PaPa,

Okay, I really hate to do this, but here it goes...

09/25/02
• Book: Getting Started In R/C Airplanes... $19.99
• Book: Mostly Mounting... $21.95
• Magazine: Model Airplane News... $4.99

10/10/02
• OS .46 FX Engine w/Muffler... $119.99
• (3) Nylon Props 11x7 @ 2.39 each... $7.17
• Hobbico Avistar II .40 AWARF... $114.99
• HobbyTown Slow-Cure 30 minute epoxy... $6.49
• Great Planes Pro 6 minute epoxy... $6.99
• Great Planes Pro Thick CA Glue... $3.49
• Great Planes Pro Thin CA Glue... $3.49
• Hobbico Foam Rubber... $2.99
• Hobbico #64 Rubber Bands... $1.75

10/11/02
• JR XP662 FM (Air) Radio... $249.99
• (2) Nylon Props 11x7 @ 2.39 each... $4.78
• Epoxy Mixing Sticks... $1.79
• Epoxy Brushe... $1.39
• Epoxy Mixing Cups... $3.49

10/14/02
• Top Flite Precision Balancer... $24.99
• JR Servo Arms (Large) w/Screws... $1.75
• JR Servo Arms (Heavy Duty) w/Screws... $2.50
• GReat Planes "T-Pins"... 2.59
• Medium Grade "Sanding Stick"... $1.95

10/15/02
• Masking Tape... $2.19
• Rubbing Alcohol... $1.19
• 1/16" Drill bit... $0.99
• 5/64" Drill bit... $0.99
• 3/32" Drill bit... $0.99

10/17/02
• Hobbico Hand-Crank Fuel Pump... $15.99
• Hobbico "Field Kit" (Basic Combo.) Includes: Field Box, TorqueMaster LC 12V Battery, 12V Battery Charger, Deluxe Power Panel II, TorqueMaster 90 Electric Starter, Glo-Plug Ignitor... $99.99
• Hangar9 "Z-Bend" Pliers... $15.95
• Du-Bro In-Line Fuel Filter (Blue)...$3.95
• Great Planes "AccuThrow" Deflection Meter... $14.99
• (2) "OS" #A3 Glo-Plugs @ $5.49 each... $10.98

10/19/02
• Great Planes "Dural" Landing Gear... $8.99
• Prather 3' Silicon (Medium) Pink/Fuel Line... 2.49
• Great Planes Adjustable .40-.70 Engine Mount... $4.99

10/19/02
• Lowes: "Channel Lock" 195mm Wire Cutters... $16.95
• "Black Shield" 1/2" Drill bit... $5.78
• #6 Lock Washers... $0.80

10/20/02
• Hobbico "VoltWatch" (GMA/Club Purchase)... $10.00

10/21/02
• Short Hex-Wrench Set... $1.99
• Great Planes Lock-Washer #6... $0.69
• Great Planes Socket-Head Screws 6x3/4... $1.55
• Great Planes "Easy Fueller" Quick Filler Valve... $12.99
• Du-Bro "EZ Connector" Heavy Duty ... $1.55
• Du-Bro "EZ Connector" Heavy Duty 4-40... $1.85

10/24/02
• Hobbico Ball Wrench Drivers (SAE)... $11.99
• "WildCat" Premium Xtra 15% Nitro, 18% Oil... $11.99

10/25/02
• Hobbico Flexable 18" Stainless Ruler (includes inches with 1/8 and 1/16 marks; inches with single milimeter marks to 32)... $8.99
• Midwest Bass Wood 3/16x3x24... $2.23
• Prather 3' Silicon (Medium) Blue/Fuel Line... $2.49
• Bondhus Ball Wrench Drivers (Metric)... $7.20
• Du-Bro Foam (Wing) Tape... $1.70
• Du-Bro "Quick-Fill" Fuel Can Fitting... $8.20
• Hobbico "Exhaust Deflector"... $4.49

10/31/02
• Radio Shack: 30W Soldering Iron... $7.69
• Radio Shack: Soldering Flux... $2.49
• Radio Shack: .050 Solder... $2.99

• Home Depot: 2' Clear Coated 14-Guage Speaker Wire (Power Panel Replacement) @ 0.22 each... $0.44

.................................................. .

This total is not complete, but so far is $921.21 (taxes not included).

• "AMA" Annual Membership (or "CMA")... $58

For a "Grand Total" of $1,034.48

This "Grand Total" does not include varying annual club membership(s), not to mention getting the "I wants" for a second plane (which I've already bought a Carl Goldberg "Super Decathlon" ARF)... $359 and then get to buy another (larger) engine, reciever, servos and battery on top of the "Grand Total".

All in all, PaPa... I'd have to say that your $30 isn't going to cover it!

Maybe you should buy a RTF.

Good luck, but more importantly... have fun!

Not included in this list of items, are things that I've already aquired from art school, such as my Xacto Knives, #11 blades, 45°/90° Angles, pencils for marking, drill bits that the "ex" doesn't have, etc...

MacAir,

you list was impressive and your're right by "todays" normal way of thinking you probably needed all that stuff..

Me I built my first kit with the following items:

Straight edge razor blades (got them from my dad)
1 x-acto knife #11 blade
small square (borrowed from dad
tite bond glue
1 6 oz fuel tank
4 wheels come two to a package and you need 3
3 rolls monokote
Iron (got from mom you know the one she does the clothes with)
fuel tubing
spinner
props
saw blade from hacksaw
straight edge (ruler that I had for school)
Pins (straight pins from moms sewing kit)
Sanding block pieces of sandpaper glued to scrap 2x4 and 2x2

list is probably not complete.

Maybe it was just me but as a kid I had the desire but not always the funds so I and many like me made due with what we had or could scrounge. Anybody else remember those planes and times as the best?

MacAir there seem to be several schools of thought regarding the minimum necessary tools for assembling models.

Believe me while your list of items is extensive and most likely made your Assembly process easier. Most items on your list can be considered luxuries.

With a little creativity and thought models can be assembled much more inexpensively then you seem to think. For example I made z bends with lineman pliers for years before I found that fancy 15.95 tool you're talking about. Model building is as much an expression of creativity and ingenuity as it is about cost and tools

Papa some costs are unavoidable others can be minimized or eliminated with some thought.


BTW Do a search for SPADs

One of the things to keep in mind is that you don't have to buy everything right away. You can start with the kit and some very basic building tools and supplies, and purchase items as they're needed and funds become availible. It is important to have some idea of how much it's going to cost you in total, however. Money doesn't come easily when you're 15.

don't let the above post scare you. that's quite a list, and while you might acquire most of that stuff during your years in the hobby, it's by no means a list of required stuff. the best thing you can do has been said over and over again. go to your local club and meet the folks there. more than likely someone will take you up on a buddy box to let you get a feel for it. you might have to visit a few times to "get friendly" with everyone. a lot of times you'll find a few veterans that are more than happy to help you out. the help can come in various ways, but i'll bet if you're friendly enough (don't forget being humble, nobody likes a know-it-all newbie) you can find someone with a stocked workshop that will let you build at his place, using all those nice tools, not to mention years of building experience.
i've been back into flying for the last year, and i've taken the minimalist approach, so i don't have a majority of the above list. however, if i've ever needed anything, all i've had to do is ask. it will get old to your clubmates if you ALWAYS borrow EVERYTHING every time you come to the field, but for beginners, it's expected that they won't have everything they need to start with.
visit with the clubmembers and you'll get an idea of what you need to start with. it would be a shame for someone on a limited budget to buy some stuff they might need, only to find out they can do without it.

you seem like a smart and eager person, so i doubt you'll have hard time making friends at the field. visit with everyone you can and see what they have, and what they recommend using. you'll find that it can be as expensive or economical as you want to make it. just make sure you have at least the same amount of fun as money you are spending, or you'll quickly tire of the hobby.

Realize that McAir has done you a great service.

If I dug out all of my receipts (I started in March of this year) it would show a VERY similar picture.

I'd take his list and see if there were things you could do to "bundle" some of the needs. Like buying a pack of assorted hardware.

But, you can see there is a big difference between the $2-300 that some say and the $1000 that some say.

Keep your eyes open.

GB

MacAir,

Wait a minute you bought all that stuff to Assemble an ARF???

You're not even talking about a kit ????

I can't believe it. Did somebody tell you needed all that stuff? Or did you decide that for yourself?

I'm not trying to bash you.

The shop I've built over the last 18 years is extensive but since lately I've been forced (due to time) to go the ARF route I probably use $20 worth of tools most of which can be bought at Walmarts for a fraction of the cost at a hobby store (not including the dremel but thats really a luxury)

One thing I learned earliy on only by the speciality tools from the hobby store all other tools can be purchased elsewhere for a fraction of the cost

Ghostbear you too??

What did you guys buy at the same store??

What I found is that it is very difficult to figure out what you really DON'T need until you get a good bit of experience.

How many LHS owner's will tell you NOT to buy a chicken stick (one of a bunch of things I have bought but never used)

I think the point is that if you start with an empty table (oops, I had to buy a table too) that the odds and ends add up rapidly.

Maybe its been a long time since I started with an empty table but when I saw some of the items on Macair's list I was just shocked. Quite honestly I feel bad for you both because while if you stick with it I have no doubt you'll use it all I think somebody steared you wrong..


Just to give you and idea my first field kit as a kid not much older then Papa consisted of the following

1.5 volt dry cell
glow plug wire
Chicken stick
Fuel Blub
1 gal fuel
allen wrenches ("borrowed" from dad)
pliers
props
screwdrivers (agian "borrowed" from dad)
assorted wrenches (ditto)

See the point I'm trying to make is that while you may have thought you needed all that stuff and maybe somebody told you did its not 100% true


One other thing way back then the LHS were different the guy was usually part of the club you belonged to and he would do his best to stear you right. Also since he was once a newbie he'd know what was essential and what was extra. You don't have that today with online stores and chain hobby stores. go into a hobbytown USA and you'll most likely know more then the clerk??

Thats way these forums a so helpfull

While it's easy to go overboard on getting started, it's equally easy to UNDERdo things, too. However, I think you can get in less expensively, if you really want to. I helped my son (22 yrs old) get started this past summer, and here, as best as I can recall, is what we laid out:

Hobbico Avistar Select - $239.00
Dubro foam wing saddle tape - $1.60
Sullivan starter - $49
Dubro Kwik-Klip w/charger - $20
Fuel (Wildcat) - $15 (I think)
Baby wipes - $3 (easy clean up afterward!)
G.P. Master Caddy - $40
5 Minute Expoxy - $4
Fuel pump - $13
Fuel Line - $6

Extra prop and glow plug - $15 (again, I think this is close)

Total - $405.60

Granted, it isn't elegant, and doesn't allow for rebuilding afterward, but it includes engine, electronics, and installed fuel system. It was "cheap", and got him hooked...two prime objectives!

Holy COW thats an expensive Fuel pump. I got a six shooter for 10 bucks.....and an electric cost's about 20 bucks!! That pump do other things besides pump fuel?

Crashem,

The above list wasn't posted to scare off anybody, but rather to inform as to what items may or may not be nessessary.
If mom or dad have the supplies, then money can be put elsewhere within the projected budget.
At 15, money comes hard? At 15, I didn't have any!
But my dad had all the tools and it could've been easily done, I just didn't get into this until now.

No, you do not have to buy a "Z-Bender", but I like my pushrods to be as straight as they can for maximum amounts of equal throws from left-to-right, and a bent pushrod (I would think), may not offer such qualities, however, had I had a vise, I could've done it using that... but I don't.

Furthermore, I do not appreciate the attitude towards my (large effort) post.

No. "Nobody told me I needed all of these items."

I am also going to building a Super Decathlon, which by the way, is also an ARF.

It is in my opinion that the ARFs do not come with the "best of" equipment, such as clevises, pushrods, quick connectors, etc. And after reading the books (prior to starting contruction), I saw that there was a "better way of doing something", rather than simply accepting what comes in the kit. And besides, I tried using those pieces (ARF parts), and quickly found that they were either not as good as what "upgrading" could offer, or they simply were crap.

Example:
• The throttle pushrod. Using the ARF parts, it would never screw down tight enough to prevent slipping from the servo.

I'm spending my hard earned money on a new hobby that I think will last, and I want "my" Avistar to be at it's finest. There's no point in flying around with a $550 plane to loose it because a pushrod comes loose and you loose control, eating up that $550 limited budget.

What would happen if it came loose on a rudder, or aileron, all which recieved parts from the Du-Bro (upgrade) purchase.

I'll agree with on the former part of your statement the latter about under doing eludes me???

If the purpose is to figure out the minimum item Necessary to fly what is under doing.

Even with you basic list there is still $109 of items that may make things easier are not Essential!!!

Sullivan starter - $49
Dubro Kwik-Klip w/charger - $20
G.P. Master Caddy - $40


Is telling a 15 year old to get a glow plug clip,1.5 volt dry cell and chicken stick UNDERDOING IT??

how about instead of a 40 dollar field box you goto walmarts and get a plastic toolbox I got four on sale for 6.00 each. Lets face it when you're just starting out you don't have much to carry.

Also many people mentioned that when he gets to the field lots of help will be waiting.

I just think as adults or buying behavior and rationale is different. We're thinking long term invest here kids think in whats it gonna cost to do this NOW!! Look at the title of his post nobody can tell him with 100% accuracy EXACTLY what its going to cost. Those of us that have been doing it can't even agree

MacAir,
,

That was exactly my point you posted what you spent which as an adult is different then what a kid will spend as you pointed out you don't live with mom and dad but HE DOES and that is exactly my point.

What you posted is a wonderfull guide to the costs of RC. I just disagree with what should be the bare essentials especially when the newcomer is a child.

The only reason I responded was because I was just like this kid at 15 and no matter how tight money is it could be done "cheaply" then and can be now!!!

Maybe some of the guys that got into this hobby as kids could also respond. I really think that if you get into it as an adult what you spend and what you spend it on is going to be radically different. As a kid my one overriding goal was to fly.
That meant if the "good engine" was 10.00 more the the not so good guess which one this kid got. simple math take whats in the piggy bank and start to deduct the cost of all the pieces if you run out of money before you have all the pieces go back and find cheaper pieces untill you had enough money to cover cost of pieces

So let me get this striaght it took you a long time to right that and you're ticked because I disagree with you premise that the entry cost is ALOT higher then people have been Stating.

There really is only one answer to that Tough. My opinion and my right to disagree with you is a justifible as is yours to disagree with me what YOU DID NOT see was me getting upset with you Go back and reread them in on instance I specifially stated in bold that I wasn't bashing you.

Spend your money any way you like!!!!

But remember what the thread was about and who (a 15 year old) was asking I like you was providing an answer to his question..

Maybe you might want to reread my posts after you cool down..

In the cases where I disagreed with you or anyone else I tried to provide not only a less expensive option but a rationale for doing this.

As far as attitude goes you might want to check yours at the keyboard.

My opinion and my opinion only you spent WAY more then needed to get started.. Sounds like you enjoy it and will put it to good use.... But that list would IMO look misleading to a kid..

as far as crashes go pilot error or mechinical failure act of God its part of the hobby. Wouldn't you agree!!!

Crashem,

Okay, point taken. Let's just NOT allow him to loose fingers because he was too cheap to realize that the cost of an electric starter, far out weights the cost of a chicken stick, or pencil, or branch from the ground.

And let's NOT allow him to crash his "budget plane" due to poor quality BARF parts.

And let's NOT allow him to build a "kit" when he thinks that everything is included - because it's only enough to start a fire, if he has the fuel.

Thanks for the layout guys,
however like some of u said my parents will have some of these. which is definentialy true i can name like 20 things on macairs list that my parents could give me.

Basically my dad has given me a $300-$500 budget to buy this thing hope thats enough. The radio macairs suggested said $249 radio i saw 4 channel radio fm for $160(canadian). Macair u didnt say if urs was USD or CND$. also most suggested things like tables or screwdrivers tools. ive got all that stuff(i think) and i can get pencils/rulers from school.

im not undergoing this hobby but im not trying to get total luxury(as crashem stated) in this hobby. Like ur enigine and other tools
as a beginner i dont think ill need al those tools. Im only going for a 50"-60" plane that can fly and do maybe two "tricks" (roll and flip). I really dont need a 6 channel radio( i dont need retractable wheels etc).

How much is fuel for like a 4 galleon bottle (should last me a while right?)

thanks alot for all the lists im going shoppin on soon so ill probably ask the dealer whats needed and whats a luxury.

PS im going with a kit not an arf

Carefull with some dealers nothing is a luxury. You're better off making a list of the items you think you'll need after you decide on a kit.

Some manufactures like great planes publish the instructions on line from there you can get a list of the items the kit maker says you will need.

PaPa,

I am reffering to US dollars.

As long as I've shared my thoughts with you on this, I know that I can rest at night.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy it.

Check out what happens in a low-speed pass over the runway - the full (NTSB Report), it's kinda' funny, but kinda' not!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...172#post419762]

If my points were taken and understood. Then whats up with this

Have you ever used a chicken stick are you that sure its more dangerous then a starter. (I've seen and been more careless with a starter then a chicken stick)

As far as poor quality BARF parts I assume that this judgment comes from you're wealth of experience and knowledge.
Some ARF Hardware is junk but you know what most reviewers years ago said the same things about the hardware included in kits. IT's called cutting corners to make a buck and you'll find it everywhere!!! By the way you did notice that this kid repeatably has stated that he wants to build a kit as opposed to an ARF.
ANY Experience in that AREA???? (you will have some after you're avistar rebuild,tough break)

As far as explaining about what is an isn't included in a kit myself and many others gave him what I think is good advice on how to obtain a list of the items not included this should hopefully prevent any balsa bonfires


MacAir good Luck your future endeavors

Papa,

if you do your homework 300-500 should be enough to get you in the air. You might have to get a .25 sized trainer instead of a .40
just add it all up BEFORE you buy

Macair, how can you talk like your so knowledgeable about the hobby when you JUST started?

I agree, 300 to 500 should be plenty to get started...was for me and I even got an electric starter to boot Just like they said earlier, gotta keep looking for cheaper stuff.

Luis

A little prop humor:

Q: What's the difference between an electric starter and a chicken stick?
A: Loosing fingers by a prop rotating around at 17,000 rpm!
Without fingers, one can not properly grip the "chicken stick".

I have NO experience in building "flying" models, which is why I wanted an ARF - I'll have some idea of what it's suppose to look like - after the crash.

Just have fun PaPa!

like was stated above, most hobby shops nowadays are in it for the money, not the love of the hobby. the 2 major hobby shops in my area, while most of the time mean well, don't know what's NEEDED for a beginner, but they'd never tell you that. you'll walk in, tell them your budget, and you'd be lucky to have anything left when you're done. i've seen people come to my field with one of those "all inclusive" starter kits and a basic field kit (i think thunder tiger makes one) and successfully learn how to fly, never buying additional hardware or field accessories. props, glow plugs, fuel, etc are things you've got to have, and you'll be buying those things forever, as long as you're in this hobby. oh...and a gallon might last you one weekend, or one month, it depends on how often you fly. figure your plane's got a 10oz tank in it, and you're using a .40 sized engine. that's about 20-25 mins of flying before you run out. i've seen folks fly till their out of fuel, land, and fill it right back up and go again, all day long. it really depends on how bad you've got it and if your instructor can keep up with you.
for your budget you should have no problem getting into the hobby. what you might try doing to increase your available funds is get your dad into it. you'd be amazed at how fast your budget will grow when he's grinning like a kid in a candy shop when he makes his first landing!
while i prefer arfs right now, there's nothing wrong with building a kit. there's plenty of good kits for beginners, and they'll teach you not only how to build, but how to repair the inevitable crash.
don't worry...it does sound overwhelming, and it is, at first. give it a few months and you'll be talking the talk; not long after that you'll be walking the walk!

reallyuglystick,
i like the suggestion of getting my dad into the hobby. As soon as he sees me flying my plane he'll want one for himself. Once he gets into it ill have enough stuff to last me a life time. lol

Everybody's experience is different!

So long as you have the basics, you'll be able to use and enjoy your model. Having all the extras is a matter of convenience, and that's all. There are ways to get started in this hobby relatively inexpensively! Used planes, equipment, and fewer luxeries.

MacAir, don't get offended if someone doesn't like your post. Big deal? You started out with a good budget and a lot of equipment. Papa isn't in that postion, but you gave him a nice wishlist.

Let's keep this constructive.

Papa, is there a hobby shop near you? That'd be a great way to see for yourself how much things cost, and find out where the local fields are. You might find a bargain in the shop or at a field. Let us know before you buy something if you'd like our advice.