Hey guys,

Lately ive been seeing gas engines that are able to replace .60 sized glow engines that cost very little in the long run. I just want to know the benefits on each because im thinking about getting a .60 sized gasser. All i know is that fuel is less expensive for gas and that you dont have to wipe your plane of oil after every flight. Is this true?

Thanks again!

Samolot

Samolot - a few of my friends have moved to small gassers like the G20, from what I see its great for scale planes. The fuel savings is amazing for sure but then it lacks in the power that you can get from a glow equivalent. E.g. the G20 will turn a 15x6 @ 9,500 and if its a 16x6 I am guessing about 9,000 RPM. If you have a nice scale warbird etc then its a great option as you want that extra weight up front.

A glow like the 91FX will turn a 15x6 @ about 9,750RPM, a SA100 will turn a 15x6 @ 10,000 RPM and the YS110 a 16x6 @ 10,000 RPM. The glow engines are like only 91 FX and SA100 about 21 oz and the YS110 27 oz. The G20 is like no less than 35-37 oz with the battery and ignition unit.

My friend worked out a table on the running cost and despite gassers being relatively more expensive on a 160 sized gasser you make the difference back in about 9 months if you do about 6 flights a week. Well, that is the cost for us here in Malaysia.

Guess each engine serves its own purpose ... depends on what you want it for.

Samolot,
I had a chance to look at the Zenoah G20 gasser at the Toledo show this year. It is advertised as being for scale planes, and after seeing it I do understand. It's a little bit bigger than a normal 60 sized glow engine, so it's not going fit in a lot of 60 sized planes. After seeing it I understand why they are saying scale planes, because it's going to need a big round cowl to fit under.

With that in mind, if you have a plane that it can fit on going to a gasser is a good alternative to the cost of glow fuel. Myself I'm in the process of moving to some gasser planes to save on the cost of glow fuel. I know that I don't spend as much as some do, but I still managed to spend $750 last year in glow fuel. Even with gasoline close to $3/gallon it's still cheaper than $16/gallon for glow fuel!!

Ken

Gas:
Cheaper fuel.
Almost NO exhaust residue.
User friendly.
Set the needles once and leave them for a year or two.
Reliable - no flamouts on long finals or after idling for a couple of hours.

I rest my case.

Dr.1

I'll be the first to give you first hand experience with this new g20. It is a bit heavier that a comparable sized glow engine. Total weight is something like 41 ounces with everything. That's 3 pounds 3 ounces. and it's making 1.7hp at 8500. A good saito will do that and be almost 1/2 half that weight.

That being said, If you are going to put this into a 3d plane with loads of wing area you would be just fine. Now I just witnessed last evening someone that has this engine in the Aeroworks Edge540. My first thought was way too heavy. I'm not sure what the plane weighed. Anyway, we started out on a APC 15X6 and saw 9400 ready to fly. We switched to a APC 16x6 and got 8800. Now this is on an engine that was just started for the first time and did not even have a 10 ounce tank of fuel through it yet.

We flew it with the 16X6 and power was pretty darn good. It went vertical in a hurry but lost pull up around 1000 feet, so it's not unlimited but plenty. No extreme stuff was tried but this little engine pulled through very large loops, which did not even faze it, hammerheads were a breeze.

Now as far as RPM's go, remember that this thing tops out in HP at 8500, Redline is 10000. So turning a prop much over 9000 is just mainly a waste. Torque is what turns the prop and helps to overcome the load from going vertical. I'm thinking that a 15X6 for the first 3 or 4 gallons so as to not overload/overheat the engine then switching to the 16x6.

It's pretty common to think in terms of a glow engine when you first switch to gas. Most things carry over between the two, but props and needles and especially breakin procedures do not. For gas you prop to have the engine at the top of it's powerband, not max rpm, in setting the needles, you do not richen them for breakin, you richen only the high speed needle by only 100 or so rpm and that is only just to not have it go lean in the air. The low speed needle is set for the best transition you can get. Breakin is handled by the oil ratio not the rich settings of the needles.

Once you remember those three items, learning how to deal with gas becomes a lot eaiser

I have both gas and glow and like them both. In my opinion gas engines are not for 60 size airframes. Weight, prop clearance, landing gear height and strength, and firewall structure will be problems. Most small gas engines go in 120 size airframes.

Go for it but not in a 60.

Bill

bubbagates,

What do you think about this engine in the Top Flite .60-.90 F4U Corsair?

Dr.1

Strange... I was just checking these engines out at Chief Aircraft, the G20 is $40 more than the G26.

Still, its tempting.

Graham

Probably because the G26 is a magneto engine...

Depends on the weight. I'm guessing we were close to 9 to 9.5 pounds on the Edge. Something like 10 pounds would be very scale like

I was actually impressed by this little engine. They say to use a starter to start it, forget that, first ever start went like this

ignition off
choke on
throttle to full
rotate (not flip) prop until we felt it get wet (no kidding it took about 10 turns and you could "feel" the engine lossen up a bit
throttle to idle
6 flips and it ran about 2 seconds
choke off, 4 flips and it ran.

After it was warm and up to 20 minutes of cooling off, 3 flips no choke and it started (first flip you heard nothing, second flip it barked, 3rd flip it ran which made me think a harder second flip would have started it but not true, we tried 3 times and it was always the 3rd flip no matter how fast we flipped it).

We never ;eft it sit longer than 20 minutes so I really cannot go past that. You can cut down the amount of flips with the choke on by rotating the prop one or two more turns after you feel it get fuel but then I would think you risk flooding it.

I have 2 G26's converted by RCIGNI and they both start exactly the same way, everytime

Wow, thanks for all the replies so soon! I guess its not a win win situation for gas. THere is weight to deal with, and pure power. The exhaust residue is what gets me agrivated, but since im still flying my basic trainer for fun these days, its not a bad situation. Im sure in the future i might try gas because i know the companies will make it their top priority to keep making the gas engines smaller and smaller, and more powerfull. We'll see what happens.
THanks!

Samolot

PS: Also, what extra equipment is needed to maintain a gas engine?

Not much extra. Carry a spare spark plug. Filter the fuel at least twice coming out of the filling jug. You must use a pump rated for gas. MPI makes a good one. Gas engines actually need very little support gear.

Dr.1

Don't forget the fire extinguisher...

I did forget, but I DO carry one. Good suggestion, Chuck!

Dr.1

Absolutely. This is a must to have if you are going to fly gas.

Ken

This is the problem with going to gas. There are engines out there like the G-20, RCS 140 and 180 and others designed to go into medium to large glow planes but it's a very fine line. I once did a Carl Goldberg Sukhoi that had the lightened G-26 in it. Loads of people told me the wing loading would be too high and I would crash it.

Well in one respect they were correct, the plane went to 12.5 pounds with 946 sq in. of wing area and had to be landed pretty fast and the stall break was pretty violent. So me being the type to try things out, I went to putting the plane on a diet. I replaced the wing tube, main gear, prop, spinner, battery setup and a few other minor changes. All in all I spent another 200 bucks to lose 1.5 pounds. The plane flew tons better but instead of costing me about 600 bucks it now was over 1000 bucks including the engine and this was all because I wanted to go to gas.

I have since removed the engine and stuffed it into a Stearman. The cool thing is I now have the new OS120AX in it with all of the lightened work I did, it now weighs less than what the manual says it should and is a beauty to fly.

So with all that being said, I know of only two companies right now that are actually making planes to handle big glow or small gas engines and those are Wildhare and Great Planes.

Great Planes has the Performance Series which includes a great flying Ultimate, a Cap232 and a Yak. All three are built around either the OS160FX or the Fuji 43cc gas. In my Ultimate I use a Brison 3.2 (52cc) because while the Fuji flew it well, the Ultimate ended up at 16.5 pounds so the Fuji did not have what I wanted. I then bought the Cap232 and stuffed the Fuji in it and it's at 14lbs since I removed the wheel pants and with the PT models CF prop it will pull this plane into the vertical and it is truly unlimited and it just keeps going and going and going. I do not own the Yak but a few people have done it with both the OS and Fuji and they also loved it.

http://www.greatplanes.com/performan...rformance.html

Now, I just recieved my new Wildhare "Baby Edge" and this thing is a work of art. I'm going to stuff a Brison 2.4 in it. I told myself I wanted a smaller plane to toss around and was going to keep it glow, but this thing just screams for a small gasser.

http://www.wildharerc.com/Products/Edge120/edge.html

My 4 stroke glow engines are very clean compared to 2 stroke engines. There is almost no cleanup if the exhaust is properly routed.

Bill

If you decide on gas to begin with, and redesign and build the plane accordingly, there should not me too much weight gain. Our planes are DRASTICALLY over-engineered anyway. I can cut 1.2 - 1 pound from most 45-60 sport planes and still retain structural integrity and flight safety.

Dr.1

thanks for the tips guys! guess 4 strokes are the better value then.

In a plane <12 pounds gas is still impracticle. The Zenoah engines are really lacking in power in the <30CC engines. They are only good for scale flight like a Steerman or something like that.
The ZDZ 40 is probably the most powerful and compact alternatives out there. It will barely fit into the cowl of a widebody 2M pattern plane.

Hmmm...

A BCMA electronic ignition SPE 26 cc gasser is only 34 oz all up weight. Turning a 18x8 prop at 8-9k rpm. Cheaper fuel, nice big prop, no cleanup.... Hmmm.

I don't know, but going gas sounds pretty good to me. Anybody want to buy a Saito 100?

Dont forget to look into the GGL (2:1 Gas+Glow) fuel they are messing with in the Engines Conversion forum.

Take ALL the ignition parts off the engine, screw a glowplug adaptor into the spark hole, and run higher power than gas without the glow mess, and without the gas ignition parts weight.

More Power, Less weight, No Radio Interference, less Size, than gas
cheaper & cleaner than glow.

I have flown Gas and Glow now for 4 yrs total. I have a BCMA 26cc / Brilleli 25cc / 2 Brison 40 cc / 1 50cc Brison / Saito 100 / Saito 91 / OS 120 Magnum 91 / Magnum 61 / Os 46fx / OS 91FX. All Work great and run well. I have started switching to GAS now that they have gotten smaller and lighter... Glow has it's place if you want lightness and Power... But the gas engines are so much less hastel... Planes Ultimate / WACO Biplane / Shoestring racer / Gee Bee / DR-1 Fokker... If you go gas you won't go back...

planning my first gas plane thinking the BCMA -26 looked pretty good for the price and weight there was a comparison photo to a sato 125 there wasn't much differance in size so I am thinking of putting it in a TF P-47

I have a 1/7 Top Flite F4-U Corsair in the "to build" que. I have an OS .90 for it, but am now seriously considering the new Zenoah G-20.

I love gas!

Dr.1

Gas Is definately easier than glow in some respects.

I got my first Gasser a few months back, a 34% Extra 300L with a 3W 106 Competition Series. The engine itself is really easy to operate. Fuel it up, choke on, ign off, few flips till you feel it get wet. Ign On, Choke on, Idle, 4 flips to pop. Choke off, ign on, idle, 3-4 flips to start. No run up necessary, fire and fly.

All gas engines are pretty well the same to maintain. Carry an extra spark plug for singles, and 2 for twins. an allen wrench to tighten prop bolts and a charger to charge your ign battery. No glow plugs, no starter, no ignitors, no clean up after it breaks in.

It's great for the bigger planes, but as mentioned above, the power to weight ratio is not wonderful until you can get to 40cc's or better. Otherwise in a smaller plane they're kind of heavy and underpowered. They are good for a certain niche in the small plane world, and that is scale flight. I can see stuffing the new Zenoah, or any of the other small gassers into a piper cub or stearman. You'd get awesome gas mileage, and less mess. Other than that, it will be hard to get a really well flying plane, compared to glow.

Cheers