Thanks for explaining it for me Ken. I didnt think to do so when I made the comment. [8D]

I have seen it happen more with FM receivers than PCM receivers and also I have seen it a lot more when turning OFF than turning on. Some setups I have seen do it several times and some turn on/off the wrong way all the time and it never happens. That I cannot explain, but none the less it is a fact.

If you ever see it happen you will understand why you need to supply the signal before you turn on the receiver and vice versa. The servos can go to maximum throws and lockup and can cause significant damage to the servos.

Congrats on coming back to the game. I read most of the posts, but I have to say one thing. Living that close to the coast and NOT doing a slope glider? You're killin me smalls!

I visited Monterey last year and driving North along the coast looking at all the dunes with the wind coming in. I was seriously jonesin for my glider.

Good luck with the madness, it is FAR FAR too much fun.

Tom

Liberator -

you know - a while ago I was actually wondering about getting an electro glider.
And I think I still will.
It's just ** i don't know who to fly **
And I am sick of trashing my plane because I don't knwo what I am doing (see first post). So, a few years older (note: not wiser. just a little more self-control) I hope to actually learn it, and then when I crash, I hope to be able to at least tell a good story.

I sometimes see folks flying right at the marina, about a 30ft drop to the water, with a nice updraft - and it sure looks fun!

It is hard to describe. But you're right, it is a great thing.
Good luck, you will really have a great time. I can tell you also that my Dad and I started flying 25 years ago. Until I was 16 he and I spent every weekend flying that the weather would allow.
To this day, I have very fond memories of those days. You're son will as well.
Pace yourself, this hobby can eat you alive money wise if your not careful. Make sure that once you decide to explore something its what you really want. There is nothing worse than starting down a path, investing a bunch and then finding out you really wish you had done something else. Been there done that.
I started again a year ago after all this time and got right into glow. That was ok, then went to warbirds, fun, cool, I like them, but they are a lot of tinkering. So I half slid have was carried into gliders and have had the best time yet. If you go to the gliders section and look up my post on the Thermic 2.5m you will see the latest including some pics. Hunting thermals is a great way to spend an afternoon. Teaches patience, is hassle free, and to me is the most relaxing thing I have done in years.

Killer head therapy.

Again, good luck and have fun.

Tom

Man -- watching that glider soar has got to be good for the mind... No joke.

Love your sig Might be me soon with them carefully planned maneuvers!

Guys --

while I am waiting the mind is busy thinking about hopups

question: is it worth trying different propellers? Stock motor is an Electrifly T-601, with a 9.5x5. What kind of ground clearance do i want (tail dragger)? how about an 11x3? 8x8? Kidding no idea except that I know one number is diam, the other pitch.

I'll defer the motor/lipo upgrade for now

You could try a different prop, but I really dont see the need. Just keep it simple and use what comes with the kit to start out.
I have flown the Super Star EP that one of my trainees had bought just to goof around with and it flew pretty well. One thing I remember about it is that the motor wont last you very long, its a simple brushed motor. They are cheap, cheap so pick you up a couple of extra motors, you wont regret it. For the cost of 3-4 brushed motors that will probably only last you 15-20 flights each,,, you can get a brushless that will virtually last forever.

This Super Star EP setup isnt really worth upgrading to Lithium Batteries since there is no need to save weight (unless you want to double or triple your flight times), but again I will tell you that if you are going to keep it and fly it often, it will be well worth your money to pickup a brushless equivalent.

On the subject. I use lithium batteries in all of my airplanes now. Every single one of them,, Lithium Ion AND Lithium Polymer. They are very reliable and very stable when handled correctly, just like any other battery,,, if you mishandle it it can be dangerouse. No reason to be afraid of them. I have HUNDREDS of flights on my foamy Lithium Polys and at least 100 flights on the lithium ions in my 37% Ultimate and I have recently installed them in my newest pattern plane. Respect them yes, fear them no... no.... NO. They are superior to NiCad and NiMH in every way when it comes to performance. They weigh 1/2 as much as NiCad and NiMH and you get MUCH longer run times and much more efficient output from Lithiums than you do from Non Lithium batteries of "equivalent" size and voltage. Case in point, I can get 4 flights on a 2200mah NiCad battery,,, I can get 12-20 flights on a 2200mah Lithium Ion battery.
They are EASY to charge and very safe but LIKE ALL BATTERIES you have to use the correct charging method.

If or when in the future you want/need to go Lithium when you upgrade to a plane where weight and performance is really important,,,,just do your homework, get the right charger for the job (I use an Apache 2500 ($50) and a Triton Charger ($125) ). I have never had a Lithium pack get warm during a charge,,, much less explode or spontaneously combust.

Thanks Mike -
tell me more about the brushed lasting for only 20 flights -- flights at full throttle? Seems kinda low, no? And what happens then? Does it lose power? Stop turning?

I'll not worry about props then. Saw a thread here about a lipo/brushless upgrade to the SSEP, and it looks like the stock ESC (30A) should be able to handle the higher amps.

Hey - what's UP with Tower?! I ordered nay 2 days ago and the SHIPPED!!! What service. Glad I went with them

Brushed motors just dont last as long. Im not an expert on electric motors so I cant explain in technical terms but Im speaking fact from personal experience and observation when I tell you they just dont. That is part of why they are so cheap. My friend with the super star went through several motors in a few months. They just quit working, its not usually a gradual death, they just die.


And my fellow club members that flew brushed electrics in their foamies suffered the exact same issue, every one of them. They have all gone brushless now, and although they (we) have trashed dozens of foam airframes, we are all still flying the 1st outrunner brushless motors we bought which has been over a year now and hundreds of flights. I run AXI motors and my buddies all run Himaxx outrunners, both are excellent choices but there are a LOT of good brushless motors out there to choose from.

Sorry I cant tell you why brushed motors dont last long, I just dont know why..

good enough - thanks Mike.

How do I go about evaluating brushless choices - sure I can start in the forums, but I'd like to hear how, based on specs, I should look at the options.

Once again not my forte. I just buy motors that are recommended for a given size/weight plane.

One thing you have to know is what sort of amp load your electronic speed can handle. I use a Phoenix 45 ESC and the 45 gives you an idea of hw many amps the controller can manage. The bigger the motor the more amps it will pull AND the more current it will draw, requiring a higher capacity battery.

Something like this would work [link=http://www.newcreations-rc.com/ProductDetails.aspx?itemnumber=JEP153]New Creations RC[/link] with a Phoenix 45 speed controller and I 3 cell 2000mah lipoly.

About the turning the TX on first, off last.

On a glow plane, if a stray signal comes in that sends the throttle servo to full open right after you start the engine, you are going to be in a world of hurt. Since the plane does not need to be turned on, you can sometimes forget (don't ask how I know).

I am not that familiar with electrics, but I would imagine that a signal could throttle it up also.

The TX signal should be stronger than a stray signal. So if your TX is on, it would overpower any strays. The only exception is if someone else turns a TX on that is on the same channel.

There is some sort of a lockout on the ESCs I have used that will not allow it to initialize until it receives a signal and this initialization takes about 3 seconds, it typically corresponds with an audible tone. Im not saying it could not happen with an electric plane but the stray signal would have to hang around for several seconds to get the ESC to initialize and begin responding to a signal.

I agree with derek, parkzone is one of the main brands that i have right now. I have the J-3 cub, the decathalon, and the stryker. however all the planes i own are only 3 channels, but, they are extremely good fliers. If you are lookin for somthing that you might want to hand down to your son in a few years or after he gets good with this stuff is a cub or decathalon. Or if you want to get a little bit more umph you might want to get the stryker. I would also recomend another brand by the name of hobbyzone, which is afflitated with parkzone. If you decide to go with hobby zone get one of these 3 channel planes:FIREBIRD FREEDOM(ZONE 1),AEROBIRD CHALLENGER(ZONE 2), or the AEROBIRD EXTREME(ZONE 3). But all of the planes in this post are extremely good planes and the most expensive one tops out with a spare battery at just over $200. Hope that you take a look at these.

MikeEast, I think I need to clarify something. In the second paragraph you referred to amps and current both getting larger when using a bigger motor. For the record, amperage is a measurement of current. This means pulling more amps and drawing more current is the same thing, not something you add together, which is the way I interpreted your post

OK, you are the man and I bow before your wisdom and electrical knowledge.....

Like I said, although I can wire a complete house and make basic electrical repairs, Im not an electrical expert down to the ohms and amps and I was clearly not trying to be such in my comment. It was a general statement that made the general point for a general purpose.

Im expecting you will dissect this too, but what I was getting at and apparently poorly explained was that if you use a larger motor it will draw more amps (current, blah blah blah) so you may need a larger speed controller and it will also eat up battery capacity a lot faster so you need a battery with a larger capacity (same output voltage but holds more milliamps).

Is that clear enough for your liking?

wahooo!
got plane and radio. My poor son: he'd best like to stick everthing together NOW, with ducttape, if we must and go fly.

Sigh.
I am still noodeling around with the FMS sim, on a keyboard. if anyone can tell me about their experience with a Tx cable to sim that they bought, let me know. Before I plunk down 50$ I want to know it works.
I did find some cool links to make one myself but I am little leery of firing up that ol' soldering iron just yet.
Still waiting for the AMA card...
Man it's freezing out here. I hail from Germany, where it's not warm in the winter. In a short 15 years I am a total weenie. How do you guys fly in the cold months?! from inside the car?

saw drbonk got a cable from this guy http://www.rc-circuits.com;
price is similar to others (48$ with the Futaba 6pin square plug). Sign me up!!

Question for you:
my tool set is all but, um, not there. The random piece acquired over the years, but certainly not in shape for patching up trainers...

what is your shortlist for outfitting myself? Glues, tools, etc?

-s

Glow plug wrench of some sort.
Whatever you need to install/remove the wing(s).
Chicken Stick and/or Electric Starter
Glow Plug Heater
Fuel and a pump of some sort.
Battery to run starter and if you have one your electric fuel pump.
Voltage Meter for testing your batteries under a load.
Small pair of needle nose pliers
Small screwdriver phillips and standard
Some sort of cleaner and paper towels (I use 409, works fine)


For repairs
15 or 20 minute epoxy
Thin and Medium CA and perhaps some accelerator (I use it all the time with great results)
Monokote Iron
Exacto Knife and plenty of sharp blades.
Straight edge for cutting covering

Sounds like a pretty good list to me Mike, though I would add a first aid kit of some sort "just in case". BTW, I wasn't trying to disect what you were saying about ESCs, as I am in total agreement that a bigger motor will require more juice and a heavier ESC. Many beginners have little to no concept of how an electric drive works, or what the polarity of battery posts means. I was just trying to avoid confussion, as electrical terminology can get very confusing.

Cool -

sensible list (after removing the glo-specific items - mine is an electric )

thanks.

CA I take to mean "superglue" (cyan...acetate?) right?

Yes, cyanoacrylate,,, super glue..... And if it is for a foam repair it MUST be ODORLESS CA.

Dang for an electric you dont need much any of that stuff... Just the tools and the voltage meter. You dont even need paper towels!!

Yeah, that's what pant legs are made for!!!!!

Somehow my wife doesn't appreciate that joke whenever I tell it!!! [X(]

Ken

Howdy again. Thought I'd maybe forgotten about the hobby, huh?

Well, I got the radio and the plane. Plane still in box. Ordered the cable from Dennis (see link above), plugged, in calibrated the "windows USB joystuck" - and wow. It works (using FMS).

I have to say I am *really* glad I waited for the cable instead of trying the radio on the plane first. THese sticks move a lot with my fat fingers... I am good at the fat joysticks, but this is a whole new ball game.

Now I know where those endless holiday hours will be spent