claim a radio hit/glitch only to ask certain questions and find out it was completely something else as this exact thread has shown.

If a student is taught how to "fly the wing" using a lower powered engine, then that student will understand aerodynamics much better and in the end be a safer pilot. Having "too much engine" is a good thing for getting out of trouble and a few other things, but it does promote a habit that has it's good and bad points. It gives you a somewhat false sense of security in that you know you have the extra power when needed but you then start to "rely" on that knowledge and in one case with the original creator of this thread, his extra "power" got him into trouble which was a contributing factor in his first crash right after solo as he went full power on his Super Tigre, pulled it off the ground and it went vertical and tip stalled.

Now lets take a look at 3D flying, I like it, I do it, as it teaches the art of fine aircraft control and I need that for me to be more competitive in IMAC. A hover can be the most boring thing in the world to watch, but take a look at the control surfaces, especially the elevators and the rudder, and listen to the engine. The pilot is working very hard to maintain a certain flight attitude. That is a great example of control. Using everything you have all at the same time. Yes, the proper plane setup helps allot but now do it in a pretty stiff wind. So much for proper plane setup.

The other thing is precision aerobatics. In IMAC up to unlimited, you are flying precision, most of the time on low rates. Even though you have excess power, you are not using it. Unlimited and Freestyle are totally different matters and get into the realm of 3D. In competition, you are flying a set of maneuvers that are judged not on the look of the plane but it's track through the air. In depth knowledge of the plane is an absolute must as well as aerodynamics. Take a look at videos of IMAC schedules and you may very well see the plane crabbing into the wind, BUT, it's track is straight across the sky. Now how do you suppose he/she is doing that.

All I am trying to say is lower powered planes can be fun and is another way to teach proper flying techniques. I have all my students fly both upright and inverted at a speed just above stall and then we move into landings. I feel as an instructor, this is a great way to teach slow speed handling and really sets them up for the first landing. They usually want to kill me afterwords , but it's easy to see the skills that it teaches.

Here's my point, pig.
With a competent instructor, the size of the plane matters not. In fact, perhaps one of the best trainers out there is the Sig Kadet Senior with it's 80 inch wingspan. Bigger planes are easier to see, and respond much more sluggishly to controls--small planes get hard to see at any distance, and orientation becomes an issue. Not to mention that a small plane with a short wing/chord will react much more quickly to control stick movements.

Bottom line--40 sized trainers are perfect for their job, so go and troll somewhere else. Anything else you say will be filed in the part of my brain reserved for idiots.

My point is not about a smaller plane than a typical .40 sized trainer, it is about one that weighs much less, takes less time to build, less money,easier to repair and still responds sluggishly to control commands. I'm talking about a 6 foot span glider as one example of such a plane. I was soloed by the hobby shop owner on one of these in a half hour after he got it trimmed out, showed me a few things and was confident that I could land it. I learned 80% of what I needed to know about controlling a model, never crashed it and finally sold it to a friend so he could learn to fly. 2 Slow, I'll bet you're shooting down something that you've never tried. It is a shame to see as many young guys show up at the field [as I have] with their 6 pound .40 ARF trainers, shortly after being soloed, only to go home with a garbage can liner full of junk. Many of these guys never return. The guys who learn on gliders usually have much better luck. There is always time later to move on to the heavy, more powerful trainer as a second plane. One more thing, 2 Slow, grow up a little, maybe the ARMY would do you some good?

Alright, it's time to I'm just as guilty here but it's time we get this thread back on track, please

BG, You don't make your living selling .40 sized trainers, do you?

No, I make my living doing packet/binary level work for a very well respected computer security testing firm.

I fly to enjoy myself doing all sorts of things from sport flying to IMAC using .60, .120, 1/4 scale and soon 1/3rd scale aircraft. I also instruct flying R/C aircraft. I also work at the LHS next to our one field and we do sell a ton of SIG LT-40's, Kadets, 4 Stars. I usually end up successfully teaching those same people we sell the planes to and I enjoy it all.

I like you, soloed very quickly but not as quick as you. The thing is I have never forgotten what it was like to fly the first time and I enjoy passing that info on using whatever the student wants to fly within reason. What I mean is I will not teach a person that has never had any stick time on a 1/4 scale plane or even a 40 size 3D model.

Since I am sure of where this is going to go I'll add this. I have seen people learn to fly on gliders as well as "normal" trainers, park fliers and the like. We even have a totally different set of certificates for powered and unpowered flight in our. Since I personally do not like to fly gliders I usually let another instructor use that type of plane for training.

As I already mentioned, learning to fly is one half the instructor/trainee and one half the plane.

I will no longer be a part of this thread...

Bubbagates is nicely hinting that it's time to get this thread back on track.

I'll go one more. I'll ask nicely, please get this thread back on track.

I hope that everybody in here knows how to work and play well with others, so let's all just work and play well with other now.

If for some reason that's not possible, then I'll close this thread down.

back to original....

sounds like a tip stall due to lack of airspeed/experience...
(Hmmm...it is a big no no to fly alone at our club...........)

to me it sounds like more flight time on the trainer..... save that 4* for a while.....

It also sounds like he yanked the plane off the deck too soon, not enough airspeed and a stall resulted

Vogan, That was one thing i made sure not to do. I have done that 2 times. I let it go on the ground at least 200 feet.

Sorry
Now that's a scary thought!

ok, for an update. Last night i was bending back a tourqe rod, and ended up braking it (yes it was metal, i was very surprised..) I now could replace it or do dual aileron servos. I chose the latter... IT will be easier and HOPEFULLY get to fly by this weekend since i am out of prison tommrow...

Chad, keep the LA in your trainer. As I said earlier, having lower power will make you a better pilot. It may not seem that way now, but it will be valuable later. Make sure you climb at shallower angles and keep your air speed up.

I haven't flown much lately, so I feel a bit rusty. This means I took my "beater plane" to the field yesterday. It's not so pretty, but if flies great, has an estimated top speed of 80-90 mph, can takeoff in about 10 feet, and after takeoff it can do a nearly vertical climbout. However, all of my takeoff runs were long with nice shallow climbouts. In fact, I think they were more shallow than any of the 5 or 6 trainers that were at the field. The reason I did this is to force myself to practice smooth, controlled takeoffs rather than horsing the plane off the ground. These skills come in handy when I fly something less forgiving, such as my World Models P-51.

The point to this story is that the LA on a trainer will encourage you to develop these skills, and you can use them later on any plane regardless of the power. I see all too many trainers with higher powered engines climbing out at 60+ degrees flight after flight. Some of these pilots get a rude awakening when they move their engine to a plane with less lift and a higher wing loading.

Once you get the plane flying again, think about these things. For the snap, get your plane many mistakes high, and with an experienced person helping you, force it into some stall/spins and practice recovering. Do it over an over until recovery is second nature.

I have gentle climbouts taken care of. With my G-51, I see how shallow i can climb out. It is a good way for me to practice. anyways... its gettin late and that means bed for the last day of school...

I had it almost 100% repaired and then i was running the engine and th firwall ripped out and then i got too frustrated and kicked the plane/threw it/ got a bad temper. I rushed to fix it and now it will not be fixable. It will be at least a month till i get back up in the air.. I have to buy a new plane.

see post 51

To not get so stressed on wanting to fly. I now need to find a cheap plane. I want an arf. I was thinking of the tower trainer. Any other opinions...

I almost want to quit flying. I am just very frustrated and don't want to spend MORE money on this hobby at the moment. I think i might just no fly anymore.

If anything you need to control your temper or find a new hobby, boxing maybe?
I just got done pulling my engine a half a dozen times looking for an air leak which turned out to be a pin hole in the fule line. I had just replaced all the lines so I was not looking there that hard. I had also replaced all the gaskets.
I was not happy, I was downright pissed by the 6th time I yanked it. But I did not start throwing things, smashing things and yell at my wife.
I took a walk after the last time, thought about what I did check and replaced and calmed down. Found the problem and was able to fix it without the added cost of a new plane.
At the very least get a punching bag to blow off your steam.

My Tower trainer flies just as nice as the Alpha

The new plane is a must. Everyone calls this the tank trainer because of the horrible repair work i have done. I am not the biulding type.

I see 3 choices and one necessity.

Choices:Superstar ARF @$100
Tower ARF @$60 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCAS2&P=7
Quit
If you buy a plane, build a basic, no gadget, learn to fly plane. There will be plenty of time later for bomb drops, paratroops, missiles or whatever. For now, FLY. OR NOT.

Necessity, required no matter which option you choose from above. Take control of your temper, it will lead you into trouble. That I can promise you, it did me.

Also, you need to slow down and think things through. How many times have we told you this. If you had taken your time and done a proper repair on your plane, none of this would have happened. Take the rest of the day off from flying and relax. Do something else you like to do. It's your first day out of school, enjoy it.

If I were you I would get the Tower trainer kit. Ask your dad to help you build it so it is done right. TAKE YOUR TIME! You have your whole life ahead of you.
Join a club and get a well respected instructor and listen to him.

"The new plane is a must. Everyone calls this the tank trainer because of the horrible repair work i have done. I am not the biulding type. "

Few are born builders. It is a learned skill. Again, it can NOT be rushed. I was your age several centuries ago and I know everything needs to happen yesterday. Well, it can't always. that is why there are ARF's and RTF's. I build kits because I make time and I find it relaxing. If I don't have time, it sits for weeks on end untouched. That's OK for me, I have other planes to fly. You aren't to that point yet I know, but can be some day.

The only reason I said kit and not ARF was because of the crappy covering job on my ARF. The thing was nothing but wrinkles. I tried a heat gun on it but it had no effect.
Guess if you get one with a crappy job you could alway recover it if you want.