That's a misconception, and a dangerous one to perpetuate. A PCM failsafe just sends the controls to a pre-set position. It does not simply straighten out the plane and make it fly ahead until the interference goes away.

The failsafe position should not be set to neutral controls. The purpose isn't to save the plane. That is not possible without control. The purpose is to crash the plane. I know that sounds counter to your notion, and it should. PCM failsafe is a safety feature for people, not for models. The throttle should cut, and the controls should be set to spin the plane. Anyone who suggests otherwise doesn't understand the purpose of the failsafe, and doesn't have a realistic notion of what it is capable of.

Yes you are, and we all were at one point. Don't be upset just because you're sometimes wrong. There's an amazing depth of knowledge to be learned in this hobby. I don't know it all, and I never will. That'll keep me interested for a long, long time.

However, after you have successfuly learnt to fly, and have aquired some more funds, it's nice to have a spare to fly while repairing the one you crashed... Unfortunately it does happen. The trick is to keep it to a minimum - hence the recommendations you find an instructor.

Hence my favorite saying in my signature file...

Get Dad Flying

PaPa

This doesn't have any direct bearing on the cost of flying, at least to your wallet, and it's not in any way intended to get you to try to pry more money from Dad for moneys sake.

A short story...

For reference, I'm 45 years old.

When I was 10-15 years old, I flew a little bit of control line with my older brother. It didn't cost more than we could make mowing lawns. We saw the rc stuff in the ads, but no way could I even dream of having expensive radios like that.

Fast forward nearly 30 years.

For my sons' 12th birthday, I got him in the rc business with a trainer and the basic stuff everyone on here has been telling you about. 500.00 +/-.

I had flown full scale planes for several years, so it wasn't long before he haad me hooked. Now we have several planes and the list never ends.

However, the money spent on the planes is small compared to the enjoyment we have doing this hobby together. If you both like the hobby, and can find some experienced local help, the rest will fall together, in time.

Again good luck.

LarryC

some mentioned PCM,
exactly how does that work? how easy is it to change the freq.?
is it that much better/nessasary than an FM?

Ive read the lists that some of u gave me and decided to make one of my own. Its not as elaborate as macairs but i think its good starter plane stuff.
NOTE: This is just an estimated price im not going low on every item but im not getting the best either.

Books: $20
0.40 engine (2 stroke): $80
Plane kit (60-70"):$80
Glue/Epoxy:$10.00
Props: $7-2x
Radio kit:$170-$230 (6 channel)
Fuel Pump:$15
Glow-Plug$10
Landing Gear:$8
Fuel line:$2.50
Engine Mount:$4
Washers: $0.30
Covering:$10
Wiring(probably comes with radio kit):$1
Knife:$1.5
Sand Paper:$0.50
Spinner:$10
Rubber foam:$4
Chicken stick:$3
Fuel Tank:$5
CND Dollars
Total of: about $450 not including tax.
Remember this is just a starting kit nothing fancy.
Please tell me if there is anything wrong with the list,
-Missing something
-Something unnessasary
-Something comes in one of the kit ill buy (plane kit,radio,engine)
-Underpriced
-Overpriced
-Just right

Thanks alot,

Papa

PCM: Papa, if your concerned about spending $500USD+ on a total setup, don't worry about PCM at this point. It costs a lot more than standard "PPM" or "FM" radio gear.

I think your list is short. You'll probably need a lot more than two props and one glow plug. You have no glow booster. Doubt you can get all the glue you need for $10 CAD... try $30+. Covering for $10? You'll probably need two rolls of covering for a 40 sized trainer - that is about $25USD or $40CAD. Etc, etc, etc.

There is nothing wrong with being frugal. However, when you start cutting corners at the expense of safety (both yours and others) I draw the line. Additionally, going the cheapest route possible almost guarantees you will have equipment issues... kinda takes the fun out of it.

Like I mentioned in another thread you started, I always tell new club members to expect to spend a minimum of $500... that is USD, remember, most of us here are from the States. $500 USD is about $825 CAD. I firmly believe you really need this to get properly started with a glow powered trainer... $500 USD or $825 CAD. Yes, It can be done for less, but you have to start cutting corners to do it for less. It can be done for more too, but I'd say anything over $1,000 is overdoing it. Sheesh - I've only been doing this for six years and my last plane cost $4K.

There are some items that are safety related that you really shouldn't cut corners on, such as some method to check batteries and a good starter. The whole idea behind a chicken stick is demented... I mean sheesh, look at the name "chicken stick." I think you best bet at this point is to spend $20 of your $500 budget and get a beginners book on RC.

There's nothing unsafe about a chicken stick. The name stems from those using the stick being to "chicken" to use their fingers. The whole point of a chicken stick is safety, so that you don't have to use your fingers in the prop arc.

Papa, MB is pretty much right on the money. If you think you'll only need $10 CDN in glue you're dreaming. That's a couple ounces of CA, and you're going to need more than that. Along with a couple kinds of epoxy. And fuel proof paint. And foam rubber. And... and... and... the list goes on.

Have you gotten your dad involved in this yet? Have you decided to find a local club? If you haven't done either of those, this is the last bit of help you'll be getting from me. If you don't do those two things we're just wasting our time here.

PCM is Pulse code modulation.

Lets say that you are out flying your new plane. For the example lets say you are flying on channel 40.
On that particular day there happens to be one other person at the field using channel 40 as well.

So, lets say you are in the air flying, even though you notified the other individual on channel 40, maybe later in the day he forgets.

He has made some adjustments on his trims or something and decides to test out the radio for a minute or so. Totally forgetting about the frequency he turns it on.

Now if you dont have PCM in the plane (regular FM) then your plane basically will freak out. By the time you yell out "who's on 40!!!!!" your plane is probably headed for a dirt nap.
There really is not much you can do unless the other person turns off thier radio to clear the frequency.

PCM is much different but the outcome is the same in my opinion. PCM in some cases can increase the chances of a plane to crash dramatically.
Let me go ahead and say that I have been running PCM equiped radios for years racing R/C cars. I currently run a Futaba 3PJ for my cars always in PCM failsafe mode. I would never run without it.
For planes, I dont use it.

Anyhow, what PCM allows you to do is to set pre-set settings on your servos in your plane. If a you take a radio hit like described above then the rcvr sets the servos in the settings you specified and quits taking transmission from any input source. So if I set them to go to idle, and turn into a spin then thats exactly what the plane will do. It will more than likely crash depending on what kind of interference it was.

If you get the frequency clear in time (rare) then the PCM rcvr usually takes some time to take transmissions again. IN my experience I have had to actually cut power off and turn it back on before it would recieve again. That only occurred once and I have only had a couple situations where I got glitched. All were other people flipping on radios in the pits. This was car racing of course, as I have not had any problems with my plane radio so far.

In my opinion Failsafe is more valid in areas where flying is contained in smaller areas and safety is a issue. Of course safety is always an issue but in a big open area your less likely to crash into someones home or backyard kind of thing.
Other than that I dont see the real value PCM offers. Its very costly to run and can increase the risk of losing a plane due to latency once the frequency is clear. FM will recieve as soon as the frequency is clear, if its still in the air.

Dbow

About the clubs yes someone, im sorry i forget who, showed me about 30 clubs near by (didnt see that coming) and im planning on going to one of them soon, AND YES ILL GET AN INSTRUCTER lol
about my dad hes gotta see me in the air before he wants in this hobby.
Im going to a local hobby shop tommorrow to get a kit,
im probably going to try to bargain and get it all together for a nice price.
Ive decided on getting one of the following (i want a scale model plane)
Kadet LT-40
Eagle II
Telemaster 40
PT40 MKII
Avistar 40 MKII
if anyone has any suggestions it will be greatly appreciated,
thank you,

Papa

Any of those'd be fine first planes. If they've got a Midwest Aerostar, have a look at it as well.

I think PCM's greatest utility is it's ability to reject electrical noise. That's not such a problem with glow engines, but it can be with gasoline engines. PCM also has a faster frame rate, which is useful with very, very high speed servos used on helicopter tailrotors. Some of them require PCM. For my .40 size sport planes and my .30 helicopter, PCM would be expensive overkill. I'd rather spend it on other overkill items, like digital servos.

ok i got it,
everything exept radio
sig kadet LT-40
os 40 LA engine
nylon prop
glue
Total $321 taxes included CAN dollars
i visited the local flying field so i got a place to fly,
thanks for the tips and suggestions i might be back for questions about my kit, until then see ya and thanks,

Papa

I went to a hardware store asked for T-pins they said they didnt have where do i get these things,
also i have two kinds of CA instant and 10 second CA,
the instructions say to use Medium CA which one is that.

Sewing supply stores will likely have them. I pick mine up at the local Wal-mart in their fabrics section. When I was younger, I build with strait pins. That sure does get hard on the fingers!

Just need a few kit building tips,
This is what i did so far:
1)i have a large corkboard over a hardwood table
2)taped (with masking tape) the plans over it
3)taped wax paper over the plans
im using straight pins instead of t-pins
Few problems i ran into with the creases from the folded paper it doesnt seem so flat any ideas how to get it flat?
any suggestions what i can do?
thank you
Papa

PaPa,

The planes you listed are not "scale" planes, at least the ones that I know of.

"Scale planes" are those with the same looks, and flying characterisics as "real" planes, such as (my new favorite) the "Super Decathlon" a.k.a. "Citabria" (Airbatic spelled backswards). Other "scale" planes might be a P-51, Cessna 182, Piper Warrior, or any replica, scaled down.

The Avistar is what I decided to purchase as my first trainer, though I think the SuperStar is easier and smoother (yes, I've flown both), but the SuperStar with it's flat bottom wing and greater amount of dihedral, will have it's limitations, where as the Avistar has a semi-symmetrical wing design, and is designed as an aerobatic trainer, and should last you longer (as a trainer) before you get bored and move on to your second plane.

The PT-40 also looks nice and has nice hardware to go with it.

SOme of the planes in your list are ARFs, like the Avistar, I don't think it's sold as a "kit" only.

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't mind if I was because I could use some parts from a "kit" to rebuild the Avistar I recently crashed.

In your list of supplies, I see that you forgot the pushrods, control horns, and clevises. But it seems as if you're on your way.

Don't worry about PCM, PPM or whatever, you can get a "co-pilot" and use it in the same way using one of your extra channels on your radio (if you got one that has more than 4).