First, master the high wing trainer, be able to fly it to it's limit. Be able to land it with perfection regardless of wind conditions. Then, move onto a should wing model of the Ugly Stick variety. This will teach aerobatics and more landing skills. At this point, the flyer will be proficient to go for that pattern plane, big bird, jet, etc... Sucess in this hobby is a staircase that progresses upward.

I still take my trainer to the club every time, i love flying my DPS40 and my SPADstick46 but if it's too windy or i need a shake down or i'm trying a new move i break out the Debonair and use it.

we have a competition twice per year where only trainers are eligable and i think every one in the club must still own a trainer of some sort, its a blast, we do climb and glide, slowest pylon races, bomb drop, longest hands off transmitter, most loops in 60 seconds, closest to bulls eye on dead stick landing etc etc, it lets the newbs compete against the old hands and it's a blast i'd highly recomend other clubs give it a go.

When most seasoned fliers think of trainers, the little 40 size planes immediately come to mind and is what they often recommend for beginners. These little toys are fine if the beginner is twelve years old or younger. Most grown men entering the hobby however, would benefit more from starting with a larger and better flying flat bottom winged airplane. The absolute best of which is the Kadet Senior ARF. This is a big, well built, sharp looking plane that flies extremely well. It's also a very versatile plane that a person isn't likely to bore with quickly.

I think one reason beginners get itchy to move on to a symmetrical winged airplane is due to having made a poor choice with their first plane. Another reason may have to do with their age. The younger the beginner the more he is going to associate a faster and badder plane with a bigger... well, you get the idea.

"Little toys" sounds like a reference a seasoned flier of larger aircraft may use, long after they have forgotten what its like to fly a trainer.

As far back as I can recall (about 20 years I think) before ARF's were popular and trainers were packaged ready to fly, trainers were about the same size as they are today.
My 1st trainer back then used a Thunder Tiger .35, other trainer type planes I remember having had a Webra T-40 4 stroke, and one had a Merco .61.

.40 sized trainers have become popular due to due convenient size and economy. However, the main problem is that they are heavily built plywood boxes making them heavy for their size and fast to fly. IMO these are not really primary trainers at all.

I agree that the SIG Kadet Senior is a nice looking plane and would probably make an excellent trainer, but many people might not have the space nor the budget for such an aircraft to start.

When I returned to RC about 18 months ago I avoided the plethora of .40 sized 'trainers' available and went for the larger, better flying .60 size.

Many beginners will probably find a large aircraft daunting and would feel more comfortable on a smaller aircraft to start. A small plane can fly well if designed and built correctly.

The giant hobby distributors have destroyed a once popular size class of airframes. In the 80's there were numerous .60 size models, and now, only a handful. Nowadays, everything is designed to fly on a .46.

I started a few weeks ago on a Midwest Aerostar, and I'm only now coming to the end of the first gallon of fuel. I've solo'd, can fly the plane at a constant altitude most of the time, I constantly coordinate the rudder to turn, and can land it without bouncing (well, once out of three landings, but getting better at that).

The thing is that I've had people volunteering so much information about my next immediate steps before the season is even finished: cutting the dihedral out of my wing, buying a new ARF for a sport plane, shoulder wing, another trainer, a low-wing, a bigger plane, etc etc. I'm not in any hurry, as I expect to be in this hobby for a long time.

I built a kit for my first plane, and now for my next plane I'm building from plans, a constant chord low wing plane. I've shown the plans to an instructor and he thinks it will be an easy flier, and that's fine with me. Why? simply because I'm not in a hurry, I know I won't finish building until next season and I'll learn at my own pace. If it takes me a two dozen flights to learn to fly that low-wing in a perfect circuit and land it smoothly before even trying a roll, I'll be happy for the challenge.

I think too many people try to pressure new fliers into progressing the way they did. Just because someone buys an highly aerobatic plane as a second plane, doesn't mean that person MUST do aerobatics on their first flight (or dozen flights) with it or fly it full throttle around the field (I personally like flying at quarter throttle with my Aerostar)!

What's the worse that could happen?

I realize that flat bottom winged planes have pretty much always been called trainers and seen as a plane for beginners only. Most grown men do not like being categorized as a "beginner" or a "newbie", so they might precipitate their move to a more difficult plane to avoid this stigma. Which is ashame because many do so without fully appreciating the great flying attributes of a flat bottom winged plane. This desire however, to quickly join the big boys on the line have resulted in more than one plane being lost to over enthusiasm.

I would bet before the invention of and proliferation of ARf's, a beginner would spend alot of time constructing his first trainer. As a result he would want to spend his time getting the most out of it. Also, with the purchase of his second plane the time spent in construction would allow for him to acquire a skill level equal to his second plane. With ARF's you could crank out a new one each week.

I also was inspired by my local hobby shop owner. According to him there is an amazing number of planes that used to be used as trainers in the old days or are just as easy to fly as a trainer.

Just my thought and personal experience.

I started with a Graupner Taxi when I was 14 or 15.

I built it and flew it myself from the beginning. I also had it started for me a couple of times by others.

It not only survived my abusement. I gave it to my Uncle when I had a drop in RC interest. He flew it for a couple of years after that.

This model was comparable poorely built because of my youth and little experience, and repairs were never perfectly done.

Then I moved on to a Maxi with ailerons and learned that

This aircraft had a pesky foam wing with abbachi veneer on it, uckk! (at that time I thought it was great!), However, it flew quite well and it had a very flat glide path on dead stick in fact.

Today, people start with fast flying trainers with fairly high wing loading and with ailerons.

Those models are rarely (if ever ?),dynamically stable, Unlike the Taxi wich can free-fly in fact.

I would charachterize flying properties of those trainers as "gunshot wounded crows", or "a dart arrow, thrown backwards"

With help from a club member and perhaps a training cord, people can learn flying anyway.

Now, after many different models, I am back to the good ol' Taxi, originally designed 1966.

I built a new one and it is a delight.

I use it as a sea-plane and arial photo plane as well as a traniner for my two very own little pilots in training I got.

I also got my hands on a set of Falcon 56 drawings, I will build one after those drawings because I know that is also a good well flying airplane with some appeal.

Had a Falcon SR before wich I modded heavily and had much fun with.

Cheers,
Ikaros

PS

Before I started R/C, I flew U/C wich was quite popular at the time ant I think it helped me a bit.

DS

It is amusing to read about how some people charachterize the level of complexity, flying model airplanes upon engine displacement.

I have a friend who is quite comfortable flying an airplane with a 4000 cc engine but he can only with some difficulties land his 6,5 cc model airplane without damage.

".40 size trainer" is not a good meashure.

"we are moving towards metric, Inch by Inch"

Cheers,
Ikaros

This is a great thread and I have read every post. Here is my experience. I started this exact time last year. My first plane was the Avistar Trainer with a OS46FX, I still have it and still fly it. It just happens to be in the shop right now. We had a real tough cross-wind at the field a couple of weeks ago. I landed on our grass runway (right next to the paved one) and the plane did a partial ground circle, hit the front gear that then collapsed. This will be my third time fixing the plane, but I am going to keep it till it won't fly or repair anymore. I consider it a trainer for flying, and repairing.

Now my second plane was a 4*60 with an OS 91 Surpass. I love this plane, it is stable in winds, goes where you point it, and is just the right low wing plane for me to step up to. It flies like the trainer (easy to control) but does allow me to step up to doing a little more aerobatics as I learn. And it is programmed for flaperons.

I now have a Ultra Stick 60 with an OS 61FX (hmmm a pattern here). It is set up for flaps and crow, and it is quicker and snappier that the 4*. This is also a fun plane to fly and helps to learn keeping the plane at the same altitude when doing barrel rolls, and is great for learning inverted flight.

So here is how I do it. First, I have not activated flaperons on the 4* yet, nor have I tried the Crow on the US60, but it is there when I am ready. Yes I have done some high flying with the flaps down on the US60, but am not ready to land. So yes I have 3 planes in the air in one year, but I use each of them differently. I will usualy try someting new starting on the Trainer, then move to the 4* and finally to the US60. Then, if I just want to go to the field and do some easy fun flying, the trainer fits the bill just nicely.

Now, I have a Something Extra on the bench that should be done in about 1 month. I am taking my time since it is my first kit, and I hope to learn covering on this plane. When ready, it will be used as an advanced flyer for me. Faster, quicker aerobatics and extremely manuverable. Every plane I use if for different purposes, learning something new, or trying to move up in my flying skills. I can either use all of their features, learn them, or do nothing but fly simple square patterns around the field.

I love this sport!

Model airplanes is not a sport.

It is a religion, way of living, way of being, it is a way to compensate we are not like the birds !

Besides, I got two birds and I never fail to admire their skills when they fly toghether in my home.

Cheers,
Ikaros

It is so great to read about Tiggerinva's understanding.

Must be he is a Limey hehe, hmm sorry I mean Brit.

Afterall, we all know Brits are traditionally good at airplanes :P

He is totally right in everything he is saying so far !

Cheers,
Ikaros

I started RC back in 1979 with a Goldberg Cessna 172 kit. I flew control line prior to that and have always loved planes. I left the flying part of the hobby after a couple years of flight time. I have built for 30 years and got back into flying RC in 1996. I had to be re-taught by a club insrtuctor using a Avistar 40. By the end of that summer I was flying a Sig Citabria with a OS 40. The following year I started flying a 1/4 scale FW190. Warbirds and large scale have always been my passion. I remember seeing the Bud Nosen kits in the mags when I was much younger and hoped someday that this would be more than a dream. Today at 41, I can say I've been fortunate enough to fly large P38's and many other big warbirds including ME109's, Spits and other large scale aerobatic planes. I would like to say to all the beginners out there, don't stop. It gets to be more fun as time goe's by.

i learned to fly starting in jan of 1971 soloed easter the same year and am still learning.my trainer was a 4 channel falcon 56 with os 35 r/c kraft series 70 radio and plane weighed 5.25 pounds covered with silk and dope.plane is still flyable.took me longer to master the four channel setup than others that were learning on 3 channel h-rays or kadets but guess who got into low wing aerobatics first with a vk cherokee and a hp 61 bluehead in fall of 71.i was out every weekend for four 15 minute flights each day as long as no rain was around.that trainer was flable in all wind conditions and could do all the aerobatics you could want.yes it was overweight and a bit overpowered as a trainer but i became a flight instructer,test pilot before others.in fact back in 1980 i actually taught my previous instructer about ducted fans.what i see today and have seen over the years is people that should know better not paying attention to basics.ie downwind landing and takeoffs.just because you have plenty off power and can fly the thing down to the runway does not make it right.seems the accepted practice for landing is land hot land fast as long as it is on the runway its a 10.landings done correctly are the hardest manuver to master.but once mastered are the easiest manuver to do.my instructer used to chop the throttle on a whim and make me land on the runway the first pass with out using the throttle.i do not see this being done today.i see people landing to fast and blaming the plane etc but can they fly at stall speed without stalling?things are less expensive these days and everyone wants the biggest engine on the smallest plane.how many people come to the field with a new plane every other week because the other one crashed for one reason or another.arf is cheap quick and easy,disposable plane.i have gone on long enough but my 2 cents worth.

Thanks, its nice to be appreciated once in a while

Not sure about being good at airplanes, didn't solo first time around (20 years ago) and not soloed yet this time around. Must admit though, I'm getting pretty good at assembling ARF's

Although having said that, I've been mostly self taught despite being a member of a club. I haven't found the few sessions I've had on the buddy box particularly useful aside from extending the life of my 1st trainer..........

well i been flyin control line for years even built a 72" c/l cub decided to try r/c so i went an got a 82" cub put a os 60 on it my instructor recommened a trainer so i got a thunder tiger 60 size traner finally soloed got bored with the 60 put on a 80 webra finally an i do mean finally learned to take off straight with the cub an land it that was very hard to learn that plane to me! then got a pizzaza took my stuff outa the trainer put it in the cub an transfered the cub stuff to the pizzaza had a blast with that plane before i lost it got another one not much luck with the second pizzaz lost it past week so now i got a edge 540t 60/90 arf ordered i like the way these planes look so stable doin harriers an slow flite with high pitch attuide also i think the edge will hover a little easyer than the pizzaza because there longer goina see what the 80 will do on the edge been flyin r/c about a year now this stuff is very addicting !

oh, I remember those Training days.................. AND I SHOULD, IT WAS BARELY A YEAR AGO.

I had a Ripmax Trainer 40, to see me through my solo, and then, I bought myself, and Blackhorse (graupner) Super air. To learn some more "chuck about" flying.
Then I got the HB A7 Corsair DF. Ummmm. well, not much to say about that, as It flew poorly, and is now being modified with Kress fan.
At Christmas, got GP Patriot, very niiiiiiicccccceeeee.
Then money saved from selling Trainer went towards Trim F-86! (ducted fan)

An eventful year. I am very lucky to have picked the skills up quickly, and can now enjoy the world of (DF) Jets! and faster flying.
(Oh and I think if you can, get a simulator. Take the sim speed up to the max, and fly like that. Get's your reactions up!

I was on my trainer for 2 years and then went strait to a Somethin' Extra..........LOVE this plane......flies like its on rails with just a .46AX.........

I have the ARF version, only flown it once, but can't wait to go out again.....

I never made it past my 1st trainer, I started about 10 years ago , the "trainer" and I spent about 20 minutes total at the field over a couple of months time...so I lasted about a season, now, I got back into parkflyers for a couple of summers and bought a small glow trainer (jkaerotech T-52) for an .049 Norvel, but I have lots of projects, and engines to move on to and through once it warms up a bit..Rog

As a beginner myself, let me add a couple things to the list of skills that a trainer should teach you:

1. How to safely fuel, start, tune and work around a glow engine.

2. How to safely work a pattern at a busy airfield, and airfield ettiquite.

3. how to perform basic maintenance on your airplane (hopefully not how to do major rebuilds!)

4. How to relax and have fun.

It depends a lot on the $. some people do it as a hobby. some people do it as a lifestyle. the people who do it fora hobby will probably not advance past the trainer becasue they are not involved enough to be dissatisfied. People like me who's life revolves around rc aviation will go past the trainer in search of fresh challanges.

My observations over 30years...

About 40% even try long enough to solo. (THAT's depressing...)

About 60% of those who solo get a second plane.

About 50% of those who progressed toa second plane stick with the hobby more than 2 years.

About 80% of those who stay with it more than 2 years stay with it more than 5 years. (or if they were teenagers who left the hobby after 2 + years to go to college they will come back when they are over 40)

OK so I have an addictive personality! Baught the G2 Sim last fall... Played everyday all winter. Upstate NY Winter SUCKS. Middle of winter baught a used Trainer RTF with radio... Spring came ... I went... Third day solo flight... Now my hanger... My Fav. WACO BIP 60 / Eindecker 61 fs / GP Shoestring 61 2 stroke / Not included in the Pics GP Fokker Dr - 1 / GP Stuka / Zero 36" wing / CUB gift from one of the guys at the club ( THANK YOU )/ GEE BEE 71" KMP. Trainer 40 sz. I have a great club that I joined... A bunch of guys saw my Love and enthusiasm and helped me with every question I had and I am always open to tips and suggestions... I fly under control... I try to make everything I fly look scale in the air. YES I USE RUDDER!!! Throttle control... Learned to fly with both right away! I have gone to a couple other fields with friends and people at the fields who see me fly ( and my pit area routine and safty ) figure I have been flying for yrs. If you notice I have planes that fly Slow / Fast / Acrobatic / scale... My faverite thing to do is try and make each plane I have fly scale like the real ones. The only regret I have is not getting into this Hobby yrs ago... Everyday I jump on the SIM and play even if it is only for 10 min. This is my chance to say thank you to all at my club that share there experience and time with me. Just Loving it!!! Thank You "Rochester Aeromodeling Society" <RAMS>

im a newbie, and by my second flight with my trainer i ran out and bought a H9 J3 CUB 80 to get ready and fly by my next flight sesion,i felt i was doing good enough,to handle the big bird.witch i had no problems at all in fact i feal the big bird flys better than my trainer i fly at 1/3 throttle and have to add rudder when im turning witch helps me get a better feel for flying. It sound like the real thing with the saito 56 4 STROKE IN IT. ,besides now when i take my trainer up i push it to mine and its limits making me feel more confident. I think its because if i crash................o well i have another ...........fly on!