Back in the dark ages (the 50's and 60's) there were a lot of Class II airplanes flown. Class II were typically only rudder/elevator with throttle. A well designed Class II plane is a joy to fly with loops, rolls, and inverted flight like any airplane with ailerons. About the only thing you can't do is knife edge flight.

Rubber bands do last a long time if you clean them after use. And before reusing them, stretch each one to make sure it doesn't break.

Chuck,

Excellent points...I hadn't considered the fact that flying rudder only on an aileron equipped trainer would be different from flying a rudder only plane.

As for being more difficult, as I said...i suspect that was partly because of the aerodynamics, and partly because of the inexperience of the pilot. I also suggest that having LEARNED to fly with ailerons, it was that much MORE difficult for an inexperienced pilot like me to NOT use them.

And I won't even TOUCH the rubber band thing...

Guess I am just in a pickle as to whether to bite the bullet.


Most Clubs offer trainer or orientation day/night. Give you a try it before you buy it oppurtunity. Get with one and get on buddy box both with electric and glow. Then you can make a more informed decision. I know it helps if you have a plane that your not familar with to have someone who is buddy box with you and let you get the feel for the plane.( Cheaper too, deduct the crash cost)

Chuck,

I agree that overpowering can be counterproductive. But what I was talking about is models that struggle to stay airborne because the thrust-weight-ratio is not enough; add in ANY wind, and these lead sleds are basically unflyable. And all for 5-7 minutes... But the glitzy ads show them zooming and soaring.

And I fail to see the distinction between the manufacturer of a cheap, cheesy POS and the conglomerate that markets/sells same. But you're right; we're straying too far off topic with that.

Store your rubber bands in a closed container (a clean butter/margarine tub works great) of corn starch. The corn starch absorbs the oil and keeps the bands usable for a surprising amount of time. A bit of a mess, though; be sure to stand upwind when taking them out of the container...<BG>

There was a thread on this a while back. The consensus was that #64 rubber bands can be had so cheaply, there is no sense in trying to re-use them. Agreed; but if you have a wide-chord wing like the Sig LT-40, that needs a bigger (#67) rubber band, THOSE puppies are neither cheap nor easy to find.

Steve, I agree, many of the electric "beginner" plains are basically a POS. Fortunately, some of them are not, and I wanted to be sure the OP understood that the issue wasn't electrics in general, just a certain category (that I would call toy planes). Last time I was at the field someone flew an electric Sr Kadet! It wasn't a rocket, but it had plenty of power. Of course the price tag on the Lipos he was using was probably outrageous.

It's been a long time since I flow a plane that needed rubber bands to hold down the wing. In fact, over 20 years. I recently happened across the old tupperware container that I used for recycling the bands (I used baby powder). I was quite amazed that the bands that were still in there were still soft and flexible. In fact, the unused ones that were in the original box had all dried up. I've also heard that kitty litter works well. If I built another plane that needed bands I would still recycle, but that's cause I'm a cheap b@$+@rd.

I would rather not deal with a rubber band wing either. But when faced with the decision of:

1. Do I spend the time necessary to modify an ARF to a bolt-on wing, or...

2. Get the model ready to fly to mollify a seven-year-old who has itchy britches and wants to fly NOW...???

With the LT-40, I chose number two. I just ordered him a Midwest AeroBat that he doesn't know about yet, for his tenth birthday. I might take the time to convert that one to bolt-on; but then, I just bought a new one-pound box of #67s from Sig. Hate to see them go to waste...

You're right; the price of those li-po packs is larcenous. I alluded to that in my first post in this thread. One can indeed have e-power equal to glow; but you're going to pay dearly for it.

I think it's useful to leave rubber bands on trainer planes. The wings stand a much better chance of surviving the occasional brush with the runway than if they're bolted down.

I hate to do this, but which are the "toy planes" and which are decent electric park flyers? Examples? For beginners like me, it is hard to tell the difference. I mean, I know the stuff you buy at walmart is probably toys, but at the hobby shop, what is toy, and what is real?

Thanks for all the posts, and keep them coming. Also, just for background, I am a mechanical engineer by trade, so don't be affraid to get technical. Just watch the lingo, because I don't have that yet.

This IS really helping me.

Greg

Greg,

I've only seen a few of the entry-level PF (those aimed at newbies) models; and they were all underpowered by glow standards.

Specifically, the shoulder-wing "planes" with the motor mounted facing rearward on the trailing edge of the wing, featuring a stick/tubing for an empennage. Sorry, the model name escapes me, but these were from Horizon.

Another friend had a VERY flimsy Tiger Moth bipe; dunno who made it, but the LHS sold it to his wife as a "real R/C model just like the gas planes". Right... In calm air in a well-lit parking lot at ten P.M., it flew okay. But during the day with normal 5-10mph (or more) wind, forget it. Oh, you could keep it airborne. But it was like flying a freakin kite.

As we have mentioned, you can have an electric model that performs just like a glow powered one. But the batteries and necessary high speed/low drag charger will cost more than a complete glow set-up; plane, radio, and all.

You really need to go to the electric forum and talk to those guys. I would not be surprised to learn that there is an "intermediate" class of e-powered planes that won't bust your budget, yet perform better than these sorry little toys the hobby mongers are trying to thrust upon you.

IMO the Sig Kadet EP 42 is a great full house electric plane/ trainer. I did opt to put in a brishless setup the gives a good 20+ min. of flying time on a 2100 mah li-po. It flys pretty quick and basic arobics are very dooable. The stock power setup is not too bad either but the brushles has just a tad bit more power!!! It is pretty expensive to get it all set up but its quiet, clean and once it is set up there is nothing to getting it into the air.

Are there ailerons on the SIg Kadet EP 42??. I sam searching an electric beginner airplane with ailerons. I think the SIG Kadet is a good choice for me, if it has ailerons.

Any opintions on Hanger 9's new P-51 PTS TRAINER! Yes, I said p-51 and trainer in the same sentence. Here is the link.


http://www.hangar-9.com/PTS/Main.aspx

Anyone seen / flown one yet??

I think it is a neat idea.

How well it pans out remains to be seen...

Are there ailerons on the SIG Kadet EP 42??. I am searching an electric beginner airplane with ailerons. I think the SIG Kadet is a good choice for me, if it has ailerons.

Yes, the Sig Kadet EP 42 does have alerons and is a lot of fun to fly.

[link]http://www.gws-online.com[/link]hi mate im gonna get shot down for saying it but if you want to buy a 4 channel plane and fly it try the gws e starter my mate has one and its brilliant!!.its easy to fly verry stable and flys well at slow speeds.it also flies well at faster speeds and will do loops rolls etc!!.theyre cheap and fix real easy take a look at it?[img][/img]also take a look at the link and check out the prices.these foam planes are indistructable as you can fix em in a few minutes no matter how many pieces theyre in!!!.if you need a link to some videos of one i can supply them too ,good luck and have fun!!!

i have flown both 3 and 4 channel planes and i don't really see that much difference in them as a beginning plane as long as you start with a 4 channel radio. for 3 channels, instead of putting the rudder on the rudder channel, i use the aileron channel so that when my students move up to aileron planes, they don't feel it is so different. of course most people will argue that this breeds bad habits (not using the rudder) but 3 channel electrics are just cheaper. plus, with the super dihedral of rudder setups, they are great for teaching new students. it works just like that pilot assist by righting the aircraft. in fact, it's hard to fly inverted for long with rudder setups.

so for basic teaching and flying, rudder may be even easier to learn than aileron. for basic aerobatics, however, while there are aerobatics you can do with a rudder only set up, aileron set up is significantly better.

so in a nutshell, 3-channel (rudder) may get you started faster, you will be able to grow more with the 4-channel (w/aileron) set up.

Kadet Electric (EP42) IS A GREAT ELECTRIC WITH AILERONS.

uPGRADE TO OUTRUNNER MOTOR AFTER YOU PLAY WITH THE STOCK MOTOR A WHILE....

Hey,

Here is my $.02 worth. I just got into the hobby in Dec. '04. I joined a club and had a instructor to teach me. He instructed me to get the Hobbico Avistar and a OS .46 engine. The best advise I got. It is a great first plane and great 2nd plane. Take my advise and the advise of the people on RC forum about the avistar. It is a great plane. I love it. Make sure you get the .46 engine. You can grow into the engine and you will not get bored after you learn how to fly it. The way to grow into the engine is just use a slow prop and as you learn just change the prop to make the plane fly faster. DO NOT GET THE NEXTSTAR!!!![>:]

John